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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:21 am 
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It is estimated that the Norwegian section alone contains 54% of the sea's oil reserves and 45% of its gas reserves. More than half of the North Sea oil reserves have been extracted, according to official sources in both Norway and the UK.


Norway makes quite a bit on money on oil and gas. They are also not a stupid as Venezuela in terms of spending or had the good luck to have a complete infrastructure built before they hit it big with oil.

All of which has nothing to do with the healthcare argument but information to stop any straw-man arguments.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:11 am 
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
It is estimated that the Norwegian section alone contains 54% of the sea's oil reserves and 45% of its gas reserves. More than half of the North Sea oil reserves have been extracted, according to official sources in both Norway and the UK.


Norway makes quite a bit on money on oil and gas. They are also not a stupid as Venezuela in terms of spending or had the good luck to have a complete infrastructure built before they hit it big with oil.

All of which has nothing to do with the healthcare argument but information to stop any straw-man arguments.


Obviously I did not know. Majority state owned, too, so RS has a real point.

I still wonder that we cannot have a minimal form of universal coverage. I have no desire to have some cockamamie scheme implemented that spends us into oblivion. There has to be cost control. But I hate the idea that the health of citizens should have a market value. I think there are ethical demonstrations to be made that not only is health NOT a market good, but that putting a market value on a human being's health is in fact immoral. But who wants to pay for someone else's poor choices? I don't,

The main obstacle as far as I can tell is not how much it would cost in a vacuum, but how much less healthy Americans tend to be relative to European nations. When I was in Cologne city center for 10 days last summer, I saw maybe three obese people, tops.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Since we toss Norway around I can find that they spend 9.3% of their GDP on Healthcare whereas the US spends about 16.9%. Amazingly, Norway is 2nd to the US in healthcare spending % per GDP. Medicare and Medicad combined come to 1.1 Trillion per year vs 551 Billion on the Military ( before any budget changes).

This just leads me to think that it is the healthcare system that is the problem. The US is spending much more than everyone else per person and getting less. It is no solution to your question but more of a lead that it is not easy and throwing money at the current system is not sustainable.

With healthcare it is who will pay for it because the service will get done and someone will be charged.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:01 pm 
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I think a lot of it comes down to the seeming fact that Americans simply do not live as healthily as our European friends. Historically the poor are uninsured and only show up when cancer is already stage whatever and often are unable or choose not to live healthily and many of the better off simply are not healthy by choice.

Maybe I'm wrong on this. If we were a nation of salad eaters and swimmers, how much would healthcare cost?

In principle, it strikes me as totally stupid to pay for middle men to get health. The counter argument is that the govt can't do anything right.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I think a lot of it comes down to the seeming fact that Americans simply do not live as healthily as our European friends.


That's part of it. But, indeed, the problem is primarily structural - our doctors also make 2-3X, at least, what doctors in Europe do. Similar story with hospitalization.

Only 3 countries have a higher per capita PUBLIC spending than the US!
Image

This is also interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... d06b7a694b

And here's the real story (which the above WaPo article further illustrates): Drug costs (comparing to averages for France/Germany/Canada) are only about 10% of the cost gap. Administration about 15%. The rest is hospitalization, doctor visits/outpatien (ambulatory care).
Image

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
That's part of it. But, indeed, the problem is primarily structural - our doctors also make 2-3X, at least, what doctors in Europe do. Similar story with hospitalization. ...


Good points. The AMA is a huge culprit, artificially constraining the supply of practitioners. Of course this not only bloats health care costs, but creates a dangerous shortage of doctors.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:27 pm 
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I find that I am unable to decide my position regarding whether a girl wearing a flag bikini is disrespecting the flag or not. Further research is required. I intend to study these pictures very closely until I have come to a decision. So to speak.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Admire your dedication to objectivity, Poltargyst.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
I find that I am unable to decide my position regarding whether a girl wearing a flag bikini is disrespecting the flag or not. Further research is required. I intend to study these pictures very closely until I have come to a decision. So to speak.

Image

Image

That's about as patriotic as it gets. Murica!

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Y-Town Steel wrote:
That's about as patriotic as it gets. Murica!


Let me tell ya, every red-blooded 'Murican man is gonna salute those flags!

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