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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:22 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
The HC has as much say in the draft process as does the GM...at the very least its 50/50. so Colbert/Cowher >>>>>>> Colbert/Tomlin...either way who cares, fire them both but Tomlin DESERVES to have his ass shown the door. And he DID INHERIT and WIN WITH Colbert/Cowhers players.


Offense Colbert/Tomlin >>>>>>>>>>>offense Colbert/Cowher. Reverse for D.

What’s the point here?

And, so long as you’re simply stating that Tomlin inherited players, indisputable. But if that is somehow a ding against Tomlin. 100% wrong.

We can judge Tomlin all we want post 2011. Deservedly so. But he excelled and did exactly what he was hired to do from ‘07 thru ‘11 with, yes, Cowher’s players.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:39 am 
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Cowher won a game or two with Noll's players, as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:02 am 
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Ice wrote:
Cowher won a game or two with Noll's players, as well.


But he brought Capers and Lebeau onboard with him in 1992....and Blitzburgh was born!

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Are we back to the Cowher vs. Tomlin dumbass argument? Save yourself some fuckin' time. They are the same! They both won one Super Bowl (just barely), were/are great regular season coaches and not so much in the postseason. They are both more stubborn then 10 fuckin' mules. Cases in point - 2001 when Cowher refused to acknowledge there was anything wrong with Special Teams. Bit him in the ass in the end. Tomlin refuses to do anything about his time management dumbfuckedness. Most on this board lambasted Cowher (including me). Some of those still praise Tomlin. Hypocrites.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Are we back to the Cowher vs. Tomlin dumbass argument? Save yourself some fuckin' time. They are the same! They both won one Super Bowl (just barely), were/are great regular season coaches and not so much in the postseason. They are both more stubborn then 10 fuckin' mules. Cases in point - 2001 when Cowher refused to acknowledge there was anything wrong with Special Teams. Bit him in the ass in the end. Tomlin refuses to do anything about his time management dumbfuckedness. Most on this board lambasted Cowher (including me). Some of those still praise Tomlin. Hypocrites.

This!

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Are we back to the Cowher vs. Tomlin dumbass argument? Save yourself some fuckin' time. They are the same! They both won one Super Bowl (just barely), were/are great regular season coaches and not so much in the postseason. They are both more stubborn then 10 fuckin' mules. Cases in point - 2001 when Cowher refused to acknowledge there was anything wrong with Special Teams. Bit him in the ass in the end. Tomlin refuses to do anything about his time management dumbfuckedness. Most on this board lambasted Cowher (including me). Some of those still praise Tomlin. Hypocrites.


For about three pages, several folks, maybe even yourself included, I honestly have stopped keeping track, have espoused the idea that Tomlin won with Cowher's players. Was only pointing out that (as is the nature of anything other than taking over an expansion franchise) Cowher also won with Noll's players early on in his career. Like every other coach who has ever taken over an existing franchise. Which renders the who won with whose players argument pretty much moot.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Like every other coach who has ever taken over an existing franchise. Which renders the who won with whose players argument pretty much moot.


But, again, Cowher brought Lebeau and Capers onboard, and those guys were instrumental to the success that followed. VERY DIFFERENT from inheriting a coaching staff, along with a HOF QB.

Also, while Cowher won with "Noll's guys", he continued to win and rebuilt that team at least 3 times. He went to an AFCC twice each with 3 different QB's, a feat that Tomlin will never match. In fact, Tomlin has had a HOF QB the whole time and has only made it to 3 AFCC's, total.

Yeah, we shouldn't compare Tomlin to Cowher because aside from regular season wins he's really not in the same ballpark.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Ice wrote:
Like every other coach who has ever taken over an existing franchise. Which renders the who won with whose players argument pretty much moot.


But, again, Cowher brought Lebeau and Capers onboard, and those guys were instrumental to the success that followed. VERY DIFFERENT from inheriting a coaching staff, along with a HOF QB.

Also, while Cowher won with "Noll's guys", he continued to win and rebuilt that team at least 3 times. He went to an AFCC twice each with 3 different QB's, a feat that Tomlin will never match. In fact, Tomlin has had a HOF QB the whole time and has only made it to 3 AFCC's, total.

Yeah, we shouldn't compare Tomlin to Cowher because aside from regular season wins he's really not in the same ballpark.


If given the choice I'd take Cowher.

That's honestly very scary to admit


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:24 pm 
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If you get rid of Tomlin, the next guy will have to win with his guys, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Ice wrote:
If you get rid of Tomlin, the next guy will win with his guys, too.


Fixed

I’d rather have “the next guy” try cause the dope we have isn’t winning anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Ice wrote:
If you get rid of Tomlin, the next guy will have to win with his guys, too.


That's an upgrade - I'll take it because Tomlin isn't winning with "his guys".

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Ice wrote:
If you get rid of Tomlin, the next guy will have to win with his guys, too.


That's an upgrade - I'll take it because Tomlin isn't winning with "his guys".


Happens to just about every coach eventually, I suppose. Not sure if this is the time, but it always happens eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:53 am 
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FC wrote:
Quote:
Why isn't it Colbert's team?


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If anyone listened closely to the Where Art2 Thou interviews he conducted with most of the media last week (except Madden), he mentioned in more than one interview that he talks with Tomlin and Colbert DAILY.

I think a lot of people on this site think Colbert and or Tomlin run this show while Where Art2 Thou sits in his little box like a good little owner. I am guessing that’s very wrong and if we all had a peak into this organization, we would all be blown away by how much football influence Pass Down Artie really has.

He seems like a kind, patient, humble and loyal man - no doubt a good man, and I am certain I have been over the top in criticizing him as much as I do. I can only blame those moments on frustration and envy.

But I believe there is a balance needed on this team and Art2 is off-kilter. I don’t think he thinks this way, but he has a max 3 year window with Ben. I just wish the man would get out his comfort zone and try to win now.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:13 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
FC wrote:
Quote:
Why isn't it Colbert's team?


Image

If anyone listened closely to the Where Art2 Thou interviews he conducted with most of the media last week (except Madden), he mentioned in more than one interview that he talks with Tomlin and Colbert DAILY.

I think a lot of people on this site think Colbert and or Tomlin run this show while Where Art2 Thou sits in his little box like a good little owner. I am guessing that’s very wrong and if we all had a peak into this organization, we would all be blown away by how much football influence Pass Down Artie really has.

He seems like a kind, patient, humble and loyal man - no doubt a good man, and I am certain I have been over the top in criticizing him as much as I do. I can only blame those moments on frustration and envy.

But I believe there is a balance needed on this team and Art2 is off-kilter. I don’t think he thinks this way, but he has a max 3 year window with Ben. I just wish the man would get out his comfort zone and try to win now.


He'd make a great baseball commissioner, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:18 am 
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You don’t think Dan Rooney spoke daily with his GMs and coaches?

That’s reading quite a lot into one statement.

I don’t the issue is over-involvement from Art II.

I think the issue is a stale point of view in the football minds of the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:35 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
You don’t think Dan Rooney spoke daily with his GMs and coaches?

That’s reading quite a lot into one statement.

I don’t the issue is over-involvement from Art II.

I think the issue is a stale point of view in the football minds of the team.


88 has it in for Art II like he does MLB.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:43 am 
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Obviously wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
You don’t think Dan Rooney spoke daily with his GMs and coaches?

That’s reading quite a lot into one statement.

I don’t the issue is over-involvement from Art II.

I think the issue is a stale point of view in the football minds of the team.


88 has it in for Art II like he does MLB.


I’m not fond of Art II either simply because I don’t think he knows what he doesn’t know, plus I think he cares way too much what the Shadyside Bistro crowd thinks of his team’s image.

But I’m not going to read more into him speaking with GM and coach every day other than that he speaks with GM and coach every day.

Who is MLB? Bryant?

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
You don’t think Dan Rooney spoke daily with his GMs and coaches?

That’s reading quite a lot into one statement.

I don’t the issue is over-involvement from Art II.

I think the issue is a stale point of view in the football minds of the team.


88 has it in for Art II like he does MLB.


I’m not fond of Art II either simply because I don’t think he knows what he doesn’t know, plus I think he cares way too much what the Shadyside Bistro crowd thinks of his team’s image.

But I’m not going to read more into him speaking with GM and coach every day other than that he speaks with GM and coach every day.

Who is MLB? Bryant?

Major League Baseball

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
You don’t think Dan Rooney spoke daily with his GMs and coaches?

That’s reading quite a lot into one statement.

I don’t the issue is over-involvement from Art II.

I think the issue is a stale point of view in the football minds of the team.

Huh? I am saying they probably talk a lot and that he is involved in more football team decisions than many realize. If you like a conservative approach than Art2 is your guy. Stale is an understatement- he needs to think out of the box.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
You don’t think Dan Rooney spoke daily with his GMs and coaches?

That’s reading quite a lot into one statement.

I don’t the issue is over-involvement from Art II.

I think the issue is a stale point of view in the football minds of the team.


88 has it in for Art II like he does MLB.

Fair statement


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:15 pm 
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MLB.

D’OH!!!

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