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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:06 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Diidn't see a refutation in that response, Swiss.

Nor even an argument.


Here's the argument.

No one's buying your bullshit about quality wins, pleasure of wins, etc. Only people buying it would be your fellow pointy-headed academicians...who debate regularly on topics like relative happiness, opine about sadness, wax and wane oh so eloquently about the purpose of life.

Rooting for a win is rooting for a win...football, on some level, is a battle of attrition. If the other teams best players can be rendered non-factors via broken bones, torn ligaments, etc., and that helps my team win, I'm all for it.

This is freakin' priceless though...the Aristotle wannabe calling me a pussy. Hahahahahahah!!!


So you get the same enjoyment from the Steelers beating Cleveland as you do from them beating New England?

The exact same enjoyment?

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Diidn't see a refutation in that response, Swiss.

Nor even an argument.


Here's the argument.

No one's buying your bullshit about quality wins, pleasure of wins, etc. Only people buying it would be your fellow pointy-headed academicians...who debate regularly on topics like relative happiness, opine about sadness, wax and wane oh so eloquently about the purpose of life.

Rooting for a win is rooting for a win...football, on some level, is a battle of attrition. If the other teams best players can be rendered non-factors via broken bones, torn ligaments, etc., and that helps my team win, I'm all for it.

This is freakin' priceless though...the Aristotle wannabe calling me a pussy. Hahahahahahah!!!


So you get the same enjoyment from the Steelers beating Cleveland as you do from them beating New England?

The exact same enjoyment?


Assuming your question is for me, Jeems, the answer is NO, but I don't think that's the point.

If the question is whether I would have the same exact enjoyment if the Steelers win in New England in January and Gronk is sitting in a luxury suite with his leg in a cast, as I would if the Steelers beat the Patriots and Gronk played, the answer would be YES.

Plus, and maybe this the real crux of the issue. If some crackpot like Still Lit feels as though he needs to enjoy the game, derive some pleasure from it....well, good for him. I've often said, "We don't enjoy these games; we suffer through them, and hope we're happy in the end"


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:34 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Diidn't see a refutation in that response, Swiss.

Nor even an argument.


Here's the argument.

No one's buying your bullshit about quality wins, pleasure of wins, etc. Only people buying it would be your fellow pointy-headed academicians...who debate regularly on topics like relative happiness, opine about sadness, wax and wane oh so eloquently about the purpose of life.

Rooting for a win is rooting for a win...football, on some level, is a battle of attrition. If the other teams best players can be rendered non-factors via broken bones, torn ligaments, etc., and that helps my team win, I'm all for it.

This is freakin' priceless though...the Aristotle wannabe calling me a pussy. Hahahahahahah!!!


Swiss, saying no one is buying my bullshit is not a refutation. It's an assertion. Certainly not an argument.

Your comment about attrition is irrelevant to all three arguments I gave you. I know you're all for the other guys getting injured.

Show me why my premises are untrue or why the conclusions do not follow from them. I mean, I'm assuming you can't at this point or you would do it.

And to be fair, didn't say your whole person was a pussy. I said in respect of rooting for injuries you're a pussy insofar as you are a fan.

Again, feel free to refute the argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Diidn't see a refutation in that response, Swiss.

Nor even an argument.


Here's the argument.

No one's buying your bullshit about quality wins, pleasure of wins, etc. Only people buying it would be your fellow pointy-headed academicians...who debate regularly on topics like relative happiness, opine about sadness, wax and wane oh so eloquently about the purpose of life.

Rooting for a win is rooting for a win...football, on some level, is a battle of attrition. If the other teams best players can be rendered non-factors via broken bones, torn ligaments, etc., and that helps my team win, I'm all for it.

This is freakin' priceless though...the Aristotle wannabe calling me a pussy. Hahahahahahah!!!


Swiss, saying no one is buying my bullshit is not a refutation. It's an assertion. Certainly not an argument.

Your comment about attrition is irrelevant to all three arguments I gave you. I know you're all for the other guys getting injured.

Show me why my premises are untrue or why the conclusions do not follow from them. I mean, I'm assuming you can't at this point or you would do it.

And to be fair, didn't say your whole person was a pussy. I said in respect of rooting for injuries you're a pussy insofar as you are a fan.

Again, feel free to refute the argument.


It's more that I think your premises, re: enjoyment, pleasure, Steeler Fans Best Interest....are irrelevant, or generously, pale in comparison to simply having our team win.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Again, your thinking my concerns about your position on rooting for injuries are irrelevant does not mean that they are not true or unsound.

So, to be clear, you have not at all called into question anything I have said.

You have merely said that you do not care.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Again, your thinking my concerns about your position on rooting for injuries are irrelevant does not mean that they are not true or unsound.

So, to be clear, you have not at all called into question anything I have said.

You have merely said that you do not care.


I'm saying it depends upon the person....

*Someone like you, who places a premium on their enjoyment, their pleasure, and connects that to beating an opponent who is playing at full strength, in a game where any team is rarely at full strength...maybe you have a point, irrelevant as it might be. And I say this noting that you've commented at least once, that the way the Steelers were playing was "boring as fuck," as though that matters.

*Someone like me, who will enjoy the win against a team like the Patriots, Ravens, etc. regardless of who doesn't play, and wherein Steelers chances to win are enhanced by injuries to the opposition....your position is most definitely not true and unsound.

And I wish I could find you on Rate My Professor....'cuz your students probably think you suck...and.....Boring as Fuck.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:14 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Again, your thinking my concerns about your position on rooting for injuries are irrelevant does not mean that they are not true or unsound.

So, to be clear, you have not at all called into question anything I have said.

You have merely said that you do not care.


I'm saying it depends upon the person....

*Someone like you, who places a premium on their enjoyment, their pleasure, and connects that to beating an opponent who is playing at full strength, in a game where any team is rarely at full strength...maybe you have a point, irrelevant as it might be. And I say this noting that you've commented at least once, that the way the Steelers were playing was "boring as fuck," as though that matters.

*Someone like me, who will enjoy the win against a team like the Patriots, Ravens, etc. regardless of who doesn't play, and wherein Steelers chances to win are enhanced by injuries to the opposition....your position is most definitely not true and unsound.

And I wish I could find you on Rate My Professor....'cuz your students probably think you suck...and.....Boring as Fuck.
If you keep attacking, I'll keep making pop corn. Kinda like watching a train wreck from my back yard deck. Treated I might add, with some nifty details learned from "this old house" on PBS.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:04 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Again, your thinking my concerns about your position on rooting for injuries are irrelevant does not mean that they are not true or unsound.

So, to be clear, you have not at all called into question anything I have said.

You have merely said that you do not care.


I'm saying it depends upon the person....

*Someone like you, who places a premium on their enjoyment, their pleasure, and connects that to beating an opponent who is playing at full strength, in a game where any team is rarely at full strength...maybe you have a point, irrelevant as it might be. And I say this noting that you've commented at least once, that the way the Steelers were playing was "boring as fuck," as though that matters.

*Someone like me, who will enjoy the win against a team like the Patriots, Ravens, etc. regardless of who doesn't play, and wherein Steelers chances to win are enhanced by injuries to the opposition....your position is most definitely not true and unsound.

And I wish I could find you on Rate My Professor....'cuz your students probably think you suck...and.....Boring as Fuck.


But Swiss, you not only admit that I "might have a point" but again merely assert that some of my premises are unsound. Assertions are not refutations.

Please, tell us why. Perhaps you think it is possible to insult your way toward a refutation. You may even think insults are arguments. They are not.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:21 pm 
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You're the one calling me a pussy, but accusing me of using insults. That's nice, professor. The only point I'm ceding is that if you would rather our opponent have no injuries so that you can enjoy the game more...by your standards, then good for you. My standards are different. I don't worry about enjoying the game. So for me, your premise is a false premise


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
So you get the same enjoyment from the Steelers beating Cleveland as you do from them beating New England?

The exact same enjoyment?

Hard to say...if the Steelers ever, you know, actually beat the Pats, well...

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:47 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
You're the one calling me a pussy, but accusing me of using insults. That's nice, professor. The only point I'm ceding is that if you would rather our opponent have no injuries so that you can enjoy the game more...by your standards, then good for you. My standards are different. I don't worry about enjoying the game. So for me, your premise is a false premise


But Swiss, you have not shown why any of my premises are false. You just say they are. Let's have an argument.

And in my defense, my saying that you are a pussy only applies to your fandom and not other spheres of your life. And I concluded you are a pussy fan via a valid argument (modus ponens).

By all means, you are free to show the premises that lead to the conclusion that you are a pussy fan are unsound. Please do!

I enjoy the games whether opposing starters are in or out. I fear you have misunderstood a very elementary argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
So you get the same enjoyment from the Steelers beating Cleveland as you do from them beating New England?

The exact same enjoyment?

Hard to say...if the Steelers ever, you know, actually beat the Pats, well...


We've actually lived to see the Steelers beat the Patriots when the Pats were at full strength.

2011 was not that long ago.

The reason I asked Swiss about Cleveland is by wishing lots of injuries on New England, you want to knock their talent level towards the lesser teams like Cleveland (OK...Cleveland was an exaggeration).

The only distinguishing characteristic would then be the uniforms they wear.

Whatever you personally feel about Lit going full bore logic here...you have to admit it's sweeter to beat the good teams than the bad teams precisely because the good teams are good.

You want to test your team's mettle against the best teams to prove YOU are the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:24 pm 
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Sweeter to beat New England than Cleveland, but just as sweet to beat them with or without Gronk. As I've said, do I think any of those fucks enjoyed their win any less cuz AB was out??


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:03 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Sweeter to beat New England than Cleveland, but just as sweet to beat them with or without Gronk. As I've said, do I think any of those fucks enjoyed their win any less cuz AB was out??


Who cares what they thought?

Explore the question without emotion.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:07 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
You're the one calling me a pussy, but accusing me of using insults. That's nice, professor. The only point I'm ceding is that if you would rather our opponent have no injuries so that you can enjoy the game more...by your standards, then good for you. My standards are different. I don't worry about enjoying the game. So for me, your premise is a false premise


But Swiss, you have not shown why any of my premises are false. You just say they are. Let's have an argument.

And in my defense, my saying that you are a pussy only applies to your fandom and not other spheres of your life. And I concluded you are a pussy fan via a valid argument (modus ponens).

By all means, you are free to show the premises that lead to the conclusion that you are a pussy fan are unsound. Please do!

I enjoy the games whether opposing starters are in or out. I fear you have misunderstood a very elementary argument.


It's not up to me to prove I'm not; it's up to you to prove I am. You saying that you have doesn't make it true.

And I've misunderstood nothing. You've advanced a flawed argument around Steeler Fans Best Interest, degree to which one enjoys games, etc. And again, your method of argument is to make a statement, declare it true, and then state that the other person needs to disprove it. Nice trick if you can pull it off. Maybe your students buy that bullshit; I'm not.

Maybe you haven't checked the Rooting for Injury OP in the other forum. Apparently, plenty of pussy fans on this esteemed website according to The Professor Still Lit.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:11 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Sweeter to beat New England than Cleveland, but just as sweet to beat them with or without Gronk. As I've said, do I think any of those fucks enjoyed their win any less cuz AB was out??


Who cares what they thought?

Explore the question without emotion.


I'm just making a comparison, and disagreeing with a false premise, in my opinion, that we enjoy the wins more when the opponent is at full strength. Your comparing a win vs. New England to a win vs. Cleveland is a false comparison. The more apt comparison is a win vs. New England when they have all their players to a win when they do not. Earth to Jeems. WHEN does an NFL team have ALL of its important players available??

Given a choice, facing a critical opponent with them at full strength versus missing a key player, I'll take the latter every time. My guess....most on this site would as well. No emotion, just reality. But if you disagree, that's your choice. I'll go for the option that increases my team's chances of winning every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:49 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
So you get the same enjoyment from the Steelers beating Cleveland as you do from them beating New England?

The exact same enjoyment?

Hard to say...if the Steelers ever, you know, actually beat the Pats, well...


We've actually lived to see the Steelers beat the Patriots when the Pats were at full strength.

2011 was not that long ago.

The reason I asked Swiss about Cleveland is by wishing lots of injuries on New England, you want to knock their talent level towards the lesser teams like Cleveland (OK...Cleveland was an exaggeration).

The only distinguishing characteristic would then be the uniforms they wear.



Whatever you personally feel about Lit going full bore logic here...you have to admit it's sweeter to beat the good teams than the bad teams precisely because the good teams are good.

You want to test your team's mettle against the best teams to prove YOU are the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:08 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
You're the one calling me a pussy, but accusing me of using insults. That's nice, professor. The only point I'm ceding is that if you would rather our opponent have no injuries so that you can enjoy the game more...by your standards, then good for you. My standards are different. I don't worry about enjoying the game. So for me, your premise is a false premise


But Swiss, you have not shown why any of my premises are false. You just say they are. Let's have an argument.

And in my defense, my saying that you are a pussy only applies to your fandom and not other spheres of your life. And I concluded you are a pussy fan via a valid argument (modus ponens).

By all means, you are free to show the premises that lead to the conclusion that you are a pussy fan are unsound. Please do!


I enjoy the games whether opposing starters are in or out. I fear you have misunderstood a very elementary argument.


It's not up to me to prove I'm not; it's up to you to prove I am. You saying that you have doesn't make it true.

And I've misunderstood nothing. You've advanced a flawed argument around Steeler Fans Best Interest, degree to which one enjoys games, etc. And again, your method of argument is to make a statement, declare it true, and then state that the other person needs to disprove it. Nice trick if you can pull it off. Maybe your students buy that bullshit; I'm not.

Maybe you haven't checked the Rooting for Injury OP in the other forum. Apparently, plenty of pussy fans on this esteemed website according to The Professor Still Lit.


Swiss, I myself, not you, put forward a few arguments that advance certain conclusions about your position on rooting for injuries.

The arguments under dispute are therefore mine, not yours.

In case you have already forgotten, I provided you with three arguments.

You have since then failed to show in any way at all why I am wrong about any of it.

You again state I have given a flawed argument. But of course you fail to say why. I did not merely give a statement and declare it to be true. That's what you are doing. I have given arguments. Major premise, minor premise, conclusion. These are syllogisms. Valid forms of argumentation. Not assertions. Arguments. What is under dispute, therefore, is not the form of my arguments, but the soundness of the premises. Which you have not bothered to assess.

So to repeat, your position on injuries:
1. Seeks inferior quality wins
2. Seeks inferior pleasure
3. Is a pussy fan position

It is not you who needs to be proved wrong, it is me. Because I am the one who gave arguments.

Refute them, dear Swiss.

You may not buy my BS, but you sure as fuck haven't refuted it.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:08 am 
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So let me get this straight, Lit. You spew bullshit...you sort of admit that it's bullshit...but according to the rules of the philosophy department, it stands until I definitively refute it.

That's good work if you can get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:20 am 
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R S wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
We've actually lived to see the Steelers beat the Patriots when the Pats were at full strength.

2011 was not that long ago.

The reason I asked Swiss about Cleveland is by wishing lots of injuries on New England, you want to knock their talent level towards the lesser teams like Cleveland (OK...Cleveland was an exaggeration).

The only distinguishing characteristic would then be the uniforms they wear.



Whatever you personally feel about Lit going full bore logic here...you have to admit it's sweeter to beat the good teams than the bad teams precisely because the good teams are good.

You want to test your team's mettle against the best teams to prove YOU are the best.


Image


Why is it wrong?

I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy a win against a weakened Pats' team...but I definitely enjoyed the 2011 win over them v the 2008 win.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:56 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
So let me get this straight, Lit. You spew bullshit...you sort of admit that it's bullshit...but according to the rules of the philosophy department, it stands until I definitively refute it.

That's good work if you can get it.


No Swiss, I do not in fact think it is BS. I was echoing your own language. I have provided arguments that advance conclusions about your position on rooting for injuries. Arguments you so far are unable to refute. If you do not like those conclusions, by all means, explain why the conclusions do not follow from the premises that advance them.

Definitvely refute? Who cares about definitive. You have yet to do anything to show why my arguments are poor at all, let alone definitively bad.

Instead, you keep deflecting by ranting about my profession. Who gives s fuck what you think about me or my profession. If you're going to claim my arguments are shit, show why.

You're all sound and fury. Show me the substance. Tell us why the arguments fail to secure the conclusions provided.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:57 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
R S wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
We've actually lived to see the Steelers beat the Patriots when the Pats were at full strength.

2011 was not that long ago.

The reason I asked Swiss about Cleveland is by wishing lots of injuries on New England, you want to knock their talent level towards the lesser teams like Cleveland (OK...Cleveland was an exaggeration).

The only distinguishing characteristic would then be the uniforms they wear.



Whatever you personally feel about Lit going full bore logic here...you have to admit it's sweeter to beat the good teams than the bad teams precisely because the good teams are good.

You want to test your team's mettle against the best teams to prove YOU are the best.


Image


Why is it wrong?

I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy a win against a weakened Pats' team...but I definitely enjoyed the 2011 win over them v the 2008 win.


Yes bc my first argument is unassailable. Wins against better opponents are more quality wins. It likely (according to my second argument) follows that those wins are more pleasurable.

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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Round the League (only stuff we give a shit about)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
So let me get this straight, Lit. You spew bullshit...you sort of admit that it's bullshit...but according to the rules of the philosophy department, it stands until I definitively refute it.

That's good work if you can get it.


No Swiss, I do not in fact think it is BS. I was echoing your own language. I have provided arguments that advance conclusions about your position on rooting for injuries. Arguments you so far are unable to refute. If you do not like those conclusions, by all means, explain why the conclusions do not follow from the premises that advance them.

Definitvely refute? Who cares about definitive. You have yet to do anything to show why my arguments are poor at all, let alone definitively bad.

Instead, you keep deflecting by ranting about my profession. Who gives s fuck what you think about me or my profession. If you're going to claim my arguments are shit, show why.

You're all sound and fury. Show me the substance. Tell us why the arguments fail to secure the conclusions provided.


I'm not ranting about your profession, Lit; I'm ranting about YOU within your profession. Notice I say nothing negative about your fellow college professors, Hesske & Stosh. You think that might have something to do with those two guys not being full of shit, not spewing endless mumbo-jumbo? Again, you make a statement and then contend it's true unless someone proves you wrong. Burden of proof is on you, Egghead.

All you've proven is that beating a team that's playing at full strength might be more pleasurable for you. And, that you place a higher priority on your enjoyment of the game than your team, y'know, actually winning the game.

And don't think you're twisting the argument hasn't gone unnoticed. I never suggested that beating the Patriots wasn't a bigger deal than beating the Browns. I DID say that beating the Patriots with their best players perhaps injured wasn't going to diminish my enjoy of that win one single bit. And given that those injuries, part of the game, increase my team's chances of winning, I'll be rooting for those injuries. And, given your position that that's pussy fandom, well....the geeky professor must think there's plenty of pussies on this esteemed website. Check out the OP in the other forum. It's not exactly scientific, but it's a far cry more legit than your simply stating your personal preference.


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