It is currently Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:25 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:55 pm
Posts: 5229
Interesting decision

********************************

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The Trump administration's decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census "threatens the very foundation of our democratic system" because it would cause a significant undercount of immigrants and Latinos that could distort the distribution of congressional seats, a U.S. judge said Wednesday.

Judge Richard Seeborg said the commerce secretary's decision to add the question was arbitrary and capricious and would violate a constitutional requirement that the census count everyone in the country.

"The record in this case has clearly established that including the citizenship question on the 2020 census is fundamentally counterproductive to the goal of obtaining accurate citizenship data about the public," Seeborg said.

Seeborg became the second judge to declare the move illegal, so the effect of his decision is limited. A federal judge in New York had previously blocked the administration from adding the question to the population count that occurs every 10 years, and the U.S. Supreme Court last month agreed to review that decision.


The ruling in California, however, differed from the January decision by U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman in a significant way. Furman also found the question violated administrative requirements, but he rejected an argument that it violated the Constitution.

Seeborg found a constitutional violation, which could present another issue for the U.S. Supreme Court to consider if federal officials appeal his decision.

An email to the U.S. Department of Justice seeking comment on the ruling was not immediately returned.

Seeborg's decision came in lawsuits by California and several cities in the state that asserted the citizenship question was politically motivated and should be kept off the census.

"Justice has prevailed for each and every Californian who should raise their hands to be counted in the 2020 census without being discouraged by a citizenship question," state Attorney General Xavier Becerra said in a statement.

California argued that the question would cost it a substantial amount of money and at least one congressional seat by reducing the percentage of Latinos and immigrants who respond to the survey. It said that would lead to an undercount in the state with a substantial number of people from both groups.


Census numbers are used to determine states' distribution of congressional seats and billions of dollars in federal funding.

The Justice Department had argued that census officials take steps such as making in-person follow-up visits to get an accurate count. Households that skip the citizenship question but otherwise fill out a substantial portion of the questionnaire would still be counted, Justice Department attorneys said in court documents.

The Commerce Department announced the addition of a citizenship question a year ago, saying the Justice Department asked for it and it would improve enforcement of a 1965 law meant to protect minority voting rights.

The move sparked an outcry from Democrats, who said it would disproportionately affect states favoring their party. People were last asked whether they were U.S. citizens in the 1950 census.

Seeborg rejected the claim that the citizenship question stemmed from a request by the Justice Department, calling that a "pretext" for the real reason to add it.

He cited an email from Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross to a Commerce Department official nearly a year before the question was announced, in which Ross said he was "mystified" why nothing had been done in response to his "months old request that we include the citizenship question."


"What ensued was a cynical search to find some reason, any reason, or an agency request to justify that preordained result," the judge said.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 pm
Posts: 5154
So basically California wants congressional seats for people here illegally.

What a shocker... :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3587
It was basically a political question and I think the Judge ruled correctly. The Constitution says to count everyone and in the past it has counted none citizens ( like slaves) that have benefited only the slave holding states.

_________________
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them."
--George Bush


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:10 am
Posts: 754
jebrick wrote:
It was basically a political question and I think the Judge ruled correctly. The Constitution says to count everyone and in the past it has counted none citizens ( like slaves) that have benefited only the slave holding states.


This is 3/5ths of a good post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1429
jebrick wrote:
It was basically a political question and I think the Judge ruled correctly. The Constitution says to count everyone and in the past it has counted none citizens ( like slaves) that have benefited only the slave holding states.


The precedent this sets is that any question on the census outside of how many live in the household would be unconstitutional. The citizenship question itself doesn’t prevent non citizens from being counted.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3587
SteelPro wrote:
jebrick wrote:
It was basically a political question and I think the Judge ruled correctly. The Constitution says to count everyone and in the past it has counted none citizens ( like slaves) that have benefited only the slave holding states.


The precedent this sets is that any question on the census outside of how many live in the household would be unconstitutional. The citizenship question itself doesn’t prevent non citizens from being counted.



Either you want a strict reading of the Constitution or not. If this is not to your liking, change the Constitution so that non-citizens are counted as 3/5 of a person. I am perfectly fine with that. They have to have infrastructure to support them and not all non-citizens are illegals.

Other than the # in household, all of the other questions are data for the grist. None of them are needed at all and I think the only one required to be answered is the # in household ( although it has been many many years since I was a census taker).

_________________
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them."
--George Bush


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1429
jebrick wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
jebrick wrote:
It was basically a political question and I think the Judge ruled correctly. The Constitution says to count everyone and in the past it has counted none citizens ( like slaves) that have benefited only the slave holding states.


The precedent this sets is that any question on the census outside of how many live in the household would be unconstitutional. The citizenship question itself doesn’t prevent non citizens from being counted.



Either you want a strict reading of the Constitution or not. If this is not to your liking, change the Constitution so that non-citizens are counted as 3/5 of a person. I am perfectly fine with that. They have to have infrastructure to support them and not all non-citizens are illegals.

Other than the # in household, all of the other questions are data for the grist. None of them are needed at all and I think the only one required to be answered is the # in household ( although it has been many many years since I was a census taker).


If none of the questions specific to demographics are required to be answered then what is the issue with asking a citizenship question too?

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:45 pm
Posts: 15421


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:55 pm
Posts: 5229
So what is the downside to asking this question?
Like, what does it hurt to ask? People can always lie or refuse....

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:08 pm
Posts: 7559
Substitute muslim with jew in that video and see what happens.

But I find the histrionics and fear ironically funny since she's pretty much describing evangelical christians and their 'communities.' And who are the ones that go around the world to spread the word of the christian god? Looking to convert non believers?

But I know this country is christian, so fuck muslims, right?

As far as asking the citizen question? It seems immigration is the biggest "national emergency" we have today. All focus must be directed at expelling anybody here illegally. Meanwhile, billions of dollars are being stolen, social safety nets are being removed, the environment is being destroyed, and division is being sown by politicians and media alike. But hey. We need to know who is a citizen and who isn't. And you'd be naive to think that the question isn't meant to be used by ICE to go round up more women and children or to deny money to communities that desperately need it for actual citizens. Sure. They don't have to check the box. What do you think happens when someone doesn't check the box where there is a large hispanic community? More raids, but I know many here like that idea.

And fyi. I know undocumented immigrants. The last thing they want is a spotlight. Voting or checking or not checking the box that says non-citizen will just bring the law down on them. The form will not be filled out. Period, giving a false count even for legal immigrants.

Xenophobia is alive and well. The posted video is proof. If anything is going to bring the american empire down, it's going to come from internal deterioration. Like every other empire that has existed. And the steps are already being taken.

_________________
"I wish Fraudlin would get testicular cancer and die after he watches me anally penetrate his wife."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:45 pm
Posts: 15421
Has nothing to do with religion. You're free to keep thinking that to perpetuate you agenda if you like.

Quote:
Missouri has no illegals; go figure.. shouldn't the other states do the same? Missouri's approach to the problem of illegal immigration appears to be more advanced, sophisticated, strict and effective than anything to date in Arizona . Does the White House appreciate what Missouri has done? So, why doesn't Missouri receive attention? Answer: There are no illegals in Missouri to demonstrate. (And the Media doesn't want to publicize that fact!)

The "Show Me" state has again shown us how it should be done. There needs to be more publicity and exposure regarding what Missouri has done. Please pass this around.

In 2007, Missouri placed on the ballot a proposed constitutional amendment designating English as the official language of Missouri In November, 2008, nearly 90% voted in favor! Thus, English became the official language for ALL governmental activity in Missouri . No individual has the right to demand government services in a language OTHER than English.

In 2008, a measure was passed that required the Missouri Highway Patrol and other law enforcement officials to verify the immigration status of any person arrested, and inform federal authorities if the person is found to be in Missouri illegally. Missouri law enforcement officers receive specific training with respect to enforcement of federal immigration laws.

In Missouri, illegal immigrants do NOT have access to taxpayer benefits such as food stamps or health care through Missouri Health NET.

In 2009, a measure was passed that ensures Missouri 's public institutions of higher education do NOT award financial aid to individuals who are illegally in the United States .

In Missouri all post-secondary institutions of higher education are required to annually certify to the Missouri Dept. of Higher Education that they have NOT knowingly awarded financial aid to students who are unlawfully present in the United States .



It is important to remember, Missouri has been far more proactive in addressing this horrific problem. Missouri has made it clear that illegal immigrants are NOT WELCOME in the state and they will NOT receive public benefits at the expense of Missouri taxpayers.


ImageImage
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3587
All the while, the Missouri farmers benefit from having illegal migrate workers pick their crops. Best of both worlds. Feel good about keeping those nasty people out while looking the other way while employing them for cheaper apples.

The issue at the border, currently is not people seeking work but people looking to migrate to the US. Looking for refugee status. Increase the number of judges that hear these cases and it will clear up. Improve conditions in their countries and it will clear things up.

_________________
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them."
--George Bush


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:48 am
Posts: 411
The Real Problem I have with all of this..

1. We have US Veterans living on the street with huge problems and a broken down VA system.. and the American people are fine with that.

2. We have a bunch of illegal fucks getting into the country and they receive free great medical care, get 3 hot's and a cot don't pay taxes EVER..The Left Wingnut's are thrilled this Is happening because the know its a Vote for them.. All of this is on the American taxpayer to fund..

3. if the roles were reversed and they illegals were voting R. The border would be closed up tighter than a ticks ass.. and you would be able to see the wall from outer space..

Bottom line.. America needs to step back.. Fix our own fucking problems first then worry about people outside our borders.. Maybe in their next life they will be born in Merica..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:48 am
Posts: 411
jebrick wrote:
All the while, the Missouri farmers benefit from having illegal migrate workers pick their crops. Best of both worlds. Feel good about keeping those nasty people out while looking the other way while employing them for cheaper apples.

The issue at the border, currently is not people seeking work but people looking to migrate to the US. Looking for refugee status. Increase the number of judges that hear these cases and it will clear up. Improve conditions in their countries and it will clear things up.


They are looking to get a free handout from America..instead of staying in the shithole the came from and making it better, they would rather come and make our country into a shithole like they just left.

Have you been watching the news? do you know how many judges it would take to hear the 100k plus cases that are sitting at the El Paso area alone.. I live in a border town (not by choice) I cant wait to get the fuck away from this crap..


as for the farmers benefiting from the cheap labor I have a quick solution.. if you are on government welfare or food stamps (in the local area).. Congratulation's.. your picking apples to earn that check.. Win Win for the taxpayers.

Yep sorry... just a bit salty today.. I guess I am in a fuck it mood today. along with sick and tired of hearing about the poor poor people at the border...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3587
Tundralag wrote:
jebrick wrote:
All the while, the Missouri farmers benefit from having illegal migrate workers pick their crops. Best of both worlds. Feel good about keeping those nasty people out while looking the other way while employing them for cheaper apples.

The issue at the border, currently is not people seeking work but people looking to migrate to the US. Looking for refugee status. Increase the number of judges that hear these cases and it will clear up. Improve conditions in their countries and it will clear things up.


They are looking to get a free handout from America..instead of staying in the shithole the came from and making it better, they would rather come and make our country into a shithole like they just left.

Have you been watching the news? do you know how many judges it would take to hear the 100k plus cases that are sitting at the El Paso area alone.. I live in a border town (not by choice) I cant wait to get the fuck away from this crap..


as for the farmers benefiting from the cheap labor I have a quick solution.. if you are on government welfare or food stamps (in the local area).. Congratulation's.. your picking apples to earn that check.. Win Win for the taxpayers.

Yep sorry... just a bit salty today.. I guess I am in a fuck it mood today. along with sick and tired of hearing about the poor poor people at the border...


Just like the Irish before them. Leaving their shithole country with hope for something better. Those fucking micks.

Doubling the # of judges would be something rather than nothing.

Enforcing the e-check would be a good step to stopping illegals coming to work. Who would oppose that? Why the Agriculture Lobby and the Hotel/Hospitably lobby. Americans want a living wage and that is not going to work for your cheap crops and clean bed sheets. Follow up on which states/Representatives have blocked e-check in the past. Why Kevin McCarthy comes up big. I'll bet he is very anti-immigrate but he represents a farming district and they need cheap labor.

Now enforcing e-check would drastically cause food shortages and drive up the prices of the crops. Perhaps double or triple. And the hospitality industry would have to pay even more money to get someone to clean the toilets.

_________________
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them."
--George Bush


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:19 am
Posts: 11171
Tundralag wrote:
jebrick wrote:
All the while, the Missouri farmers benefit from having illegal migrate workers pick their crops. Best of both worlds. Feel good about keeping those nasty people out while looking the other way while employing them for cheaper apples.

The issue at the border, currently is not people seeking work but people looking to migrate to the US. Looking for refugee status. Increase the number of judges that hear these cases and it will clear up. Improve conditions in their countries and it will clear things up.


They are looking to get a free handout from America..instead of staying in the shithole the came from and making it better, they would rather come and make our country into a shithole like they just left.

Have you been watching the news? do you know how many judges it would take to hear the 100k plus cases that are sitting at the El Paso area alone.. I live in a border town (not by choice) I cant wait to get the fuck away from this crap..


as for the farmers benefiting from the cheap labor I have a quick solution.. if you are on government welfare or food stamps (in the local area).. Congratulation's.. your picking apples to earn that check.. Win Win for the taxpayers.

Yep sorry... just a bit salty today.. I guess I am in a fuck it mood today. along with sick and tired of hearing about the poor poor people at the border...


Man, you are salty. Looking for a free hand out? I don't think that's what's motivating fleeing the conditions in these gang dominated neighborhoods. Were you to be in their position and living in those neighborhoods, what would happen is that you would be murdered and your precious family with you at the drop of a hat for attempting to make your neighborhood better. Were you in their position, you would not have an arsenal nor the money to afford one and even if you did, you will only be able to kill so many gang members before you get murdered.

These places are basically failed states. If was in their shoes with my five year old, I'd be risking it all to get into America, too. Because my five year old matters more to me than you or your fucking country—if you get my drift.

I am not saying we should not control our borders or have a serious discussion about who should be let into the country. But your characterization is, shall we say, a little too salty.

Now, if you want to arm these folks and send some special forces with them back down to the southern hemisphere for some hawt extrajudicial action, I don't know that I would mind that solution.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong
Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:48 am
Posts: 411
Still Lit wrote:
Tundralag wrote:
jebrick wrote:
All the while, the Missouri farmers benefit from having illegal migrate workers pick their crops. Best of both worlds. Feel good about keeping those nasty people out while looking the other way while employing them for cheaper apples.

The issue at the border, currently is not people seeking work but people looking to migrate to the US. Looking for refugee status. Increase the number of judges that hear these cases and it will clear up. Improve conditions in their countries and it will clear things up.


They are looking to get a free handout from America..instead of staying in the shithole the came from and making it better, they would rather come and make our country into a shithole like they just left.

Have you been watching the news? do you know how many judges it would take to hear the 100k plus cases that are sitting at the El Paso area alone.. I live in a border town (not by choice) I cant wait to get the fuck away from this crap..


as for the farmers benefiting from the cheap labor I have a quick solution.. if you are on government welfare or food stamps (in the local area).. Congratulation's.. your picking apples to earn that check.. Win Win for the taxpayers.

Yep sorry... just a bit salty today.. I guess I am in a fuck it mood today. along with sick and tired of hearing about the poor poor people at the border...


Man, you are salty. Looking for a free hand out? I don't think that's what's motivating fleeing the conditions in these gang dominated neighborhoods. Were you to be in their position and living in those neighborhoods, what would happen is that you would be murdered and your precious family with you at the drop of a hat for attempting to make your neighborhood better. Were you in their position, you would not have an arsenal nor the money to afford one and even if you did, you will only be able to kill so many gang members before you get murdered.

These places are basically failed states. If was in their shoes with my five year old, I'd be risking it all to get into America, too. Because my five year old matters more to me than you or your fucking country—if you get my drift.

I am not saying we should not control our borders or have a serious discussion about who should be let into the country. But your characterization is, shall we say, a little too salty.

Now, if you want to arm these folks and send some special forces with them back down to the southern hemisphere for some hawt extrajudicial action, I don't know that I would mind that solution.


Not as Salty today... However... I really don't give a shit about there situation.. It wasn't always that way.. but somehow they let it get that way.. now we should bring them here so we get that way as well.. while getting the life sucked out of us tax paying citizens.. sorry. fuck them.. Lots of worse places.. trust me i been there..
as far as going down there and starting more shit.. sorry i am just a little sick of sending our sons and daughters into harms way to dig some other fucks out of a mess they created..

Look at the these caravans coming north.. if they really hated the country they were living in and wanted to be in the USA, one would think they would be flying the stars and bars yelling usa usa.. but no they are flying the flag of whatever shit hole they are coming from and then chucking rocks at our border agents.. yep good quality people i want to let in...

People need to stop the bleeding heart bullshit and protect whats ours.. and what will be our grand kids one day...

See not as Salty today.. i am getting better.. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:11 am
Posts: 78
tighter than a ticks ass. Man, now that right there is funny. Made Old Milwaukee come old my nose and I had to clean-up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:45 pm
Posts: 15421
So, go work in the agave fields for peanuts and try to get governmental assistance from Mexico... Then try to get citizenship... let us know how that works out for you.

If socialism is such a great alternative to the evil greed mongering Capitalism why aren't the folks at the border running to Venezuela?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:46 pm
Posts: 1201
SteelPro wrote:
If none of the questions specific to demographics are required to be answered then what is the issue with asking a citizenship question too?


Quote:
So what is the downside to asking this question?
Like, what does it hurt to ask? People can always lie or refuse....


The goal of the census is to get a full and accurate count of all people in the US. The citizenship question, especially in this climate, would discourage non-citizens from participating out of fear how the information would be used, or if it would eventually be used against them in a deportation proceeding, etc. Research supports this. https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... lternative

Also, lying on the census is a crime.

Quote:
The Real Problem I have with all of this..

1. We have US Veterans living on the street with huge problems and a broken down VA system.. and the American people are fine with that.

2. We have a bunch of illegal fucks getting into the country and they receive free great medical care, get 3 hot's and a cot don't pay taxes EVER..The Left Wingnut's are thrilled this Is happening because the know its a Vote for them.. All of this is on the American taxpayer to fund..

3. if the roles were reversed and they illegals were voting R. The border would be closed up tighter than a ticks ass.. and you would be able to see the wall from outer space..

Bottom line.. America needs to step back.. Fix our own fucking problems first then worry about people outside our borders.. Maybe in their next life they will be born in Merica..


What never made sense to me in this whole immigration debate is that providing illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship is a win win for everyone and addresses most of your concerns.

We need to cut spending, generate more tax revenue, or both to take care of all of our priorities (including vets). How do you generate tax revenue? Well, one way is to find a new tax base. One such tax base is undocumented immigrants. According to one study (https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/bl ... itizenship), this would generate an extra $184 billion in tax revenue and boost GDP by $1.4 trillion over 10 years. Another base is to get rid of church tax exemptions, but I digress.

1. So you want to help the veterans? Let's spend some of that $184 billion generated on doing so. You want the illegal immigrants to pay their share? Let them become citizens, subject to Obamacare rules and regulations. Health care costs should decrease if more people are paying into the system.

2. Illegal immigrants/non-citizens cannot vote. You've been sold a myth if you think there's any evidence to support this happening on a widespread basis. It just doesn't happen.

3. You may have missed it, but the GOP controlled the presidency and Congress from 2016-2018, so it's not on the Democrats that the border is "open."

The only reason the GOP balks at pathway to citizenship is because they do fear that allowing non-citizens to become citizens would lead to more votes for Dems. And that's a sad state of affairs, in my opinion. Do what best helps the country, and worry about winning later.

In other words, the GOP opposes $184 billion in extra revenue which could be used to build a wall, to help veterans, etc all out of fear that they would lose elections because of the new eligible voting population.

Quote:
If socialism is such a great alternative to the evil greed mongering Capitalism why aren't the folks at the border running to Venezuela?


Corruption sunk Venezuela, not socialism.

_________________
Fire Tomlin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:08 pm
Posts: 7559
Great Post Steelknife. I was also going to say the same thing about socialism, but the rightwingnut propaganda machine wants everyone to believe socialism is evil and leads to corruption which leads to a failed state. Never mind we have plenty of corruption right here in the good ole US of A. Meanwhile, people are flocking to Europe from all over to where there is lots of "socialism" in their capitalism. But when you believe in social darwinism, you need backs to step on to succeed. It's a zero sum game and if everyone wins, there can't be super winners and a lot of losers. I call it an artificially contrived crab effect.

Also, although many think undocumented immigrants that become naturalized vote democrat, the real reason most conservatives don't want immigrants is because they are either i. racist, or ii, don't want the culture south of the border invading and "infecting" white protestant america. Law and order is the smoke screen to legitimize and rationalize their bigotry. Just listen to tucker carlson and a bunch of others on fauxnooz. And if it really is about law and order, there'd be a fuck load more white collar criminals in jail that cause more financial destruction than immigrants collecting welfare checks. And can't the government walk and chew gum at the same time? Blaming immigrants, refugees, and asylum seekers for the VA mess is a logical fallacy.

_________________
"I wish Fraudlin would get testicular cancer and die after he watches me anally penetrate his wife."


Last edited by COR-TEN on Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 13491
COR-TEN wrote:
...everyone to believe socialism is evil and leads to corruption which leads to a failed state.


Or maybe some people actually learned economics and know socialism is highly correlated with higher unemployment and lower wages. AND they understand the much higher tax burdens, on everyone, in those countries.

COR-TEN wrote:
...the real reason most conservatives don't want immigrants is because they are either i. racist, or ii, don't want the culture south of the border invading and "infecting" white protestant america.


Or they believe that people coming here illegally further burden social services and welfare. But make it about racism because you don't have a rational argument to put forward - that's straight out of the regressive playbook.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:19 am
Posts: 11171
Kodiak wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
...everyone to believe socialism is evil and leads to corruption which leads to a failed state.


Or maybe some people actually learned economics and know socialism is highly correlated with higher unemployment and lower wages. AND they understand the much higher tax burdens, on everyone, in those countries.

COR-TEN wrote:
...the real reason most conservatives don't want immigrants is because they are either i. racist, or ii, don't want the culture south of the border invading and "infecting" white protestant america.


Or they believe that people coming here illegally further burden social services and welfare. But make it about racism because you don't have a rational argument to put forward - that's straight out of the regressive playbook.


I don't know about "most" "conservatives," but COR-TEN's i and ii is definitely true of a lot of people. What you say is also true of a lot of folks. And, of course, all three reasons are held simultaneously by many.

I mean, let's face it, there are a lot of racist motherfuckers everywhere in every country and culture. I grew up in TX and still visit family there. I am here to tell you there are a lot of racist assholes in Texas. A LOT. Of course, there are also many, many more awesome Texans, many of whom are committed conservatives who don't have a racist bone in them.

But I invite you, Kodiak, to go rent a room at a motel in Vider, TX. You stay there for three weeks. And then let's see if you think COR-TEN is simply and totally wrong.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong
Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:58 pm
Posts: 985
In 1900, most of our ancestors came here from shithole countries like Ireland and Hungary. For the life of me, I can't figure out why it's different now. Everyone's got to have someone to look down on, and everyone's got to have a boogie man, I guess. I also have some guesses as to how uneducated whites were duped into believing that immigrants were the cause of all their problems, instead of shysters like our President.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1429
SteelKnife wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
If none of the questions specific to demographics are required to be answered then what is the issue with asking a citizenship question too?


Quote:
So what is the downside to asking this question?
Like, what does it hurt to ask? People can always lie or refuse....


The goal of the census is to get a full and accurate count of all people in the US. The citizenship question, especially in this climate, would discourage non-citizens from participating out of fear how the information would be used, or if it would eventually be used against them in a deportation proceeding, etc. Research supports this. https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... lternative

Also, lying on the census is a crime.

Quote:
The Real Problem I have with all of this..

1. We have US Veterans living on the street with huge problems and a broken down VA system.. and the American people are fine with that.

2. We have a bunch of illegal fucks getting into the country and they receive free great medical care, get 3 hot's and a cot don't pay taxes EVER..The Left Wingnut's are thrilled this Is happening because the know its a Vote for them.. All of this is on the American taxpayer to fund..

3. if the roles were reversed and they illegals were voting R. The border would be closed up tighter than a ticks ass.. and you would be able to see the wall from outer space..

Bottom line.. America needs to step back.. Fix our own fucking problems first then worry about people outside our borders.. Maybe in their next life they will be born in Merica..


What never made sense to me in this whole immigration debate is that providing illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship is a win win for everyone and addresses most of your concerns.

We need to cut spending, generate more tax revenue, or both to take care of all of our priorities (including vets). How do you generate tax revenue? Well, one way is to find a new tax base. One such tax base is undocumented immigrants. According to one study (https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/bl ... itizenship), this would generate an extra $184 billion in tax revenue and boost GDP by $1.4 trillion over 10 years. Another base is to get rid of church tax exemptions, but I digress.

1. So you want to help the veterans? Let's spend some of that $184 billion generated on doing so. You want the illegal immigrants to pay their share? Let them become citizens, subject to Obamacare rules and regulations. Health care costs should decrease if more people are paying into the system.

2. Illegal immigrants/non-citizens cannot vote. You've been sold a myth if you think there's any evidence to support this happening on a widespread basis. It just doesn't happen.

3. You may have missed it, but the GOP controlled the presidency and Congress from 2016-2018, so it's not on the Democrats that the border is "open."

The only reason the GOP balks at pathway to citizenship is because they do fear that allowing non-citizens to become citizens would lead to more votes for Dems. And that's a sad state of affairs, in my opinion. Do what best helps the country, and worry about winning later.

In other words, the GOP opposes $184 billion in extra revenue which could be used to build a wall, to help veterans, etc all out of fear that they would lose elections because of the new eligible voting population.

Quote:
If socialism is such a great alternative to the evil greed mongering Capitalism why aren't the folks at the border running to Venezuela?


Corruption sunk Venezuela, not socialism.


The problem with a pathway to citizenship for illegals, at least my issue with it, is it incentivises further illegal immigration. Where and how do you draw the line? Or are you all comfortable with any undocumented foreigner being able to come here freely and become a citizen? Personally, my preference is to incentivise LEGAL IMMIGRATION. I'm not heartless. I feel for most the people that want to come here. And I'm fairly welcoming. If we just made legal immigration more feasible I think that would solve a ton of the issues. Right now legal immigration is not feasible for the average person coming from Mexico/Central America.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group