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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Pabst wrote:

My personal solution is that a ref can watch a replay once or twice at full speed. That should allow him to overturn obvious miscalls. If you can't instantly spot the mistake, then play on.



This please. I nominate Pabst to be in charge of the replay booth. He does not have to know the calls but just has to tell them that they have seen enough of the film and the call stands.

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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:14 pm 
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I'm annoyed by the fact that last year they stopped doing the "incontrovertable evidence" standard to overturn calls on the field, and Riveron was judging plays from scratch independent of what the refs called on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
I'm annoyed by the fact that last year they stopped doing the "incontrovertable evidence" standard to overturn calls on the field, and Riveron was judging plays from scratch independent of what the refs called on the field.


And didn't really tell anyone.

I think that's why it was such a collosal failure. Refs in real time are, generally, calling it like everyone sees it. Then you have Riveron coming in to make a judgement call after a frame-by-frame review, often at odds with how everyone saw it at full speed.

I still can't reconcile some of the calls Riveron made because there was no logical consistency. It's really hard to dismiss the possibility he was putting his thumb on the scale.

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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
I'm annoyed by the fact that last year they stopped doing the "incontrovertable evidence" standard to overturn calls on the field, and Riveron was judging plays from scratch independent of what the refs called on the field.


And didn't really tell anyone.


That too. We didn't know that until after the fact, and I find that quite annoying.


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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:14 am 
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Unlike most of you, I watch soccer too, and damn those mother fuckers added replay this year and ruined yet another sport! They where the last hold out, and I thought, since it's an international sport and anal, asshole, retard Americans don't run in, they'd hopefully not add this garbage, but they did and now, much like a catch in football, people don't know what a yellow card, red card, off sides is anymore, they just suddenly don't understand what's going on, they've become like the NFL, clueless and confused and yes..... ANOTHER SPORT RUINED !!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:36 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
Unlike most of you, I watch soccer too, and damn those mother fuckers added replay this year and ruined yet another sport! They where the last hold out, and I thought, since it's an international sport and anal, asshole, retard Americans don't run in, they'd hopefully not add this garbage, but they did and now, much like a catch in football, people don't know what a yellow card, red card, off sides is anymore, they just suddenly don't understand what's going on, they've become like the NFL, clueless and confused and yes..... ANOTHER SPORT RUINED !!!!!


Yeah, but the flip side in soccer is this crap:

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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
Unlike most of you, I watch soccer too, and damn those mother fuckers added replay this year and ruined yet another sport! They where the last hold out, and I thought, since it's an international sport and anal, asshole, retard Americans don't run in, they'd hopefully not add this garbage, but they did and now, much like a catch in football, people don't know what a yellow card, red card, off sides is anymore, they just suddenly don't understand what's going on, they've become like the NFL, clueless and confused and yes..... ANOTHER SPORT RUINED !!!!!


Yeah, but the flip side in soccer is this crap:


I don't care, diving doesn't bother me, it's a tactic, part of the game, like the fake flop to draw the charge in basketball. 90% of the time in soccer, he falls down rolls around and really doesn't get the call, and PLAY GOES ON, uninterrupted. No we'll stop the game for 5 minutes to look at it again. Faking a fall to try and draw a foul is NO BIG DEAL, I never understood why people think it is. If MY TEAM'S GUY dives, and it's clearly a fake dive, and my team get's the call, I AM PROUD OF HIM for making the play in our favor.


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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:16 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
Pabst wrote:

My personal solution is that a ref can watch a replay once or twice at full speed. That should allow him to overturn obvious miscalls. If you can't instantly spot the mistake, then play on.



This please. I nominate Pabst to be in charge of the replay booth. He does not have to know the calls but just has to tell them that they have seen enough of the film and the call stands.


Here's the problem with that: What if the first or second replay doesn't have the best angle? What if they're from the wrong side of the play or whatever, and don't show anything, but there's an angle they didn't get to where it is blatantly obvious?

Then you didn't really solve anything and winning a replay challenge suddenly involved being lucky enough to have the right replay angle shown.

I really don't think there is a perfect system. But then again, the toothpaste is already out of the tube and cutting replay all together is going to create even more controversy every time an obvious call is missed (which will be often).

Basically, the NFL is screwed in that regard. There's no way they can possibly fix this in a way that makes a majority of fans happy, in my opinion. The rule book has gotten entirely too cumbersome and fine grained to expect a referee to be able to call correctly in real time, and the replay system that would be required to make the calls at least closer to being correct is so time consuming, it kills the entertainment of the game. Attempting to find a compromise between the two only moves the needle between the two controversies.


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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:02 am 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
The rule book has gotten entirely too cumbersome and fine grained to expect a referee to be able to call correctly in real time, and the replay system that would be required to make the calls at least closer to being correct is so time consuming, it kills the entertainment of the game.


Taking the rule book and scrapping 50% of it is part of the solution. There are a lot of rules in there that can be dumped and nobody would notice they where gone. A lot of things even "what is a catch" can be simplified to the point that there's nothing to review if they wanted to. I actually think the league and a lot of fan want it the way it is.


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 Post subject: Re: YES! YES! YES!!!!! I LOVE YOU JON GRUDEN!!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:55 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
The rule book has gotten entirely too cumbersome and fine grained to expect a referee to be able to call correctly in real time, and the replay system that would be required to make the calls at least closer to being correct is so time consuming, it kills the entertainment of the game.


Taking the rule book and scrapping 50% of it is part of the solution. There are a lot of rules in there that can be dumped and nobody would notice they where gone. A lot of things even "what is a catch" can be simplified to the point that there's nothing to review if they wanted to. I actually think the league and a lot of fan want it the way it is.


That's not true. There will always be gray area in the catch rules. Always areas of debate. Even if you made the rule as simple as "Two feet in bounds, control of the ball". Well, what is control? If you even simplified that to mean "two hands on the ball", well what about one handed catches? You're going to legislate those out of the game? How do you definitely know when a player has control or not?

You don't, and you never will, which is exactly why the "catch" debate will never be solved now that this box has been opened.

Which means, yes, there will always be things to review should they choose to keep replay in, no matter how simple you make the rules. Football is a subjective game and will always have gray area, which by extension, means it will always have controversy going forward, no matter how much you change, or even eliminate replay. That part of the game is here to stay.


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I actually think the league and a lot of fan want it the way it is.


So you think the league likes all this controversy that just happens to be happening while ratings are taking a nose dive? Even if you took the "All publicity is good publicity" stance, that still doesn't stand up to any amount of logical thinking whatsoever. Fans are obviously livid and tired of debate over the most basic elements of the game continually being the center of attention. That's the real reasons ratings are down. It's not kneeling for an anthem, it's not players getting in trouble off the field, it's the fact that the league can't even manage to define what their game is actually supposed to be anymore.

There is zero chance the league "wants" that (otherwise, why would they keep changing the rules everytime there's public outcry over them?), and I sure as hell don't know of any fans that do. I have yet to see one fan say that they enjoy all this controversy over the rules, and I'd love to hear where you saw or heard a fan say they did. Though I suspect it's some theory you just concocted yourself without any basis whatsoever.


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