It is currently Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:23 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:18 pm
Posts: 10859
exactly right pro..dude making fine money..why not go for winning and break even a few years. these billionaires are competing too! stienbrener gave little shit about profits in his pockets. winning was more important. he gave other teams penalty cash just to sign guys and try to win..unfortunately we have a greedy lying dick at the helm.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1286
What would you think of this rotation? Taillon, Cole, Sonny Gray, Nova, Williams/Kuhl/Glasnow/other

That would be a pretty darn good rotation for this year and next.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Posts: 4726
I am not the one stating the man has a ton of money, or demanding he deficit spend. All I am saying is that there is no way they can compete with Chicago, or even Washington and LA for that matter. When I say compete, I am talking about payroll, attracting free agents, and trading as well. Let's face it, we are constantly behind the 8-ball but I congratulate The Nut for making money off the system. Good business man.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:26 pm
Posts: 4725
for all the bashing Nutting gets, remember that it was McClatchy that controlled this team for the longest portion of the losing streak the team suffered -- After Nutting took majority control, things began to change, beginning with investing in minor league development, scouting, and investing more heavily in the draft. (under the prior regime, we would avoid drafting the BPA because we were afraid of spending the money to sign him -- Nutting has never shied away from drafting the best players and over-paying them) . He hired great FO people, and has fielded a competitive team in a small market, which is not at all easy to do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1286
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not the one stating the man has a ton of money, or demanding he deficit spend. All I am saying is that there is no way they can compete with Chicago, or even Washington and LA for that matter. When I say compete, I am talking about payroll, attracting free agents, and trading as well. Let's face it, we are constantly behind the 8-ball but I congratulate The Nut for making money off the system. Good business man.

The Diamondbacks signed Greinke away from the Dodgers with a $200 million contract. The Marlins were able to sign Giancarlo Stanton to $325 million deal. These are teams that Forbes had estimated to have revenues on par or below the Pirates. The Royals were able to trade for Cueto and Zobrist at the trade deadline 2 years ago. Then they won the World Series.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1286
steel wrote:
for all the bashing Nutting gets, remember that it was McClatchy that controlled this team for the longest portion of the losing streak the team suffered -- After Nutting took majority control, things began to change, beginning with investing in minor league development, scouting, and investing more heavily in the draft. (under the prior regime, we would avoid drafting the BPA because we were afraid of spending the money to sign him -- Nutting has never shied away from drafting the best players and over-paying them) . He hired great FO people, and has fielded a competitive team in a small market, which is not at all easy to do.


What small market teams haven't been competitive?
The Rays.. they've had some good runs and been to a World Series
The Royals.. they've won a World Series and lost one.
The Indians... nearly won a World Series. Also been a wild card
A's... read Moneyball
Reds... won the NL central twice since 2010
Brewers... more NL division crowns than the Pirates. Made a wild card too.
Rockies... not good last few years but did reach a World Series

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:18 pm
Posts: 10859
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not the one stating the man has a ton of money, or demanding he deficit spend. All I am saying is that there is no way they can compete with Chicago, or even Washington and LA for that matter. When I say compete, I am talking about payroll, attracting free agents, and trading as well. Let's face it, we are constantly behind the 8-ball but I congratulate The Nut for making money off the system. Good business man.

The Diamondbacks signed Greinke away from the Dodgers with a $200 million contract. The Marlins were able to sign Giancarlo Stanton to $325 million deal. These are teams that Forbes had estimated to have revenues on par or below the Pirates. The Royals were able to trade for Cueto and Zobrist at the trade deadline 2 years ago. Then they won the World Series.

exactly..praising nutting for minor leagues and front office is like praising the hotel manager for having a made bed on my arrival..dudes a cheap ass..get over it..im not crowing to over pay anyone. or to out bid dodgers ..I contend bucs can buy a player or 2 who help the team win instead of being known as a cheap ass bargain basement squad.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:18 pm
Posts: 10859
SteelPro wrote:
steel wrote:
for all the bashing Nutting gets, remember that it was McClatchy that controlled this team for the longest portion of the losing streak the team suffered -- After Nutting took majority control, things began to change, beginning with investing in minor league development, scouting, and investing more heavily in the draft. (under the prior regime, we would avoid drafting the BPA because we were afraid of spending the money to sign him -- Nutting has never shied away from drafting the best players and over-paying them) . He hired great FO people, and has fielded a competitive team in a small market, which is not at all easy to do.


What small market teams haven't been competitive?
The Rays.. they've had some good runs and been to a World Series
The Royals.. they've won a World Series and lost one.
The Indians... nearly won a World Series. Also been a wild card
A's... read Moneyball
Reds... won the NL central twice since 2010
Brewers... more NL division crowns than the Pirates. Made a wild card too.
Rockies... not good last few years but did reach a World Series

marlins. tigers. giants..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:26 pm
Posts: 4725
bam morris wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
steel wrote:
for all the bashing Nutting gets, remember that it was McClatchy that controlled this team for the longest portion of the losing streak the team suffered -- After Nutting took majority control, things began to change, beginning with investing in minor league development, scouting, and investing more heavily in the draft. (under the prior regime, we would avoid drafting the BPA because we were afraid of spending the money to sign him -- Nutting has never shied away from drafting the best players and over-paying them) . He hired great FO people, and has fielded a competitive team in a small market, which is not at all easy to do.


What small market teams haven't been competitive?
The Rays.. they've had some good runs and been to a World Series
The Royals.. they've won a World Series and lost one.
The Indians... nearly won a World Series. Also been a wild card
A's... read Moneyball
Reds... won the NL central twice since 2010
Brewers... more NL division crowns than the Pirates. Made a wild card too.
Rockies... not good last few years but did reach a World Series

marlins. tigers. giants..


Padres, Blue Jays...

hell, even big market teams haven't been competitive

Cubs sucked for 80+ years until they decided to develop their own young talent

Mets have sucked forever

Yankees haven't done shit lately

I think teams that develop their own talent are the most competitive teams, and that's exactly what the Pirates have begun doing under Nutting's regime


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Posts: 4726
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not the one stating the man has a ton of money, or demanding he deficit spend. All I am saying is that there is no way they can compete with Chicago, or even Washington and LA for that matter. When I say compete, I am talking about payroll, attracting free agents, and trading as well. Let's face it, we are constantly behind the 8-ball but I congratulate The Nut for making money off the system. Good business man.

The Diamondbacks signed Greinke away from the Dodgers with a $200 million contract. The Marlins were able to sign Giancarlo Stanton to $325 million deal. These are teams that Forbes had estimated to have revenues on par or below the Pirates. The Royals were able to trade for Cueto and Zobrist at the trade deadline 2 years ago. Then they won the World Series.

How's that working for them? Both stupid ridiculous deals which makes my ultimate point that this league is desperately in need of a correction- but you keep arguing your point and enjoy those Penguins championships and Steelers wins.....

1,2,3 ...... cue the Steelers and Penguins don't need a cap to win hahahahahahaha


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Posts: 4726
SteelPro wrote:
steel wrote:
for all the bashing Nutting gets, remember that it was McClatchy that controlled this team for the longest portion of the losing streak the team suffered -- After Nutting took majority control, things began to change, beginning with investing in minor league development, scouting, and investing more heavily in the draft. (under the prior regime, we would avoid drafting the BPA because we were afraid of spending the money to sign him -- Nutting has never shied away from drafting the best players and over-paying them) . He hired great FO people, and has fielded a competitive team in a small market, which is not at all easy to do.


What small market teams haven't been competitive?
The Rays.. they've had some good runs and been to a World Series
The Royals.. they've won a World Series and lost one.
The Indians... nearly won a World Series. Also been a wild card
A's... read Moneyball
Reds... won the NL central twice since 2010
Brewers... more NL division crowns than the Pirates. Made a wild card too.
Rockies... not good last few years but did reach a World Series

Everyone of those teams has no chance in hell of sustaining any kind of consistent winnung like a good organization can do in a cap league - they will all lose their star players. The life of a small market MLB fan. Wish they would let the small market guys take HGH so we have a better shot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:28 pm
Posts: 4706
No club in the MLB is guaranteed sustained winning regardless of salary cap. The usual suspects who you say benefit - Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Angels, Dodgers (can't remember them all) - don't have sustained winning.

MLB needs improvement but it isn't the "TOTAL JOKE" which you say it is. In fact if it was so total, you wouldn't give a shit about it and come back here and argue it all the time.

My biggest problem with your argument is that it excuses the Pirates for their failures which should not be blamed completely on the lack of a salary cap. It should be blamed primarily on incompetence and cheapness on the part of the owner. You are right, however, to point out that McClatchey was worse than Nutting, but that's like saying Max Moroff is worse than Mario Mendoza.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1286
Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not the one stating the man has a ton of money, or demanding he deficit spend. All I am saying is that there is no way they can compete with Chicago, or even Washington and LA for that matter. When I say compete, I am talking about payroll, attracting free agents, and trading as well. Let's face it, we are constantly behind the 8-ball but I congratulate The Nut for making money off the system. Good business man.

The Diamondbacks signed Greinke away from the Dodgers with a $200 million contract. The Marlins were able to sign Giancarlo Stanton to $325 million deal. These are teams that Forbes had estimated to have revenues on par or below the Pirates. The Royals were able to trade for Cueto and Zobrist at the trade deadline 2 years ago. Then they won the World Series.

How's that working for them? Both stupid ridiculous deals which makes my ultimate point that this league is desperately in need of a correction- but you keep arguing your point and enjoy those Penguins championships and Steelers wins.....

1,2,3 ...... cue the Steelers and Penguins don't need a cap to win hahahahahahaha

The Diamondbacks are 56-41, have a 5.5 game lead in the wild card standings, and Greinke is 11-4 with a sub 3.00 ERA.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:18 pm
Posts: 10859
exactly..they sign a guy for money..we dump guys for money...all in name of winning. whats really pathetic we did sign guys who produced. byrd; happ ; volquez; morneau..yet don't even try to keep them..wouldn't those guys on squad be helping current rotation now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Posts: 4726
Obviously wrote:
No club in the MLB is guaranteed sustained winning regardless of salary cap. The usual suspects who you say benefit - Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Angels, Dodgers (can't remember them all) - don't have sustained winning.

MLB needs improvement but it isn't the "TOTAL JOKE" which you say it is. In fact if it was so total, you wouldn't give a shit about it and come back here and argue it all the time.

My biggest problem with your argument is that it excuses the Pirates for their failures which should not be blamed completely on the lack of a salary cap. It should be blamed primarily on incompetence and cheapness on the part of the owner. You are right, however, to point out that McClatchey was worse than Nutting, but that's like saying Max Moroff is worse than Mario Mendoza.
p
Not an argument- it's a proven fact. Despite Wins or Losses, The Cubs have an advantage over the Pirates and that makes this league a joke. Good for the Nut finding a Nut.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Posts: 4726
Zack Greinke is 33 years old making $34M+ per year - if he wins 20 games, that's $1.7M per win - great deal! Pirates are fools for not making that offer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:18 pm
Posts: 10859
Suwanee88 wrote:
Zack Greinke is 33 years old making $34M+ per year - if he wins 20 games, that's $1.7M per win - great deal! Pirates are fools for not making that offer.

but who cares..theres no cap..it comes outta owners account..no mine or urs..fans pay to see the product on field. id rather pay to see a quality pitcher whos rich then a bargain basement chump.. if I want a team of prospects and hopefuls ill go see triple a ball..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:18 pm
Posts: 10859
Suwanee88 wrote:
Zack Greinke is 33 years old making $34M+ per year - if he wins 20 games, that's $1.7M per win - great deal! Pirates are fools for not making that offer.

would u rather pay your hard earned money to go watch ben throw passes making 20m a year or wes lunt making 555k..?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:24 pm
Posts: 6507
Location: Rhode Island (behind enemy lines)
Watching Jose Quintana pitch for the Cubs tonight. According to some reports, he was on the Pirates radar last off-season but they refused to pull the trigger. Well, our division rivals have him now.

_________________
#CdnSteelerFanStrong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1286
Suwanee88 wrote:
Zack Greinke is 33 years old making $34M+ per year - if he wins 20 games, that's $1.7M per win - great deal! Pirates are fools for not making that offer.


I agree with you. The Greinke deal proves that small market teams seemingly can afford to make foolish deals just like the large market teams do.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2447
Suwanee88 wrote:
Zack Greinke is 33 years old making $34M+ per year - if he wins 20 games, that's $1.7M per win - great deal! Pirates are fools for not making that offer.


But wins and losses are not at all the best way to judge a pitcher.

Would Greinke be a 20 game winner on the Pirates? Probably not.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Posts: 4726
You guys and I will never agree on this issue so it's ridiculous to keep arguing it and I understand I bring it up a lot because being a Pirates fan in 2017 is frustrating, but unlike most of you I will not hold the Pirates at 100% fault. They will always get a break from me.

I am confident that in the year 2017 with guaranteed contracts (Nfl issue) and no cap, the Steelers and Penguins wouldn't be the power franchises they are today. That's why I hold the Steelers to a higher standard. NE has owned them in every football operation and people write it off as them just being better while the Steelers stay in their box.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 3204
If the Pirates really want to build a strong team they need a better farm system. The Cubs success is part drafting and part dumping talent for prospects. Rizo, Russell, Hayward, Happ, and Zoberist are all from either trades or FA signing. Their entire pitching staff were FA with zero home grown talent.

I go to the Indianapolis Indians games and I think they might have two players on their that will have any impact at all. So near term they are not getting any help. Their good classes have ( Bell, Tallion, Cole, ect) have graduated. They can plod along and get more of the same or try to sell players for top talent. Not salary dumps. They trade someone like Felipe Rivero they had better get another teams #1 talent and that talent had better be considered top 10.

_________________
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Henri Poincaré


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 1286
I do not hold the Pirates 100% at fault, nor do I 100% dismiss the advantages that 2 or 3 teams seemingly have by the economics of the sport. But I believe these advantages are significantly overrated. For every big time free agent signing that works out there are 2 that turn out to be complete albatrosses. Signing big time free agents is a suckers game. But the Pirates deserve a lot of criticism in my mind because they botched a window of opportunity by being too focused on the future and too concerned with "financial flexibility". The truly awful decisions the Pirates have made in the last few seasons would have easily been avoided by a very modest increase in the payroll.

_________________
Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


Last edited by SteelPro on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neal Huntington and Buccos at the trade deadline
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:58 pm
Posts: 2035
Suwanee88 wrote:
You guys and I will never agree on this issue so it's ridiculous to keep arguing it and I understand I bring it up a lot because being a Pirates fan in 2017 is frustrating, but unlike most of you I will not hold the Pirates at 100% fault. They will always get a break from me.

I am confident that in the year 2017 with guaranteed contracts (Nfl issue) and no cap, the Steelers and Penguins wouldn't be the power franchises they are today. That's why I hold the Steelers to a higher standard. NE has owned them in every football operation and people write it off as them just being better while the Steelers stay in their box.


The 2017 Pirates? Try the last several decades.

We are the Browns of baseball. No chance at a World Series.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group