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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:34 am 
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Quote:
“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.”
Theodore Roosevelt

Quote:
The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand.
Vince Lombardi

And the more plebeian wisdom
Quote:
Nothing worth having comes easy.
/Shrug.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:50 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Quote:
“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.”
Theodore Roosevelt

Quote:
The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand.
Vince Lombardi

And the more plebeian wisdom
Quote:
Nothing worth having comes easy.
/Shrug.


And yet, I'm willing to concede that one may feel no difference in intensity of pleasure with an easier route to the SB (which I would attribute to coarseness of feeling). But what I really want to ask is whether the pleasure from winning a harder schedule is of higher quality. This allows me to get the argument away from subjective feelings. So I have tried hard to be careful and speak of MORE as well as BETTER sorts of pleasure.

I think my second and third arguments are defeasible. The first one is absolutely rock solid.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:01 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
But what I really want to ask is whether the pleasure from winning a harder schedule is of higher quality.
The NFL seems to think so in determining tie breakers with teams and their "strength of schedule," yes? You are talking about subjective personal pleasure. . .

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:08 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
But what I really want to ask is whether the pleasure from winning a harder schedule is of higher quality.
The NFL seems to think so in determining tie breakers with teams and their "strength of schedule," yes? You are talking about subjective personal pleasure. . .

One could also use that argument though, and say that in some circumstances, win over browns exceeds win over patriots, had Steelers still be in dogfight for afc norf crown


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:55 am 
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Ok...I'll try this again...just spent 15 min on a post that didn't post cuz one of you asshats was posting at the same time. Rainy, foggy morn in nyc...Empire State bldg is rite outside my window, can't even see it. Excuse typos on this phone post. The goody professor, still lit, is already ceding the majority of his foolish arguments, largely because he's guilty of something which he accused another poster of in the Shazier thread, that being assuming what he is fringe to prove. The prob, professor, is that you're assuming what you're trying to prove. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, lit. Jeems enjoyed the 11 win over pats more than the 08 win. I'm the opposite. Why?? Cuz there's other factors beyond the strength of your opponent, factors like the venue and the particulars of the game. The 08 win was in Foxboro, fat Casey Hampton had a full fledged tantrum following a bullshit penalty, then em a big play directly following, with the same histrionics. James Harrison beat Matt lightweight twice for strip sacks. And best of all, Ryan Clark lit wes welder the fuck up. So...for ME, that game was the more enjoyable one. And I'll come back to an earlier point...does anyone for a second think that there was any Teeth gnashing in New England on Sunday nite, anyone bellyaching that thei enjoyment was compromised because AB left the game earlier?? Jeems' protests aside, it's an apt comparison and his absence didn't fuckin matter to the smug mother fuckers that root for the new england patriots. I'll endorse polyts points. Some events, like an Sb win, are such singular achievements, so immensely enjoyable, that any other add-in's, like your opponent
Not being at full strength, are negligible at best. Seems like lit is the sort that worries about what detractors will say about other teams injuries, about other teams penalties, like in SB XL. Me...I don't much give a fuck. I'll enjoy a Steeler winover pats just as much if gronk doesn't play as if he does, unless of coursr, we manage to fuck him up in the process (starting g to hate that biitch approaching tedi bruschi hate). So...all that said, I'll opt for increasing my teams chances of beating these fucks by having their best players on the shelf..and I'll enjoy that win no less as a result. Sorry bout the tupos


Last edited by swissvale72 on Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:19 am 
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No Swiss.

I don't see how you fail to grasp that I am not merely assuming things.

I am not merely positing conclusions and claiming they are true.

I provided premises to advance those conclusions.

YOU then claimed I was wrong.

I then asked you to explain why.

YOU then proceeded to supply much sound and fury, but no assessment of the premises.

The poster yonwhom you refer that I accused of begging a question assumed something without argument.

Big, big difference. If you are going to treat arguments as things no different than unjustified assumptions, we can't proceed.

Let's put down the insults and concentrate on the arguments instead, shall we.

Lot's of family obligations (happily) the next few days, as to be expected.

We'll sort all this out.

But. What I have voluntarily ceded as not wrong, but defeasible is the second argument. The first and third arguments I have more confidence in.

I will add; you still are not directly engaging the premises I use to secure my conclusions. To show why I am wrong about my conclusions, we have to show why the premises are unsound. Otherwise, what you suppose to undermine my conclusions may not be what those conclusions rest on. And hence I can claim my conclusions have not been refuted.

Lest you think I'm full of shit, it's no different in geometry. Take a gander at Euclid. It's all syllogisms just as I have given.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
No Swiss.

I don't see how you fail to grasp that I am not merely assuming things.

I am not merely positing conclusions and claiming they are true.

I provided premises to advance those conclusions.

YOU then claimed I was wrong.

I then asked you to explain why.

YOU then proceeded to supply much sound and fury, but no assessment of the premises.

The poster yonwhom you refer that I accused of begging a question assumed something without argument.

Big, big difference. If you are going to treat arguments as things no different than unjustified assumptions, we can't proceed.

Let's put down the insults and concentrate on the arguments instead, shall we.

Lot's of family obligations (happily) the next few days, as to be expected.

We'll sort all this out.

But. What I have voluntarily ceded as not wrong, but defeasible is the second argument. The first and third arguments I have more confidence in.

I will add; you still are not directly engaging the premises I use to secure my conclusions. To show why I am wrong about my conclusions, we have to show why the premises are unsound. Otherwise, what you suppose to undermine my conclusions may not be what those conclusions rest on. And hence I can claim my conclusions have not been refuted.

Lest you think I'm full of shit, it's no different in geometry. Take a gander at Euclid. It's all syllogisms just as I have given.


Except football is NOT geometry, and you're writing as though it is. Your off base on all three of your arguments:
*My argument, that quality of wins is not determined solely by the strength of the opposition, is every bit as valid as your position. Eye of the beholder, Lit. I've already given you one example, wins over the Patriots in '08 vs. '11. You and Jeems may think that the '11 win was a higher quality win. I don't.

*You seem to already be ceding this pleasure bullshit, so we'll leave that alone.

*Your final point, re: rooting for injuries being pussy fandom? Two things on that. I'll direct you once again to the Football Forum OP on that topic, where oh, upwards of 90% of the respondents are rooting for injury to Brady & Gronk. Guess we're all pussies? If we're NOT all pussies, in your opinion, how do you square that? And again...opting to face the Patriots at full strength rather than diminished strength as a Steeler fan, in a game that assumes a number of injuries, is simply fuckin' stupid. If the shoe fits, Lit....


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Oh no, I did not cede squat about the second argument. Guess you didn't look up what defeasible means.

Yes, you are all pussy fans. I gives no fucks about your poll. And...it's not like you framed the poll by means of my argument.

And wins against starter players are wins against better quality players. Follows the win is of higher quality.

You want the team to face an opposition as weakened as possible. Total pussy position.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Oh no, I did not cede squat about the second argument. Guess you didn't look up what defeasible means.

Yes, you are all pussy fans. I gives no fucks about your poll. And...it's not like you framed the poll by means of my argument.

And wins against starter players are wins against better quality players. Follows the win is of higher quality.

You want the team to face an opposition as weakened as possible. Total pussy position.


Nope....didn't look up defeasible and still haven't.

Your argument's weaker and weaker, Lit. Face it.

I want my team to win....you're chasing some ultimate pleasure experience, whatever the fuck that is. I well remember your critique of Steelers play-calling....not because it wasn't smart, but because it was "boring as fuck." Go watch a fuckin' movie if you're just looking to be entertained. Grinch should be on tonight, or White Christmas....more your speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:24 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Oh no, I did not cede squat about the second argument. Guess you didn't look up what defeasible means.

Yes, you are all pussy fans. I gives no fucks about your poll. And...it's not like you framed the poll by means of my argument.

And wins against starter players are wins against better quality players. Follows the win is of higher quality.

You want the team to face an opposition as weakened as possible. Total pussy position.


Nope....didn't look up defeasible and still haven't.

Your argument's weaker and weaker, Lit. Face it.

I want my team to win....you're chasing some ultimate pleasure experience, whatever the fuck that is. I well remember your critique of Steelers play-calling....not because it wasn't smart, but because it was "boring as fuck." Go watch a fuckin' movie if you're just looking to be entertained. Grinch should be on tonight, or White Christmas....more your speed.


I have not changed my arguments so they cannot have gotten weaker.

Made three arguments, only one of which concerns pleasure.

None of the things you wrote in the quoted have anything to do with assessing my arguments.

Man, Swiss, were you drunk when you posted this?

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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