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 Post subject: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:11 pm 
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It's official- the NFL will have a franchise in Sin City.

Ian Crapoport just reported the owners approved the Raiders' relocation to Las Vegas.

Seems fitting on so many levels...

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Apparently Miami was the only team to vote against it.

On a personal aside, I hope that these moves to LA and LV fail miserably. This whole process of sports leagues extorting cities for new stadiums/arenas and tax breaks is bullshit and needs to stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:20 pm 
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They will be in Oakland for a few more seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:27 pm 
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So how long will they be in Vegas before they start whining about moving again?

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
So how long will they be in Vegas before they start whining about moving again?


The question will be will they actually MAKE it to Vegas before they start whining again?

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
So how long will they be in Vegas before they start whining about moving again?


The question will be will they actually MAKE it to Vegas before they start whining again?

True! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Why would this ever stop if they keep getting rewarded for it? Why stop extorting if extortion works?

Las Vegas is a much better market than Oakland, unless Plan B was to move further south to San Jose.

Now Raiders have a fan base in three cities.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:55 pm 
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I remember reading an article once saying that Al Davis should just buy an aircraft carrier and play his games on it. Then he could sail it up and down the coast as the mood strikes him.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:03 am 
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Necessary move. $450 billion in debt, the state has been run by corrupt thieves that have destroyed cities like Oakland and pockets of SF, once were jewel towns. Explosive growth in Phoenix Denver Vegas Nashville powered in part by people & companies fleeing CA. Taxes are oppressive to fund all of the self destructive policies. Voluntary resettlement. Mark had no choice, under the prudent man theory most would do the same thing given the facts. Sad to see the decay and decline.

Miami objection was political only. Franchises hate each other, Don loathed Davis.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:35 am 
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Old School is correct. Even the nicest parts of the Bay area are pretty much an outside sewer/Bedlam. Because it would be wrong to judge. Detroit with better weather.

Can you imagine the 70s Raiders in Vegas? Or the 90s Cowboys? Tooz, Irvin etc. would have gotten into so much trouble.

“Las Vegas turns women into men and men into idiots.” ~ Bugsy Siegel

No team will have as many off-field issues.

Winner: ESPN talk shows...so much more filler now.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:30 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Necessary move. $450 billion in debt, the state has been run by corrupt thieves that have destroyed cities like Oakland and pockets of SF, once were jewel towns. Explosive growth in Phoenix Denver Vegas Nashville powered in part by people & companies fleeing CA. Taxes are oppressive to fund all of the self destructive policies. Voluntary resettlement. Mark had no choice, under the prudent man theory most would do the same thing given the facts. Sad to see the decay and decline.

Miami objection was political only. Franchises hate each other, Don loathed Davis.
Please provide support material for your assertions, otherwise, it's just accusatory vomit. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm curious how you arrive at "corrupt thieves" and what do you mean by "destroyed." I'm also not privy to the 'explosive growth' due to a corporate exodus from CA.

I could also say that corrupt thieves stole washington and will destroy the country. They already have. Would you like support information for that claim or is just posting it enough to make it true?

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Just the tax situation is a big win for the Players and franchise. From 13.3% to zero. My guess is the fans/visitors/city are going to crank up the taxes. It will be like stadium prices on the strip. $8 for a can of beer.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Why would this ever stop if they keep getting rewarded for it? Why stop extorting if extortion works?

Las Vegas is a much better market than Oakland, unless Plan B was to move further south to San Jose.

Now Raiders have a fan base in three cities.

There's no base in San Jose-- no one is from there, many of its inhabitants couldn't give a shit about NFL football or sports in general.

Besides, the 49ers play 7.5 miles from the center of San Jose downtown.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
No team will have as many off-field issues.


That may be conventional wisdom, but does Vegas REALLY offer vices not readily available in most the other major cities?

There's a culture/mentality that leads to wildness when people visit Vegas, but I suspect that wears off pretty quickly when you're living there.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Oakland is heartbroken again! Vegas however needs a sports team!

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:43 am 
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JPPT1974 wrote:
Oakland is heartbroken again! Vegas however needs a sports team!


They're actually getting one next year with the NHL LV Golden Knights (terrible name btw)


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:43 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Old School Steeler wrote:
Necessary move. $450 billion in debt, the state has been run by corrupt thieves that have destroyed cities like Oakland and pockets of SF, once were jewel towns. Explosive growth in Phoenix Denver Vegas Nashville powered in part by people & companies fleeing CA. Taxes are oppressive to fund all of the self destructive policies. Voluntary resettlement. Mark had no choice, under the prudent man theory most would do the same thing given the facts. Sad to see the decay and decline.

Miami objection was political only. Franchises hate each other, Don loathed Davis.
Please provide support material for your assertions, otherwise, it's just accusatory vomit. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm curious how you arrive at "corrupt thieves" and what do you mean "destroyed." I'm also not privy to the 'explosive growth' due to a corporate exodus from CA.

I could also say that corrupt thieves stole washington and will destroy the country. They already have. Would you like support information for that claim or is just posting it enough to make it true?


Unless you (A) live in California and (B) pay taxes in CA I'd kindly suggest you likely don't have much of a clue to make such a comment that what Old School said was "accusatory vomit".

He's much closer to the mark than he is off base. A good number of California's problems are self inflicted by those who "govern" this state.

Here is something to ponder. California is the most populous state in the nation. California also has the highest state income tax in the nation and is among the highest in corporate tax rates as well.

How is it then that CA also carries the most debt of any state in the nation? A state with tremendous resources and natural advantages yet is buried in debt.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:01 am 
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California is one large series of Detroit like ghettoes with better weather plus Hollywood and Silicon Valley isolated in coastal wealthy enclaves.

A state so stupid it failed once again to build up reservoirs during a drought while letting the ones they had go into disrepair.

A state that refuses to deal with traffic problems and instead diverts your gaze to the white elephant world's slowest high speed train obsolete on arrival.

A state with no reserve on a deadly fault line predicted to rupture that is more concerned about global CO2, while fostering more of that in traffic jams.

It is per capita the stupidest state in the country, having recently passed Mississippi.

In any case, back to the argument that people adapt to Vegas. Mature people do. These are dumb young guys. Imagine Big Ben at 25 playing for Vegas.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:55 am 
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Fellas, fellas. What's the issue here? Everyone knows that if you're not living in the North East, you're living in a culturally, back woods shit-hole. Now that we've found something that we all agree on, let's move on.

Wonder if the stadium will have a retractable roof. Could give the Raiders a significant advantage for September games if they practice outside during the summers. (it's a dry heat.) :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Yup, California has high tax rates, especially the wealthy, but leads the nation with economic growth - more than twice the national average. It is the sixth largest economy in the world. Toughest regulations, ambitious healthcare (for ALL), and high wages because of rapidly growing, innovative, industries. It incubates more startups than anywhere else in the world. So I guess regulations and taxes don't work, right? Startups and small business can't survive? You'd think California would be stagnant and oppressed because of "overregulation and over taxed." But that's not the reality.

Kansas on the other hand, a state with low taxes and little regulation, is the worst in the nation by way of economic growth. In 2015, the economy actually shrank. Texas, also a state with low taxes and little regulation, has a rate of job growth below the national average. Retail sales are way down. The value of Texas exports has been dropping. This scenario is occurring a lot in those states that complain of gubmint intrusion. Shitty growth, opium addiction, and poverty. But hey, they are white, right? Don't tread on me, especially if I'm already swimming in shit and about to starve while leaving my children nothing but carbon and susceptible to earthquakes and a polluted water table because of fracking.

Like every state, California has its problems. You can paint Cali like a shit-hole all you want, but it's not the reality. The debt is big because of wall street, not because of mismanagement or corruption, from what I can tell. It was a result of the dot com bust and the housing crisis. Who's fault was that? Yeah, I know. Another argument.

I'd like to know more about this corporate exodus to middle america, because on the surface it sounds like bullshit political propaganda.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Quote:
Yup, California has high tax rates, especially the wealthy, but leads the nation with economic growth - more than twice the national average.


And yet still has the highest amount of state debt in the nation. Something is wrong with that picture.

And it wasn't because of...

Quote:
The debt is big because of wall street, not because of mismanagement or corruption, from what I can tell. It was a result of the dot com bust and the housing crisis.


I'm surprised you didn't blame CA's debt on capitalism as that seems to be your go to.

I'm sorry but you are WAY off base as to why this state is buried in debt. I mean, you hit Wall Street, the housing crisis, and the dot-com bubble. Why no mention of CA's massive expenditure and welfare programs or how the state has to borrow (take on debt) to fund its public pension liabilities after years and years of gross mismanagement? I suppose those are of no consequence. Nope, it was a bunch of tech stocks getting crushed 15-17 years ago...

About the only accurate thing was this...


Quote:
You can paint Cali like a shit-hole all you want, but it's not the reality


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:00 pm 
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and the housing crisis. Who's fault was that? Yeah, I know. Another argument.


Jimmy Carter planted the seeds. Bill Clinton fertilized & watered them. Wall Street picked the fruit. The tax payer dealt with the rotten soil left behind.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Subtract Silicon Valley megawealth and all that factitious "growth" goes away. That's all the result of money printing by the Fed. On the other hand, with 12 percent of the population, 33 percent of America's families getting TANF assistance live here. Oakland is the fifth most dangerous city in America, despite having pretty much all the perfect conditions that exist in Sydney.

But it's interesting to note that a good lefty like Cor-Ten loves Cali, home of the country's greatest inequality and unaffordable housing. And Obama under whom the SV billionaires made that money for 50K Warriors playoff seats while the middle class stagnated.

It's not just the politics. Even moderate places like Orange County and San Diego County are just too fucking crowded and dirty. For all the bullshit about sustainability, Californians don't seem to be all that into making it happen.

The prettiest and most "sustainable" part of the state, with low crime is actually the northern third, where few people choose to live or visit. When California leaves, I'd like to keep the State of Jefferson.

Ironically, the mid-South such as Tennessee has a lot more of what Californians say the care about when they're trying to impress people.

Well, except weed.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:58 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Subtract Silicon Valley megawealth and all that factitious "growth" goes away. That's all the result of money printing by the Fed. On the other hand, with 12 percent of the population, 33 percent of America's families getting TANF assistance live here. Oakland is the fifth most dangerous city in America, despite having pretty much all the perfect conditions that exist in Sydney.

But it's interesting to note that a good lefty like Cor-Ten loves Cali, home of the country's greatest inequality and unaffordable housing. And Obama under whom the SV billionaires made that money for 50K Warriors playoff seats while the middle class stagnated.

It's not just the politics. Even moderate places like Orange County and San Diego County are just too fucking crowded and dirty. For all the bullshit about sustainability, Californians don't seem to be all that into making it happen.

The prettiest and most "sustainable" part of the state, with low crime is actually the northern third, where few people choose to live or visit. When California leaves, I'd like to keep the State of Jefferson.

Ironically, the mid-South such as Tennessee has a lot more of what Californians say the care about when they're trying to impress people.

Well, except weed.


Dan, you know what's funny about that sig? Isn't punctuation, technically, a separate thing from grammar? Shouldn't the meme be "This is why punctuation matters?" :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:03 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
No team will have as many off-field issues.


That may be conventional wisdom, but does Vegas REALLY offer vices not readily available in most the other major cities?

There's a culture/mentality that leads to wildness when people visit Vegas, but I suspect that wears off pretty quickly when you're living there.


I was just thinking of the proximity to gambling more than anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:44 am 
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I don't think gambling conflicts of interest will be the issue. Raiders are too high profile. Smart point shavers focus on obscure games.

The problem will be booze, drugs and partying.

I think the sign issue is both grammar and punctuation, since the exclamation point divides it into two sentences.

But what? Do I know?

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:06 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
I think the sign issue is both grammar and punctuation, since the exclamation point divides it into two sentences.

But what? Do I know?


But there is nothing grammatically incorrect about either sentence. The faulty punctuation skews the meaning into delicious irony. Grammar in the strict sense, if I am not mistaken, is not about meaning, but structure. It's still funny as hell, but the creator of the meme, certainly not yourself, is either practicing meta-irony, or, possibly, runs the risk of ironically mistaking an issue of punctuation for an issue of grammar. Which is also funny. But not nearly as funny as that sign.

Incidentally, I find the great debate of the dividing line between punctuation and grammar to be more fulfilling than the political poo flinging. I wonder if only liberals separate punctuation from grammar?

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
The problem will be booze, drugs and partying.


Which are no worse than LA, NY, Chicago or Miami and some other cities.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:43 pm 
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First Steelers road game in Las Vegas, I'm there. Always looking for a good excuse 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:10 pm 
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To put California, and particularly LA county in perspective...

http://overflow.solutions/demographic-d ... -s-county/

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Subtract Silicon Valley megawealth and all that factitious "growth" goes away. That's all the result of money printing by the Fed. On the other hand, with 12 percent of the population, 33 percent of America's families getting TANF assistance live here. Oakland is the fifth most dangerous city in America, despite having pretty much all the perfect conditions that exist in Sydney.

But it's interesting to note that a good lefty like Cor-Ten loves Cali, home of the country's greatest inequality and unaffordable housing. And Obama under whom the SV billionaires made that money for 50K Warriors playoff seats while the middle class stagnated.

It's not just the politics. Even moderate places like Orange County and San Diego County are just too fucking crowded and dirty. For all the bullshit about sustainability, Californians don't seem to be all that into making it happen.

The prettiest and most "sustainable" part of the state, with low crime is actually the northern third, where few people choose to live or visit. When California leaves, I'd like to keep the State of Jefferson.

Ironically, the mid-South such as Tennessee has a lot more of what Californians say the care about when they're trying to impress people.

Well, except weed.



Nashville is 4th hotest RE market in the US, Knoxville & Chattanooga are almost as hot. United Van Lines moves 50 LI NY families to middle TN per month. Those that can are fleeing the shitholes. Voluntary resettlement. Irony is many helped create the soon to be 3rd world dump they're leaving. Trick for the cranes in the sky towns is not to let them metastasize their culture.

Positioning for the inevitable, buying tobacco warehouses and farms.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Nashville is 4th hotest RE market in the US, Knoxville & Chattanooga are almost as hot.


Wow. TN is beautiful. I wouldn't mind living in Nashville, at all. Really a very underrated state (well, at least it used to be).

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:55 am 
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Pittsburgh is a Democratic city. Did it get revitalized during state Democratic control? Isn't all this shit regional and local? Aren't the claims being made too general?

And Pittsburgh, hands down, is one of the coolest, best cities in the country. I miss it very, very much. The East End is not even recognizable to me now.

Anyone have any updates on the gentrification of Garfield now that East Liberty is such a hot spot?

Agree, TN is gorgeous. I hope Nashville does not turn into Austin. Super overrated city from my half decade there.

I have my eyes on the middle of nowheresville Montana.

People move to places for all kinds of reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:48 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Old School Steeler wrote:
Nashville is 4th hotest RE market in the US, Knoxville & Chattanooga are almost as hot.


Wow. TN is beautiful. I wouldn't mind living in Nashville, at all. Really a very underrated state (well, at least it used to be).


I've had a couple of clients now over the past couple of years retire and move from CA to TN.

Your $$$$ go so much further with that swap. I am going to seriously look to get out of this state when I retire as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:54 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Old School Steeler wrote:
Nashville is 4th hotest RE market in the US, Knoxville & Chattanooga are almost as hot.


Wow. TN is beautiful. I wouldn't mind living in Nashville, at all. Really a very underrated state (well, at least it used to be).


I've had a couple of clients now over the past couple of years retire and move from CA to TN.

Your $$$$ go so much further with that swap. I am going to seriously look to get out of this state when I retire as well.


Great point worth looking into. My parents just retired and are considering the PA to FL or NC move.

As for myself: I ask WTF was I thinking to myself all the time on why I moved to NY for work. Taxes, costs etc here are fucking ridiculous. I can imagine CA is probably even worse. I certainly will not be in NY for the rest of my life and certainly not in my retirement years.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:11 pm 
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SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
As for myself: I ask WTF was I thinking to myself all the time on why I moved to NY for work. Taxes, costs etc here are fucking ridiculous. I can imagine CA is probably even worse. I certainly will not be in NY for the rest of my life and certainly not in my retirement years.


CA is probably more expensive than NY, almost inconceivably.

One of my gradschool friends told me he hated NY before, but then when he was making enough money to live there he loved it. But for the most part, unless you work on Wall Street or some white-shoes lawfirm, you won't make enough money to enjoy all NY has to offer.

I have no desire to ever live in CA. Maybe San Diego, but I'm not sure I could make enough money there to support the lifestyle I'd want.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:14 pm 
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A lot of moving from CA to TN has to do with getting regrounded and back to nature. Even Rachel Wood, who is clearly not a right winger, said she left CA for TN because she didn't want her son to grow up with pernicious influences.

And here's the other thing...a lot of what Californians claim to dream of...sustainability, green spaces, clean water, clean air, greener transport, blue skies, less ghettoization, better race relationships, equality of income and wealth, affordable housing, a village to raise their kids...can all be found in TN or the Carolinas more than CA. Words are not matching deeds of the California left.

There is not a state in the Union that comes close to the caste system in California...New York City is the only place in the ballpark.

Transport problems are reason enough to leave CA. BTW, that's also true of Austin (totally jumped the shark--Mopac is as bad as the 405) or Phoenix which seems to have looked at the problems of LA/Bay area and imitated all of its mistakes.

Be careful, Nashville, or you are next.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:50 pm 
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Transport problems are reason enough to leave CA.


I think the state's federal aid is tied to how many pot holes liter our roadways.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Provided you don't get attacked by a bear in East TN you can go from backcountry to a gourmet dinner with cold craft beer in under 2 hours. There are controls via development agreements, those same docs in other muni's are fraught with deceptions resulting in infrastructure burden. Interesting suit recently filed by TN naming fed govt as defendant.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 pm
Posts: 4166
Quote:
Provided you don't get attacked by a bear in East TN


Carrying a good 10mm or .357 mag with proper ammo would provide adequate protection from lower 48 bears.

Need larger caliber for the big Alaskan bears.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:18 pm
Posts: 188
Kind of wonder if Al Davis is rolling in his grave over this!

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October Skies!


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:52 pm
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JPPT1974 wrote:
Kind of wonder if Al Davis is rolling in his grave over this!



Absolutely. He's rolling dice. The brooklyn man who borrowed $100 million from the Midwest teamsters to fund acquisition of the Raiders would be overjoyed that he finally really made it.


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