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 Post subject: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:55 pm 
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This is getting way too Orwellian:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03- ... le-collect

This is not a right-left issue, it's a privacy and dignity issue and a concentration of power issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Not much difference between this and Equafax in their business models

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Equifax should have been sued out of business.

BTW, what company in 2018 still has "fax" in their business name? Was "telegraph" taken?

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:52 pm 
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It's bullshit, but every user had to agree to the fine print which 99.999999% don't read and just blindly agree to. I'm not the least bit surprised by what they've done because they had to monetize their platform some how and clearly "big data" was the way they would do it.

Where they could get fucked legally issue is not that they have the data on the user (Because this was agreed to when they set up accounts), but that they used the user to get the data on their friends, family, and colleagues (Unwilling participants). The latter is bullshit, the former was agreed to by signing up for the service.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:15 am 
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I have dealt with Facebook API in the past and this is their business model. A company can pay money at various levels to have access to more and more data. Any time you use a button to log into Facebook from another page or play one of their games or take a survey, the company gets permissions to plunder all of your data and all of your friends. Even if you are careful with your FB usage all it takes is one of your contacts to be stupid and you are vacuumed up. That is why 270,000 people who took the survey turned into 50M people of data.

The only thing that puts them above companies like Equafax and TransAmerica is that FB has a product they they are trying to sell you. For the others you are the product only.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Fuckers.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/growth ... fr4ODLXM7l

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:46 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:


Why does that quote piss you off?

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:16 pm 
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I'll let a former Facebook exec explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMotykw0SIk

BTW this relates to your signature, he's admitting Facebook is bluepilling society.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:35 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
I'll let a former Facebook exec explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMotykw0SIk

BTW this relates to your signature, he's admitting Facebook is bluepilling society.


I'm not watching the video. The quote basically says there will be bad people who use social media for evil but that shouldn't stop them from connecting people. What's wrong with that?

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:27 am 
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I like it that Facebook now admits that "whoops!!" everyone's private data was scraped by 3rd parties. They do not point out that it is their business model for the last 10 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:09 am 
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Shocking isn't it? who would have thought a massive company with a free platform would be doing something to make a profit.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:04 am 
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It is shocking because people have final noticed. Not that they really care. The next insta-snap-chat-book photo with a cute kitten or big breasted model will distract.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:45 pm 
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R S wrote:
Shocking isn't it? who would have thought a massive company with a free platform would be doing something to make a profit.


I just laugh. The whole "corporate greed" thing is largely based on the fact many people think they are getting gouged (because they don't understand economics or the definition of "gouged") at, basically, any price for the service. But they LOVE Google and Facebook because they get a lot for "free".

I do think Google and Facebook, and probably Amazon, should be broken up. Now I'm a free markets guy, but that theory is based on assumptions that don't always exist in pure form in the real world (such as limited barriers to entry, fully informed & rational consumers, etc). On the other hand. Facebook trounced a couple other social media before it and may not be entirely secure on its perch. Google crushed most the other search engines, and while far and away the most popular there are still a lot of options. Apple is doing very well, obviously (after Jobs came back to rescue it), but Google & Android is still eating their lunch.

When you see Google, Facebook and Amazon leveraging their platform into other verticals, that's when we need to take notice. My biggest concern is their ability to essentially make the news, picking winners & losers based on what they deem is real or fake. Very liberal organizations that can have a profound impact on elections if left unchecked.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:51 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
It is shocking because people have final noticed. Not that they really care. The next insta-snap-chat-book photo with a cute kitten or big breasted model will distract.


But it's probably a good thing to get ads targeted to you that are very relevant and of interest.

People are just alarmed to discover that same technology can (and has) been used to influence and shape what you know and believe. But truthfully that's only an issue if one chooses to be lazy and ignorant and cocoon themselves inside a bubble.

Of course, the above assumes Google search isn't driven by an agenda....if, for example, they were to filter any result from the "lukewarm" climate change crowd then we'd all be furiously peddling our bicycles a lot more. Although, technically, that wouldn't prevent one from reading the papers that did result and seeing the science for what it actually is. But most people don't have the training/background to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 pm 
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I agree with Kodiak. A breakup is better than regulation. Any regulation that Zuck is suggesting will benefit him and hurt competitors and he has paid off a number of reps with contributions. It's the same as Dodd-Frank...it benefitted the investment banks after they caused the crisis. Would have been better to break them up. Too big to fail is too big to exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Any regulation that Zuck is suggesting will benefit him and hurt competitors and he has paid off a number of reps with contributions.


And it was a very self-serving admission. "Regulate me, and it will only hurt my competition....[don't regulate me and it will only help my bottom line because I can have no competition]"

Years ago in grad school we studied Amazon. The takeaway was that market is essentially only big enough for one player, meaning economy of scale/size is such a huge advantage that no one else would be able to compete. I don't think the argument is terribly different for Google and Facebook.

Or you can look at the PC industry - essentially just MS and Apple OS, with a little linux for the rebels. I don't think that's been much of a problem. But the difference with Google, Facebook and Twitter is the very real danger that they can censor views they disagree with. That is their right as private companies....but now maybe this is a place to [legitimately] talk about public utilities and an open internet.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:33 pm 
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I agree. If Ma Bell and Standard Oil could be broken up so can these tech behemoths. Regulation is what they actually want.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
I agree. If Ma Bell and Standard Oil could be broken up so can these tech behemoths. Regulation is what they actually want.


I bet Google knows people better than they know themselves. Just think about all the services you're using. The average person who takes no steps to privacy - Google probably has an almost 24/7 picture of that person's life and people around them.

Even if you don't sign in to Chrome and give Google basically your entire web history (including postings on Steelerfury!), if you're not using a VPN they probably already know your IP from a variety of other sources and thus can still piece together your entire web history.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:46 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Any regulation that Zuck is suggesting will benefit him and hurt competitors and he has paid off a number of reps with contributions.


And it was a very self-serving admission. "Regulate me, and it will only hurt my competition....[don't regulate me and it will only help my bottom line because I can have no competition]"

Years ago in grad school we studied Amazon. The takeaway was that market is essentially only big enough for one player, meaning economy of scale/size is such a huge advantage that no one else would be able to compete. I don't think the argument is terribly different for Google and Facebook.

Or you can look at the PC industry - essentially just MS and Apple OS, with a little linux for the rebels. I don't think that's been much of a problem. But the difference with Google, Facebook and Twitter is the very real danger that they can censor views they disagree with. That is their right as private companies....but now maybe this is a place to [legitimately] talk about public utilities and an open internet.


I would disagree in the point that Google and Facebook are selling information ( like Equafax and TransAmerica) and eye space (advertisements). All of them use you to get your clicks to sell your information to other retailers. They are like television that can look and listen into your house.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:52 am 
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How exactly would you break up facebook? I can see how that could be done with Google and Amazon. They have multiple business lines/products. Although honestly, some of these big tech companies have actually brought competition to other industries that previously looked very much like monopolies and duopolies.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:29 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
How exactly would you break up facebook?


Basically think of Facebook in terms of connected modules - news, pictures, video, messages and timeline. So we'd say Facebook can be like a hub or UI, but not control any actual content. Then you restrict the amount of user info that can be shared between different apps, that deliver the content, and between apps and Facebook. In this model, Facebook is not a publisher - they don't choose and deliver your news, but rather you choose a provider to generate your news feed.

And when you look at it that way, you also see that Facebook is actually just a combined platform that does have competition. But, like Amazon, there's a huge demand for that integrated platform and market dynamics such that "there can be only one".

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:37 pm 
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While fake news is a big problem, stupid people is a bigger problem.

So I get really concerned when I discussions about how Google, Facebook, etc. should "deal" with fake news.....because it's only ever a problem when people are stupid and lazy, and otherwise sounds suspiciously like an assault on free speech.

What would the criteria be? What if some nobody expressed an opinion that was certifiably wrong (like saying atmospheric CO2 hasn't increased)....does that opinion get effectively erased from the internet? What about someone ranting about astronomically unlikely (but not impossible) threats from GMOs? Basically disaster porn - do we delete that from the internet or tag it with a science fiction label?

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:33 am 
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Breakup is not the answer for these companies. How will breaking up a company that collects and sells your private data help? Just spreads the data out to more DB opening up more vectors of attack. This is not AT&T tht can be broken into baby bells. Each with their own physical infrastructure to control. This is about data collection and then the selling of you. Regulation of how they use your private data should be the answer. This encompasses companies like Equafax and Transamaerica that sell your financial data.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:58 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
This is about data collection and then the selling of you. Regulation of how they use your private data should be the answer.


But that alone might not be enough to ensure privacy. If you regulate/ban the selling of private data, that just makes Google and Facebook that much more valuable. If you really want to ensure more privacy, you ALSO will have to break-up some of these companies. It's all the different verticals they have that gives them a 24/7 picture of your life. And so if we don't want anyone to have that kind of info, you HAVE to break them up (in addition to regulating how privacy data can be shared).

Sure, Google search would have plenty of information about you. But when combined with Gmail, Chrome and other apps one company now has a much more complete picture of you. Signed into Chrome (or just not using a vpn), Google can basically scrape EVERYTHING you do online.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:11 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
How exactly would you break up facebook?


Basically think of Facebook in terms of connected modules - news, pictures, video, messages and timeline. So we'd say Facebook can be like a hub or UI, but not control any actual content. Then you restrict the amount of user info that can be shared between different apps, that deliver the content, and between apps and Facebook. In this model, Facebook is not a publisher - they don't choose and deliver your news, but rather you choose a provider to generate your news feed.

And when you look at it that way, you also see that Facebook is actually just a combined platform that does have competition. But, like Amazon, there's a huge demand for that integrated platform and market dynamics such that "there can be only one".


So the solution is to outlaw hugely demanded platforms? I find most of this discussion crazy talk. Yes, there has been some misuse of data and some of these companies have been poor stewards of it. But they are solving some incredibly complex problems too and changing the world for the better. Amazon competition isn’t killing retail. It is changing it and forcing the survivors to be far more efficient and thus lowering consumer costs. Giving companies huge amounts of data helps them figure out what you want. I like people that want to give me what I want! The solutions proposed here are the same innovation stifling ideas that always happens when government gets heavy handed with regulating business practices. Regulation should be a light touch not an Fn jack hammer.

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