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 Post subject: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:11 pm 
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It's official- the NFL will have a franchise in Sin City.

Ian Crapoport just reported the owners approved the Raiders' relocation to Las Vegas.

Seems fitting on so many levels...

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Apparently Miami was the only team to vote against it.

On a personal aside, I hope that these moves to LA and LV fail miserably. This whole process of sports leagues extorting cities for new stadiums/arenas and tax breaks is bullshit and needs to stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:20 pm 
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They will be in Oakland for a few more seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:27 pm 
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So how long will they be in Vegas before they start whining about moving again?

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
So how long will they be in Vegas before they start whining about moving again?


The question will be will they actually MAKE it to Vegas before they start whining again?

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
So how long will they be in Vegas before they start whining about moving again?


The question will be will they actually MAKE it to Vegas before they start whining again?

True! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Why would this ever stop if they keep getting rewarded for it? Why stop extorting if extortion works?

Las Vegas is a much better market than Oakland, unless Plan B was to move further south to San Jose.

Now Raiders have a fan base in three cities.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:55 pm 
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I remember reading an article once saying that Al Davis should just buy an aircraft carrier and play his games on it. Then he could sail it up and down the coast as the mood strikes him.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:03 am 
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Necessary move. $450 billion in debt, the state has been run by corrupt thieves that have destroyed cities like Oakland and pockets of SF, once were jewel towns. Explosive growth in Phoenix Denver Vegas Nashville powered in part by people & companies fleeing CA. Taxes are oppressive to fund all of the self destructive policies. Voluntary resettlement. Mark had no choice, under the prudent man theory most would do the same thing given the facts. Sad to see the decay and decline.

Miami objection was political only. Franchises hate each other, Don loathed Davis.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:35 am 
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Old School is correct. Even the nicest parts of the Bay area are pretty much an outside sewer/Bedlam. Because it would be wrong to judge. Detroit with better weather.

Can you imagine the 70s Raiders in Vegas? Or the 90s Cowboys? Tooz, Irvin etc. would have gotten into so much trouble.

“Las Vegas turns women into men and men into idiots.” ~ Bugsy Siegel

No team will have as many off-field issues.

Winner: ESPN talk shows...so much more filler now.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:30 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Necessary move. $450 billion in debt, the state has been run by corrupt thieves that have destroyed cities like Oakland and pockets of SF, once were jewel towns. Explosive growth in Phoenix Denver Vegas Nashville powered in part by people & companies fleeing CA. Taxes are oppressive to fund all of the self destructive policies. Voluntary resettlement. Mark had no choice, under the prudent man theory most would do the same thing given the facts. Sad to see the decay and decline.

Miami objection was political only. Franchises hate each other, Don loathed Davis.
Please provide support material for your assertions, otherwise, it's just accusatory vomit. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm curious how you arrive at "corrupt thieves" and what do you mean by "destroyed." I'm also not privy to the 'explosive growth' due to a corporate exodus from CA.

I could also say that corrupt thieves stole washington and will destroy the country. They already have. Would you like support information for that claim or is just posting it enough to make it true?

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Last edited by COR-TEN on Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Just the tax situation is a big win for the Players and franchise. From 13.3% to zero. My guess is the fans/visitors/city are going to crank up the taxes. It will be like stadium prices on the strip. $8 for a can of beer.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Why would this ever stop if they keep getting rewarded for it? Why stop extorting if extortion works?

Las Vegas is a much better market than Oakland, unless Plan B was to move further south to San Jose.

Now Raiders have a fan base in three cities.

There's no base in San Jose-- no one is from there, many of its inhabitants couldn't give a shit about NFL football or sports in general.

Besides, the 49ers play 7.5 miles from the center of San Jose downtown.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
No team will have as many off-field issues.


That may be conventional wisdom, but does Vegas REALLY offer vices not readily available in most the other major cities?

There's a culture/mentality that leads to wildness when people visit Vegas, but I suspect that wears off pretty quickly when you're living there.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Oakland is heartbroken again! Vegas however needs a sports team!

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:43 am 
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JPPT1974 wrote:
Oakland is heartbroken again! Vegas however needs a sports team!


They're actually getting one next year with the NHL LV Golden Knights (terrible name btw)


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:43 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Old School Steeler wrote:
Necessary move. $450 billion in debt, the state has been run by corrupt thieves that have destroyed cities like Oakland and pockets of SF, once were jewel towns. Explosive growth in Phoenix Denver Vegas Nashville powered in part by people & companies fleeing CA. Taxes are oppressive to fund all of the self destructive policies. Voluntary resettlement. Mark had no choice, under the prudent man theory most would do the same thing given the facts. Sad to see the decay and decline.

Miami objection was political only. Franchises hate each other, Don loathed Davis.
Please provide support material for your assertions, otherwise, it's just accusatory vomit. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm curious how you arrive at "corrupt thieves" and what do you mean "destroyed." I'm also not privy to the 'explosive growth' due to a corporate exodus from CA.

I could also say that corrupt thieves stole washington and will destroy the country. They already have. Would you like support information for that claim or is just posting it enough to make it true?


Unless you (A) live in California and (B) pay taxes in CA I'd kindly suggest you likely don't have much of a clue to make such a comment that what Old School said was "accusatory vomit".

He's much closer to the mark than he is off base. A good number of California's problems are self inflicted by those who "govern" this state.

Here is something to ponder. California is the most populous state in the nation. California also has the highest state income tax in the nation and is among the highest in corporate tax rates as well.

How is it then that CA also carries the most debt of any state in the nation? A state with tremendous resources and natural advantages yet is buried in debt.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:01 am 
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California is one large series of Detroit like ghettoes with better weather plus Hollywood and Silicon Valley isolated in coastal wealthy enclaves.

A state so stupid it failed once again to build up reservoirs during a drought while letting the ones they had go into disrepair.

A state that refuses to deal with traffic problems and instead diverts your gaze to the white elephant world's slowest high speed train obsolete on arrival.

A state with no reserve on a deadly fault line predicted to rupture that is more concerned about global CO2, while fostering more of that in traffic jams.

It is per capita the stupidest state in the country, having recently passed Mississippi.

In any case, back to the argument that people adapt to Vegas. Mature people do. These are dumb young guys. Imagine Big Ben at 25 playing for Vegas.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:55 am 
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Fellas, fellas. What's the issue here? Everyone knows that if you're not living in the North East, you're living in a culturally, back woods shit-hole. Now that we've found something that we all agree on, let's move on.

Wonder if the stadium will have a retractable roof. Could give the Raiders a significant advantage for September games if they practice outside during the summers. (it's a dry heat.) :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Yup, California has high tax rates, especially the wealthy, but leads the nation with economic growth - more than twice the national average. It is the sixth largest economy in the world. Toughest regulations, ambitious healthcare (for ALL), and high wages because of rapidly growing, innovative, industries. It incubates more startups than anywhere else in the world. So I guess regulations and taxes don't work, right? Startups and small business can't survive? You'd think California would be stagnant and oppressed because of "overregulation and over taxed." But that's not the reality.

Kansas on the other hand, a state with low taxes and little regulation, is the worst in the nation by way of economic growth. In 2015, the economy actually shrank. Texas, also a state with low taxes and little regulation, has a rate of job growth below the national average. Retail sales are way down. The value of Texas exports has been dropping. This scenario is occurring a lot in those states that complain of gubmint intrusion. Shitty growth, opium addiction, and poverty. But hey, they are white, right? Don't tread on me, especially if I'm already swimming in shit and about to starve while leaving my children nothing but carbon and susceptible to earthquakes and a polluted water table because of fracking.

Like every state, California has its problems. You can paint Cali like a shit-hole all you want, but it's not the reality. The debt is big because of wall street, not because of mismanagement or corruption, from what I can tell. It was a result of the dot com bust and the housing crisis. Who's fault was that? Yeah, I know. Another argument.

I'd like to know more about this corporate exodus to middle america, because on the surface it sounds like bullshit political propaganda.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Quote:
Yup, California has high tax rates, especially the wealthy, but leads the nation with economic growth - more than twice the national average.


And yet still has the highest amount of state debt in the nation. Something is wrong with that picture.

And it wasn't because of...

Quote:
The debt is big because of wall street, not because of mismanagement or corruption, from what I can tell. It was a result of the dot com bust and the housing crisis.


I'm surprised you didn't blame CA's debt on capitalism as that seems to be your go to.

I'm sorry but you are WAY off base as to why this state is buried in debt. I mean, you hit Wall Street, the housing crisis, and the dot-com bubble. Why no mention of CA's massive expenditure and welfare programs or how the state has to borrow (take on debt) to fund its public pension liabilities after years and years of gross mismanagement? I suppose those are of no consequence. Nope, it was a bunch of tech stocks getting crushed 15-17 years ago...

About the only accurate thing was this...


Quote:
You can paint Cali like a shit-hole all you want, but it's not the reality


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Quote:
and the housing crisis. Who's fault was that? Yeah, I know. Another argument.


Jimmy Carter planted the seeds. Bill Clinton fertilized & watered them. Wall Street picked the fruit. The tax payer dealt with the rotten soil left behind.


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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Subtract Silicon Valley megawealth and all that factitious "growth" goes away. That's all the result of money printing by the Fed. On the other hand, with 12 percent of the population, 33 percent of America's families getting TANF assistance live here. Oakland is the fifth most dangerous city in America, despite having pretty much all the perfect conditions that exist in Sydney.

But it's interesting to note that a good lefty like Cor-Ten loves Cali, home of the country's greatest inequality and unaffordable housing. And Obama under whom the SV billionaires made that money for 50K Warriors playoff seats while the middle class stagnated.

It's not just the politics. Even moderate places like Orange County and San Diego County are just too fucking crowded and dirty. For all the bullshit about sustainability, Californians don't seem to be all that into making it happen.

The prettiest and most "sustainable" part of the state, with low crime is actually the northern third, where few people choose to live or visit. When California leaves, I'd like to keep the State of Jefferson.

Ironically, the mid-South such as Tennessee has a lot more of what Californians say the care about when they're trying to impress people.

Well, except weed.

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:58 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Subtract Silicon Valley megawealth and all that factitious "growth" goes away. That's all the result of money printing by the Fed. On the other hand, with 12 percent of the population, 33 percent of America's families getting TANF assistance live here. Oakland is the fifth most dangerous city in America, despite having pretty much all the perfect conditions that exist in Sydney.

But it's interesting to note that a good lefty like Cor-Ten loves Cali, home of the country's greatest inequality and unaffordable housing. And Obama under whom the SV billionaires made that money for 50K Warriors playoff seats while the middle class stagnated.

It's not just the politics. Even moderate places like Orange County and San Diego County are just too fucking crowded and dirty. For all the bullshit about sustainability, Californians don't seem to be all that into making it happen.

The prettiest and most "sustainable" part of the state, with low crime is actually the northern third, where few people choose to live or visit. When California leaves, I'd like to keep the State of Jefferson.

Ironically, the mid-South such as Tennessee has a lot more of what Californians say the care about when they're trying to impress people.

Well, except weed.


Dan, you know what's funny about that sig? Isn't punctuation, technically, a separate thing from grammar? Shouldn't the meme be "This is why punctuation matters?" :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Las Vegas Raiders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:03 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
No team will have as many off-field issues.


That may be conventional wisdom, but does Vegas REALLY offer vices not readily available in most the other major cities?

There's a culture/mentality that leads to wildness when people visit Vegas, but I suspect that wears off pretty quickly when you're living there.


I was just thinking of the proximity to gambling more than anything else.

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