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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
955876 wrote:
Tomlin isn't responsible for the offense. He only deals with the high level stuff...


Like what hotel to stay at, what time the plane leaves, etc...


Only if he has time. Preparing fresh catch phrases for the weekly pressers in addition to managing his diet fill up most of his schedule.

And don't underestimate the time spent on diet. Seems trivial but when you make 2 point conversion decisions based on your "gut" it becomes very important to differentiate between intuition or Friday's chili burger...


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:40 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
955876 wrote:
Tomlin isn't responsible for the offense. He only deals with the high level stuff...


Like what hotel to stay at, what time the plane leaves, etc...


Only if he has time. Preparing fresh catch phrases for the weekly pressers in addition to managing his diet fill up most of his schedule.

And don't underestimate the time spent on diet. Seems trivial but when you make 2 point conversion decisions based on your "gut" it becomes very important to differentiate between intuition or Friday's chili burger...


My bad guys. Haley has nothing to do with it. I forgot that as HC Tomlin is supposed to do Haley's job for him.

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
My bad guys. Haley has nothing to do with it. I forgot that as HC Tomlin is supposed to do Haley's job for him.


Before someone says Tomlin should fire him, or tell him to change his philosophy, I would like to state unequivocally that I believe Todd Haley was hired by the decree of Art II because he is the son of Dick Haley. Likewise, I think Art II issued a similar decree to Tomlin and Haley that resulted in the at times-neanderthalic offense we're seeing.

I don't think that makes Tomlin a potted plant or immune from criticism, or a victim, but I think he's following the orders of his boss. And his boss, try as he might, is not a shadow of his father who preceded him.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Haley has plenty to do with it Lit. But if you read the stuff posted here Haley catches the blame while many of those same posters give Tomlin a pass because it's "not his job".

I've long argued that Tomlin is fully on board with what Haley does and is doing. So if Haley is doing a poor job, that tells me a good deal about Tomlin as he is complicit to it all.

Is he not as HC ultimately the MOST responsible for the product on the field? If that's the case, why bash the underling if the boss is the one allowing it to continue?

And for a HC that according to some here have no game planning or play calling responsibilities he sure seems to fuck-up the things are his direct responsibility quite a bit.

10 years as a HC and countless other years in various levels of coaching and still trips over himself in terms of calling timeouts, going for two, and kicking FGs...

Tomlin's saviness hasn't lived up to his jargon...


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
My bad guys. Haley has nothing to do with it. I forgot that as HC Tomlin is supposed to do Haley's job for him.


Before someone says Tomlin should fire him, or tell him to change his philosophy, I would like to state unequivocally that I believe Todd Haley was hired by the decree of Art II because he is the son of Dick Haley. Likewise, I think Art II issued a similar decree to Tomlin and Haley that resulted in the at times-neanderthalic offense we're seeing.

I don't think that makes Tomlin a potted plant or immune from criticism, or a victim, but I think he's following the orders of his boss. And his boss, try as he might, is not a shadow of his father who preceded him.


While certainly plausible, it's also ridiculous if true. Not saying you thinking this has occurred is ridiculous because you are not alone in that thought and I can even buy into it myself. In fact, it's quite possible.

It's ridiculous to me because it would show how lame the powers that be actually are. It would mean we have an owner that places doing a buddy a favor above the interest of the team.

It would also mean we have a coach who is happy to collect his check and mail it in rather than actually coach the team in accordance with his vision.

Mike Tomlin would not be hurting for opportunities if he was fired or quit. So "job security" really shouldn't be at play here.

I just think it says a lot about Tomlin (in a negative way) if this is what went down.

Question though, does Deuce also instruct Tomlin to not attack Brady and spend the game seeing how many defenders he can drop into coverage? Or is that all on Butler?


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:33 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Laying the Wood wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
My bad guys. Haley has nothing to do with it. I forgot that as HC Tomlin is supposed to do Haley's job for him.


Before someone says Tomlin should fire him, or tell him to change his philosophy, I would like to state unequivocally that I believe Todd Haley was hired by the decree of Art II because he is the son of Dick Haley. Likewise, I think Art II issued a similar decree to Tomlin and Haley that resulted in the at times-neanderthalic offense we're seeing.

I don't think that makes Tomlin a potted plant or immune from criticism, or a victim, but I think he's following the orders of his boss. And his boss, try as he might, is not a shadow of his father who preceded him.


While certainly plausible, it's also ridiculous if true. Not saying you thinking this has occurred is ridiculous because you are not alone in that thought and I can even buy into it myself. In fact, it's quite possible.

It's ridiculous to me because it would show how lame the powers that be actually are. It would mean we have an owner that places doing a buddy a favor above the interest of the team.

It would also mean we have a coach who is happy to collect his check and mail it in rather than actually coach the team in accordance with his vision.

Mike Tomlin would not be hurting for opportunities if he was fired or quit. So "job security" really shouldn't be at play here.

I just think it says a lot about Tomlin (in a negative way) if this is what went down.

Question though, does Deuce also instruct Tomlin to not attack Brady and spend the game seeing how many defenders he can drop into coverage? Or is that all on Butler?


I'll go further with my theory, and like you said, it's not just mine. Tomlin said Arians would be back. Art II announced that Arians was retiring. Arians said that was bullshit and he moved on to Indy. Son of Dick was subsequently hired. To me, it doesn't take much between-the-lines-reading to see what happened there.

It wouldn't be the first time this team has "done a favor for a buddy." That's how half of the Central Catholic/Detroit Lions castoffs have jobs with the scouting department.

As for what that says about Tomlin... I don't know many head coaches who would defy the owner of their team. If they did, they'd be out of a job. And though Tomlin, like you said, wouldn't be hurting for a job if he found himself unemployed, he might have a more difficult time if he were fired for spurning the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Anyway, I don't think he's mailing it in and collecting checks. I think he's genuinely trying to win a championship within the parameters of what the ownership wants and the team's philosophy.

I think the loss to the Patriots was a result of poor coaching and personnel that was lacking. I think they didn't think their defensive backs could cover New England's receivers man-to-man so they played it safe. I think it was a mistake, but I also think it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I also think Bill Belichick is inarguably the best coach of all time and I'm not surprised we came up short.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:44 pm 
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955876 wrote:
It would also mean we have a coach who is happy to collect his check and mail it in rather than actually coach the team in accordance with his vision.

Mike Tomlin would not be hurting for opportunities if he was fired or quit. So "job security" really shouldn't be at play here.

I just think it says a lot about Tomlin (in a negative way) if this is what went down.


Exactly. +1000

If Tomlin is "saddled" with Haley and "powerless" to do anything about it, then he must be satisfied with the arrangement....which is an implicit vote of no-confidence.

It's the classic argument that Tomlin is not a potted plant, but Rooney hired a potted plant.

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
And though Tomlin, like you said, wouldn't be hurting for a job if he found himself unemployed, he might have a more difficult time if he were fired for spurning the Pittsburgh Steelers.


Contrary to popular belief, he doesn't actually have a lifetime contract....but he keeps re-upping every few years.

He'd have no problem getting another job, and quite possibly more money, but he appears to be very comfortable with his situation.

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:49 pm 
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It's definitely possible LTW and I'd have no way of disproving any of it as it actually makes a lot of sense and is quite believable.

At the same time, having Haley as OC doesn't have to mean Haley has 100% impunity to do whatever he wants without any input, direction, or being overruled from time to time by the HC.

I can buy Deuce wanting to bring Haley in. I dont think I'd buy Deuce calling Tomlin into his office and giving him the "hands off" speech.

Which is why I believe it to be highly likely that Tomlin is very much on board with what this team does offensively.

It is also why when the shit gets slung at Haley I remind those people that Haley has a boss who allows these things to occur. Wanting to keep Ben upright was what Deuce wanted. I doubt he wanted stale & predictable playcalling.

And none of this speaks to Tomlin and his complete lack of situational awareness during games. Which is why I've come to think he's a bit of a fraud.

Sometimes I feel like the guy would lose a game of checkers with a 3rd grader 3 times in a row on the same move. I used to really like Tomlin.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
I think it was a mistake, but I also think it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I also think Bill Belichick is inarguably the best coach of all time and I'm not surprised we came up short.


I was surprised we got absolutely embarassed. I was surprised we weren't at all competitive.

Not merely a case of NE being better coached - our coaches looked like they didn't even belong.

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I dont think I'd buy Deuce calling Tomlin into his office and giving him the "hands off" speech.

Which is why I believe it to be highly likely that Tomlin is very much on board with what this team does offensively.


Precisely. A former DC and 10-yr HC should be plenty capable of dissecting how to attack the opposing team's defense. He doesn't have to draw up plays, or make the calls, but he sure as hell SHOULD have his fingerprints all over the offensive philosophy and gameplans.

I mean, he got Finchner involved in the 2-pt plays....you know, the ones where they pass every time. Would it take a rocket scientist to say "hey, I like what you guys are doing....but, you know, maybe be a little less predictable"?

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:58 pm 
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955876 wrote:
It's definitely possible LTW and I'd have no way of disproving any of it as it actually makes a lot of sense and is quite believable.

At the same time, having Haley as OC doesn't have to mean Haley has 100% impunity to do whatever he wants without any input, direction, or being overruled from time to time by the HC.

I can buy Deuce wanting to bring Haley in. I dont think I'd buy Deuce calling Tomlin into his office and giving him the "hands off" speech.

Which is why I believe it to be highly likely that Tomlin is very much on board with what this team does offensively.

It is also why when the shit gets slung at Haley I remind those people that Haley has a boss who allows these things to occur. Wanting to keep Ben upright was what Deuce wanted. I doubt he wanted stale & predictable playcalling.

And none of this speaks to Tomlin and his complete lack of situational awareness during games. Which is why I've come to think he's a bit of a fraud.

Sometimes I feel like the guy would lose a game of checkers with a 3rd grader 3 times in a row on the same move. I used to really like Tomlin.


You make some good points and I don't disagree with everything you said. Still, I have a positive opinion of Tomlin and I'm hopeful we get over the hump before Ben retires.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:53 pm 
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I'm hopeful as well. Just no longer confident. I bought in early to what Tomlin was saying. Took quite a few years but came to realize they were mostly just hollow words IMO.

Far too many games where coaching has been the major discrepancy vs talent.

BB would have easily beaten us just as badly with our roster and us theirs.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:39 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I'm hopeful as well. Just no longer confident. I bought in early to what Tomlin was saying. Took quite a few years but came to realize they were mostly just hollow words IMO.

Far too many games where coaching has been the major discrepancy vs talent.

BB would have easily beaten us just as badly with our roster and us theirs.


THIS^

Especially the last sentence.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:12 am 
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Steel 40 wrote:
SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Ravens analogy is not a good one. Steelers went through the Ravens to 2 superbowl appearances. The lamenting about not beating the Ravens started 2 years ago when the Ravens swept the steelers (for about half their win total for the year if I recall). Those 2 losses to a suck out loud raven team helped the steelers secure a road game against the Bengals in the playoffs after praying for a bills upset against the jets just to get in the playoffs.

Then 1-1 last year. The "trend" is not "back to kicking their ass". The trend went from winning when it mattered against them to struggling against them, even with a far more talented team.

Now...the Patriots dream that started this thread. I had the same misguided optimism all year last year. I just KNEW it was the year the steelers play the Pats in the playoffs and get over that hurdle.

Well....i was half right....if you consider that abortion "playing the Pats". Pats played the steelers for sure, that I know. Like a cat with a crippled mouse.

How anyone can not still be disgusted with that showing is beyond me. The Texans were more competitive and they had one of the worst starting qb's in the league.



Spot on. I actually thought it was the time we were going to go into Foxboro even and get the W. I had no idea how or why, I just strongly felt like it was going to happen. Then, we witnessed that abortion game plan and the ensuing nightmare unfold. Fucking horrible. It'll leave a bitter taste in my mouth probably for ever, every time it gets brought up.


Yeah just keep ignoring the fact that our team MVP playoff record-setter missed most of the game. Maybe we still lose but it would've been a lot closer.

Win your home game this season (stay healthy) and maybe you've got a chance to finally end this nightmare.


Again, did you miss the 2010 Sunday nighter at Heinz Field, when the Pats kicked our asses?

I guarantee you the Patriots do not fear to play the Steelers any time, anywhere.

They will beat us in the rain...or on a boat...or on a train. It does not matter.

Before the AFCCG, they were mocking the Steelers.

Which they had every right to do.

They have a better team, better coaching, and better organization.

They fucking own our asses.

Doesn't matter how many stars we load up with...they will find a way to beat us 9 times out of 10.

It sucks to say it, but it's true.

If only our team and braintrust would say this...because the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one.

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:51 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Again, did you miss the 2010 Sunday nighter at Heinz Field, when the Pats kicked our asses?

I guarantee you the Patriots do not fear to play the Steelers any time, anywhere.

They will beat us in the rain...or on a boat...or on a train. It does not matter.

Before the AFCCG, they were mocking the Steelers.

Which they had every right to do.

They have a better team, better coaching, and better organization.

They fucking own our asses.

Doesn't matter how many stars we load up with...they will find a way to beat us 9 times out of 10.

It sucks to say it, but it's true.

If only our team and braintrust would say this...because the first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one.
Ok. That sounds reasonable enough. That's pretty much where I am, but I'm entertaining other factors just for shits and giggles. What other reason would possibly explain the butt fuck rape the steelers endured in january?

2. They were sick and didn't want to blame anything or anybody for their failures. There were reports that a stomach flu was making the rounds and several steelers were affected. This could have easily sapped them of copious amounts of energy. They did seem lethargic.
3. The steelers coaching staff overestimated the intelligence and experience of the defensive secondary. Couple that with #2 and you get a reasonable facsimile of what happened in that game. On both sides of the ball.
4. They expected Bell to have a monster game, placing all their eggs in one (or two, with AB) baskets. AB was a non-factor. They thought they could keep pace with the pats offense, but failed to have a plan B when they realized Bell was going to be out right before the start of the game. Considering the lax state of structure or discipline, it wouldn't surprise me that Bell kept his injury to himself because he "really wanted to play."
5. They purposefully (or more specifically, were instructed to) let the pats walk all over them as compensation for deflategate and head to the SB. This would explain BR's comments. Why compete when the outcome is pre-determined? Maybe his retirement talk was a direct shot across Goodell's bow on the state of the NFL, and not Haley. This one's for you, Beth.

The reason I include #5 is because practically the entirety of steeler nation (with the exception of Lit), thought the game would at least be competitive. How is it that so many were so wrong? Sound familiar, eh?

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:05 pm 
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In response to the perfect Jeemie I'd;

My point for this entire thread is that I want to get a win against the Patriots so that as a team we know it's possible. My point is that the best way is a home prime time game with our FOUR EXPLOSIVE OFFENSIVE weapons healthy and ready to hunt. Far better than our recent history of getting rolled in Foxboro with one or more missing.

So if it happens will you come on here and apologize. No instead you'll either site luck, say we still will lose in a playoff game or some other bullcrap excuse.

I just want to see the BEES together balling out in front of a national audience so we can believe there's a way to crack the BRADY/BELLICHECK code. There ABSOLUTELY is no game you can pull out of your ass with them facing THE BB boys.

I have copied your diatribe for future reference. And I will use it after that spectacular game in November. Stay tuned.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:55 am 
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Steel 40 wrote:
In response to the perfect Jeemie I'd;

My point for this entire thread is that I want to get a win against the Patriots so that as a team we know it's possible. My point is that the best way is a home prime time game with our FOUR EXPLOSIVE OFFENSIVE weapons healthy and ready to hunt. Far better than our recent history of getting rolled in Foxboro with one or more missing.

So if it happens will you come on here and apologize. No instead you'll either site luck, say we still will lose in a playoff game or some other bullcrap excuse.

I just want to see the BEES together balling out in front of a national audience so we can believe there's a way to crack the BRADY/BELLICHECK code. There ABSOLUTELY is no game you can pull out of your ass with them facing THE BB boys.

I have copied your diatribe for future reference. And I will use it after that spectacular game in November. Stay tuned.


My point was it's not because of our lack of stars playing together that we keep losing to them.

And you even tacitly admit this by pretty much admitting the only way we have a chance to beat the Patriots is if we play them with each and every condition that could possibly be in our favor lining up together.

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:08 am 
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At risk of being labeled 'conspiracy theorist' or 'dude with tin foil hat' I believe that your #5 is plausible Cor-Ten. I know many football fans [of other teams] that thought the same. If any team can compete and give the cheats grief it is the Steelers. That's all I heard from folks before the AFCCG. Not predicting a Steelers win but simply the Steelers matched up good enough and would at least stay in the game making it competitive. Obviously that was not to be. All those same folks had the same outlook as I did post game. WTF?! The Steelers came out strong to open and just took a nose dive like a 'paid off' prize fighter throwing a fight. Not implying any fix/script just an observation.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Steel 40 wrote:
In response to the perfect Jeemie I'd;

My point for this entire thread is that I want to get a win against the Patriots so that as a team we know it's possible. My point is that the best way is a home prime time game with our FOUR EXPLOSIVE OFFENSIVE weapons healthy and ready to hunt. Far better than our recent history of getting rolled in Foxboro with one or more missing.

So if it happens will you come on here and apologize. No instead you'll either site luck, say we still will lose in a playoff game or some other bullcrap excuse.

I just want to see the BEES together balling out in front of a national audience so we can believe there's a way to crack the BRADY/BELLICHECK code. There ABSOLUTELY is no game you can pull out of your ass with them facing THE BB boys.

I have copied your diatribe for future reference. And I will use it after that spectacular game in November. Stay tuned.


My point was it's not because of our lack of stars playing together that we keep losing to them.

And you even tacitly admit this by pretty much admitting the only way we have a chance to beat the Patriots is if we play them with each and every condition that could possibly be in our favor lining up together.


I'm asking for two things;
1. The four BEES together for the first time. There are 22 starters on O & D.
2. Prime time at home since they recently got to play us in front of a national audience and simply embarrassed us and the Steeler brand.

Very simple request really. Yes the Pats are VERY good and it's going to take something VERY special to beat them. I think the BEES are that something if they can stay healthy and "clean" for one stupid game.

That's what I want. Nothing more.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
At risk of being labeled 'conspiracy theorist' or 'dude with tin foil hat' I believe that your #5 is plausible Cor-Ten. I know many football fans [of other teams] that thought the same. If any team can compete and give the cheats grief it is the Steelers. That's all I heard from folks before the AFCCG. Not predicting a Steelers win but simply the Steelers matched up good enough and would at least stay in the game making it competitive. Obviously that was not to be. All those same folks had the same outlook as I did post game. WTF?! The Steelers came out strong to open and just took a nose dive like a 'paid off' prize fighter throwing a fight. Not implying any fix/script just an observation.


They came out strong to open?

They let the Pats march right down the field on the opening drive, only holding them to a FG because Malcolm Mitchell dropped a pass on third and one.

Then they went three and out after a stupid downfield shot to Coates on third and one. Got one good stop on the Pats on that drive, then went six and out, and then gave up a long TD drive to go down 10-0.

Not sure how that qualified as "coming out strong to,open".

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
At risk of being labeled 'conspiracy theorist' or 'dude with tin foil hat' I believe that your #5 is plausible Cor-Ten. I know many football fans [of other teams] that thought the same. If any team can compete and give the cheats grief it is the Steelers. That's all I heard from folks before the AFCCG. Not predicting a Steelers win but simply the Steelers matched up good enough and would at least stay in the game making it competitive. Obviously that was not to be. All those same folks had the same outlook as I did post game. WTF?! The Steelers came out strong to open and just took a nose dive like a 'paid off' prize fighter throwing a fight. Not implying any fix/script just an observation.
None of us will ever really know, though. Unfortunately. But the signs and implications are too obvious to ignore. All we can do is shrug our shoulders and move on, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Yeah, what am I thinking jeems? The fact that the Steelers even made it to the AFCCG was a miracle in and of itself.


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:45 pm 
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So to sum up. My dream schedule for tonight.

1. Opening and Closing games at home.
2. New England Pats on SNF at Heinz.
3. No Detroit Thanksgiving game.

Give me that and I'm feeling good about a bye this season (if we remain relatively healthy of course).


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 Post subject: Re: What I MUST SEE on our Regular Season Schedule Next Week
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Steel 40 wrote:
So to sum up. My dream schedule for tonight.

1. Opening and Closing games at home.
2. New England Pats on SNF at Heinz.
3. No Detroit Thanksgiving game.

Give me that and I'm feeling good about a bye this season (if we remain relatively healthy of course).


I'm praying for no Thanksgiving game as well. Going to Detroit game, don't want it to be on the holiday.

Looks like Steelers are at Chicago week 3 according to Twitter.


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