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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:06 am 
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please tell me of any mlb owner who got financially hosed owning an mlb team..theres no rule in sports saying nutting has to turn a profit every fucking day he owns the team.. sick of the small market bullshit. he knew what he got into buying team..he could god forbid ;lose money for the sake of winning once or twice.. Indians seem to win; tigers; astros' royals...we happen to have pro sports worse owner in cheap bastard nutting. hes making a tidy profit being a cheap bastard. when he does sell if ever he will make tens if not hundreds off millions.. hes a world class asshole.


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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:49 am 
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bam morris wrote:
please tell me of any mlb owner who got financially hosed owning an mlb team..theres no rule in sports saying nutting has to turn a profit every fucking day he owns the team.. sick of the small market bullshit. he knew what he got into buying team..he could god forbid ;lose money for the sake of winning once or twice.. Indians seem to win; tigers; astros' royals...we happen to have pro sports worse owner in cheap bastard nutting. hes making a tidy profit being a cheap bastard. when he does sell if ever he will make tens if not hundreds off millions.. hes a world class asshole.


I'm personally a believer that a business owner has the right turn a profit however he sees fit (so long as he's not breaking any laws or ethical boundaries).

I don't necessarily blame Nutting for gaming the system. I wish he wouldn't do it, but I find it hard to believe that your average person would turn down nearly guaranteed millions of dollars in profit, no matter how rich you are.

I'd prefer the system be fixed so it isn't so easily exploited.

I don't know baseball well enough to say what that fix is, but there has to be something.


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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:04 pm 
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id love a salary cap...but I bet if there was one pirates would not meet it.. they would need a salary basement to make them spend.. id like to think if I was owner my joy would come from competing with the other owners to win rather then worrying bout profit in my bank.. like horse racing. I imagine most owners lose money and enjoy the sport.. George stienbrenner didn't give a shit about money unless he was winning..he may have lost money many years over paying his talent. but recouped it eventually.. nutting is a miser playing the fans for idiots..


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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:51 pm 
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I think a salary cap would be fun to watch only because its existence would call Nutting out on his bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I think a salary cap would be fun to watch only because its existence would call Nutting out on his bullshit.

anything that would tarnish that miser would be welcomed by me..he should be ashamed but hes not.


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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:56 am 
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Yep, as much as Steigerwald railed on Nutting, he is also playing the angle that there nothing Nutting can do and spending more money wouldn't help. BULLSHIT! They had a nice 3 year window with the stars fucking aligned! Bad cubs team, weak NL. Mediocre Cards teams. And they went FUCKING CHEAP!!!! That dickhead left that out of the article. Motherfucker is talking out both sides of his mouth.

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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:07 am 
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bam morris wrote:
id love a salary cap...but I bet if there was one pirates would not meet it.. they would need a salary basement to make them spend.. id like to think if I was owner my joy would come from competing with the other owners to win rather then worrying bout profit in my bank.. like horse racing. I imagine most owners lose money and enjoy the sport.. George stienbrenner didn't give a shit about money unless he was winning..he may have lost money many years over paying his talent. but recouped it eventually.. nutting is a miser playing the fans for idiots..


i don't even want a salary cap. I want a salary basement. make it 115 million. But union Prez Tony Clark is about as good at negotiating as pet rock.

As SteelPro said, tanking can be a sound strategy. Look at the Phils right now. They are tanking BIG TIME. 45 million payroll. But they are building a roster of young studs and they will compete soon. And they will spend the war chest when the time is right. The pirates? They just keep steady at around the 5th lowest payroll and convince the rubes that they are competing each year.

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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:16 am 
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R S wrote:
bam morris wrote:
id love a salary cap...but I bet if there was one pirates would not meet it.. they would need a salary basement to make them spend.. id like to think if I was owner my joy would come from competing with the other owners to win rather then worrying bout profit in my bank.. like horse racing. I imagine most owners lose money and enjoy the sport.. George stienbrenner didn't give a shit about money unless he was winning..he may have lost money many years over paying his talent. but recouped it eventually.. nutting is a miser playing the fans for idiots..


i don't even want a salary cap. I want a salary basement. make it 115 million. But union Prez Tony Clark is about as good at negotiating as pet rock.

As SteelPro said, tanking can be a sound strategy. Look at the Phils right now. They are tanking BIG TIME. 45 million payroll. But they are building a roster of young studs and they will compete soon. And they will spend the war chest when the time is right. The pirates? They just keep steady at around the 5th lowest payroll and convince the rubes that they are competing each year.


All a floor and cap would do is shift the excuses. This team is F'd as long as Nutting owns it. Lets look at how baseball and the Pirates would look under an NHL style cap. NHL has a $55M floor and $75M cap. Baseball has roughly 2.3 times the revenues as the NHL. Put that multiplier on MLB and you get to about $126 million floor and a $173 million cap. Ok, so The Bucs would now have to spend $30-40 million more to reach a floor. I'm sure a good chuck of that would be made up of subsidies from additional revenue sharing. So how would the Pirates operate under such a a structure? You can almost guarantee the club will keep payroll near the floor. So the Cubs, Cards, and even the Brewers will continue to out spend the Bucs by a significant chunk. Now since the Pirates can't skimp on salary where will they skimp that is not bound by a cap? And since high revenue teams can't spend on roster payroll where will they look to invest to find advantages? My guess is the Pirates would slash the shit out of the scouting department. I mean what is the point of searching for cheap talent when you have to pay up to a floor anyway? From a business/profit standpoint scouting loses its cost efficiency when you have a floor/cap. So they likely close or sell their dominican academy, slash budget of the scouting department, pare down their number of minor league affiliates from 8 to 5. They probably try to nickle and dime on major league coaching staff too. Hurdle and Searage are expensive options. They will find guys with shorter resumes to take those jobs for probably half the salary. Meanwhile teams that were throwing money away on overpaid/underperforming veteran talent on the MLB roster will no longer be able to do that. Instead they'll shift to spend more on resources for scouting and coaching staff. Searage will get a hefty raise to be the Cubs new pitching coach. The Yankees will the buy the Pirates dominican training academy. The net result will be the same. The Pirates will still be run by a cheap miser and the team will continue a second tier team. I think this system would help the bigger spenders more than the small market clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I think a salary cap would be fun to watch only because its existence would call Nutting out on his bullshit.

Agreed - it would even the playing field and put total responsibility on the Pirates to manage the cap and pressure them to make the right moves in order to compete. No more blaming the Cubs for going out and giving $100M contracts to multiple players on their current rosters.


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 Post subject: Re: Steigerwald on Dave Freese's Pirates comments
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Posts: 2013
I am with Pro
The premise of the article is wrong as it completely falls to mention:
Other small franchises that have had success;
What the pirates actually did do when they won .. which is fuck all; and
There is zero defense for how the bucks do business. Their business model is sound .... to them.

Stop going to the park and watching them
It's th only way anything will happen


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