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 Post subject: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Can any of you recommend a product that will cut belly fat but not reduce muscle mass elsewhere? Any advice greatly appreciated


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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:56 pm 
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Water and dietary fat or fasting. There is no magic pill. Creatine will store more water but that's not what you're looking for.

You will not lose skeletal muscle (DEXA scans confirm this), but your chest and thigh measurements will go down because some of that was fat. Guys with 46 inch chests tend to be shocked how much of that is fat when they get in shape for real.

Waist size or height to waist ratio is the key parameter. Pay no attention to BMI if you are muscular.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:28 am 
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I'll echo what BYU says.

And I'll add that you can't really "target" specific areas for fat loss. Your body uses its fat stores in whatever order it feels like.

You can build muscle in areas to help them look better once the fat is gone, but you don't have control over where the fat is taken from.

In other words, doing a million situps will build your core muscles, but isn't going to force your body to burn any more fat in that area than it would anywhere else.


Eat a bunch of protein, drink a lot of water, build muscle in areas you want muscle, and bust your butt to lose weight in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I'll echo what BYU says.

And I'll add that you can't really "target" specific areas for fat loss. Your body uses its fat stores in whatever order it feels like.

You can build muscle in areas to help them look better once the fat is gone, but you don't have control over where the fat is taken from.

In other words, doing a million situps will build your core muscles, but isn't going to force your body to burn any more fat in that area than it would anywhere else.


Eat a bunch of protein, drink a lot of water, build muscle in areas you want muscle, and bust your butt to lose weight in general.


That's always the first complaint of women: when they lose weight, it's normally their boobs get hit first

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 5:57 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I'll echo what BYU says.

And I'll add that you can't really "target" specific areas for fat loss. Your body uses its fat stores in whatever order it feels like.

You can build muscle in areas to help them look better once the fat is gone, but you don't have control over where the fat is taken from.

In other words, doing a million situps will build your core muscles, but isn't going to force your body to burn any more fat in that area than it would anywhere else.


Eat a bunch of protein, drink a lot of water, build muscle in areas you want muscle, and bust your butt to lose weight in general.

Sadly, this is true. Eat right, exercise and you'll look & feel better.

Any person/product that says it can target fat burning in specific areas is lying.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 9:03 pm 
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Look at Hartings or Faneca...when they lost all that weight, their chests and biceps went down but a lot of that diameter was actually fat...I'm sure Faneca's DEXA measured fat probably went from 40 to 12 or something like that. But they are much more toned and defined. I'm guessing Faneca went from a 52 to a 42 jacket. WR biceps always look better than OG biceps.

The thing about situps is that they exercise primarily the psoas...which is an invisible muscle going from the back to the front of the femur and running under the abs. It's an important muscle but not a vanity muscle. Leg raises and yoga are actually better for that. There are good crunches and other things that isolate abs, but abs are really earned at the dinner table not the gym.

If you're worried about muscle mass, get a pre-workout DEXA and then repeat after. These scans are now cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 3:01 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:

The thing about situps is that they exercise primarily the psoas...which is an invisible muscle going from the back to the front of the femur and running under the abs. It's an important muscle but not a vanity muscle. Leg raises and yoga are actually better for that. There are good crunches and other things that isolate abs, but abs are really earned at the dinner table not the gym.
.


Funny, my trainer always says "Abs are made in the kitchen"

Sadly I enjoy chocolate and all kinds of other shit that prevents me from accomplishing that

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:34 am 
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Chocolate is one of the healthiest things you can put in your body if it's over 85%.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:13 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Chocolate is one of the healthiest things you can put in your body if it's over 85%.


Do you think I'm eating the high quality Cacao?
I am not

In fact I stopped at McD's last night for a hot fudge sundae after dinner- went completely out of my way to get my fix

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:07 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Funny, my trainer always says "Abs are made in the kitchen"

Sadly I enjoy chocolate and all kinds of other shit that prevents me from accomplishing that



Haha. Exactly my problem, too. I actually work out a TON, but you'd never know it by looking at me. Waaaay too much greasy food and beer.

If I stopped working out and kept my current diet, I'd be over 300 pounds within a month.


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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 3:23 pm 
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Once you cut out sugar and grains for six months, and have sweet chocolate, it actually tastes so sweet it makes you sick. 85% is sweet enough. Coffee with no added sugar actually can taste sweet to me depending on the origin. It's amazing how much flavor receptors upregulate on the standard American diet when you flood them with sugar all the time.

Unless you are genetically exceptional, your diet has to be damn near perfect to get abs after 35.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:02 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Unless you are genetically exceptional, your diet has to be damn near perfect to get abs after 35.


I still say it's a function of diet and exercise. Most people over 30 simply don't have the time or discipline to get it done. I did it in my 20's a couple of times, because I only had to drop 10-15 pounds and I still had a lot of muscle.

15 years of laziness later, though, is another story. Definitely a delicate balance battling metabolism counteractions.....but most people fail only because most people don't have the patience/commitment for a proper program. Most either quit after not getting results quickly enough, or they burn out on the opposite extreme diving in with an unsustainable pace.

I'm both types. I need to recalibrate goals. Get back in the gym regularly. Walk/job regularly. Eat healthier. Do that first, and then start looking at modifications to get fit.

Nobody significantly overweight climbs Everest. But I do think we'd be surprised at some of the body types that manage the feat. The mirror is not a good gauge of fitness. To be lean, I think it takes diet and 10-12 hours of quality exercise a week. I didn't need the diet in my 20's, but I probably did hit 10-12 hours a week of cardio and lifting. It takes a good bit less to be fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:07 am 
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...and of course....you have to give up alcohol...

If your middle age shoulders and elbows can handle it (mine are starting to revolt) in addition to jogging, I cannot praise doing chin ups and pull ups enough...your back, your abs, your chest, your forearms, your biceps, triceps, all of it gets worked.

I jog twice a week, do chin ups and pull ups twice a week, and try my best to hit the rowing machine everyday for at least half an hour.

Kids, mortgage, work...be kind to yourself...life is what it is...just make sure you’re not in less shape than your wife. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:53 pm 
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I recently found a variation on the dumbbell chest press which is pretty cool.

Most of the time the move involves either a straight raise or a natural pronation at the top.

Instead, if you supinate at the top (think "sup" like you'd hold a bowl of soup, the right wrist rotates clockwise) then this engages your upper outer pec major in a way that bench presses with a barbell or conventional dumbbell presses don't. Combine with negative holding the supination as long as you can at least five times the duration of the up move on the inhale. For full effect work it to failure.

The pump afterwards is great and you can actually feel that the whole muscle is engaged.

Thinking of getting a trap (or "hex") squat bar, anyone have experience with that?

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:12 pm 
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I use a hex bar for deadlifts all the time. I feel I can hold form with it better. And with back issues I’ve had in the past (L4/L5 fusion), I don’t want to fuck around and have some poor form lifts screw shit up back there.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:58 pm 
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Hex seems to intuitively make so much sense it's becoming harder to come up with excuses not to do it. I've been doing pistols and other single leg work but there is clearly value to both. One thing about squats is you're obviously working out the shoulders, back and arms at the same time. Single leg spares the back but double leg strengthens is so there are tradeoffs if either knees or back are issues. Getting a full squat rack set up seems like a project and it's obviously worse for your back. I can see it if you're under 35 and free of issues.

Besides lifts, are you doing the farmer's walks and other exercises with the hex?

By the way, there are some amazing studies on the cognitive benefits of heavy leg work and Rhonda Patrick talks about this a lot.

As you get older, sarcopenia, or muscle wasting and decreased mobility is a threat and could cause something fatal like a hip fracture.

Strong legs solve so many problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:00 am 
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On the other hand Andy Ruiz just demonstrated fitness is a complete waste of time!

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:38 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Hex seems to intuitively make so much sense it's becoming harder to come up with excuses not to do it. I've been doing pistols and other single leg work but there is clearly value to both. One thing about squats is you're obviously working out the shoulders, back and arms at the same time. Single leg spares the back but double leg strengthens is so there are tradeoffs if either knees or back are issues. Getting a full squat rack set up seems like a project and it's obviously worse for your back. I can see it if you're under 35 and free of issues.

Besides lifts, are you doing the farmer's walks and other exercises with the hex?

By the way, there are some amazing studies on the cognitive benefits of heavy leg work and Rhonda Patrick talks about this a lot.

As you get older, sarcopenia, or muscle wasting and decreased mobility is a threat and could cause something fatal like a hip fracture.

Strong legs solve so many problems.

I’ve really only used the hex for deadlifts. I occasionally do carries to mix up my routine, and when I do I use kettlebells. I really don’t do a lot of target exercise. I don’t have the time, and I’m 44 now and if work a body part too hard the recovery is too long that it impacts my other activities... mainly cycling. I do a 3x week total body routine that mostly looks like this. Pull ups, dumb bell presses, single arm clean and press, inverted rows, lat flys, bicep curls, either deadlift or goblet squat, box jumps, and finish with some push-ups. I only do two sets of each and I’m in and out of the gym in 40 minutes. It is a good maintenance workout. And I generally cycle 20-30 miles three times a week.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:03 pm 
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I think the other winner for leg workout is the Bulgarian squat with dumbells. It gets in the glutes and hip the way pullups get into the shoulder. And all the ball and socket accessory muscles too.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:20 pm 
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I’m a big proponent of sandbags.

My all time favorite movement is sandbag getups. I can promise you that if you can do 100 of those with an 80# SB, you’re well on your way to doing just about anything you want in fitness.

That said, the best workouts are the ones with a lot of variance and balance, and I’m a huge believer in that. Doing too much of the same movement trains the body to get really good at the one thing, and not much else.


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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:06 pm 
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I never sit down at work, and consequently walk about 9-10 miles a day between that and walking the dog. It's worked so far, but I'm hitting 36 this summer, so I'm guessing my struggles are likely ahead of me.

Getting myself up on vacation to get several miles in before the sweltering sun hits is the fun part in the summers.


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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:10 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I never sit down at work, and consequently walk about 9-10 miles a day between that and walking the dog. It's worked so far, but I'm hitting 36 this summer, so I'm guessing my struggles are likely ahead of me.

Getting myself up on vacation to get several miles in before the sweltering sun hits is the fun part in the summers.



I've been on vacation in Nag's Head this week. My wife and I have been up at 6:30 every morning to get some 3-6 mile runs in.

I am NOT a morning person, so it has been pretty awful for me. But I'm definitely glad I got them all in. Makes me feel slightly better about all the beer and bad foods I've eaten. Granted, those things don't come even remotely close to evening out, but I at least maintained my momentum with being active, instead of going home and being completely lethargic and not wanting to get back into my workouts.

I'm considering signing up for a 12 hour endurance event in August. Which isn't a lot of time to train, but I definitely need something to get my motivated to go hardcore again and get my diet right.


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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:06 pm 
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I've come to believe as many claim that jogging is the red-haired stepchild of mobility, not conferring the all around benefits of sprinting, and not as safe as walking the same distance which basically gets you the same calorie burn without injury risk. I've also started to frown on endurance events as I know three people who have developed afib, and that's a widely reported problem in endurance athletes even in some cases with fatal results. The other problem is how much time do you have? A quick HIIT or quick hard lift with some yoga mixed in seems a better use of time. As you get older, sarcopenia or loss of muscle mass lead to a whole host of problems and endurance can actually exacerbate that. And who wants to negate muscle mass gains?

I really don't see the benefit of training for a marathon vs. a fast mile or even a quarter, which adds the benefit of strength minus the relative risk of injury. I think for a lot of people they like it because they can disengage and tune out, but I've come to prefer activities that require concentration and intensity.

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 Post subject: Re: Supplement question for fitness posters
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:39 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
I've come to believe as many claim that jogging is the red-haired stepchild of mobility, not conferring the all around benefits of sprinting, and not as safe as walking the same distance which basically gets you the same calorie burn without injury risk. I've also started to frown on endurance events as I know three people who have developed afib, and that's a widely reported problem in endurance athletes even in some cases with fatal results. The other problem is how much time do you have? A quick HIIT or quick hard lift with some yoga mixed in seems a better use of time. As you get older, sarcopenia or loss of muscle mass lead to a whole host of problems and endurance can actually exacerbate that. And who wants to negate muscle mass gains?

I really don't see the benefit of training for a marathon vs. a fast mile or even a quarter, which adds the benefit of strength minus the relative risk of injury. I think for a lot of people they like it because they can disengage and tune out, but I've come to prefer activities that require concentration and intensity.



My endurance events don’t let you tune out at all. They’re team oriented with many varied evolutions within the event, including problem solving qualities.

Which is what I really love about them. You can’t just run a bunch of miles and think you can go into one of these events and thrive. A well rounded fitness routine is an absolute must. Running is actually pretty pointless when training for them. And preparation is as much mental as it is physical. We do much of our training overnight to simulate the mental fatigue aspect of it because being able to think when exhausted is vital.


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