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 Post subject: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:10 am 
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/21/entertai ... index.html

I don't even understand this behavior.
But this isn't the first time someone has done this: making false reports under the veil of racism

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Woman who wrote racist 'ape' post about Michelle Obama defrauded FEMA $18K, report says

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 903251002/

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:32 pm 
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Arrested Coast Guard Officer Allegedly Planned Attack 'On A Scale Rarely Seen'

Quote:
Court documents indicate Hasson espoused extremist and white supremacist views for years — aspiring to establish a "white homeland" — and say he is a "domestic terrorist bent on committing acts dangerous to human life that are intended to affect government conduct."


https://www.npr.org/2019/02/20/69647036 ... rarely-see

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:24 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Arrested Coast Guard Officer Allegedly Planned Attack 'On A Scale Rarely Seen'

Quote:
Court documents indicate Hasson espoused extremist and white supremacist views for years — aspiring to establish a "white homeland" — and say he is a "domestic terrorist bent on committing acts dangerous to human life that are intended to affect government conduct."


https://www.npr.org/2019/02/20/69647036 ... rarely-see


I'm not sure I follow the reason you shared these articles?

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Arrested Coast Guard Officer Allegedly Planned Attack 'On A Scale Rarely Seen'

Quote:
Court documents indicate Hasson espoused extremist and white supremacist views for years — aspiring to establish a "white homeland" — and say he is a "domestic terrorist bent on committing acts dangerous to human life that are intended to affect government conduct."


https://www.npr.org/2019/02/20/69647036 ... rarely-see


I'm not sure I follow the reason you shared these articles?


Because the legitimate, genuine cases of racism and hate crimes vastly outnumber the kind of thing Smollett did. And you are subtly using this particular case to delegitimize those cases.

At least that's my take on COR-TEN's posts. I'll let him answer for himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:15 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Because the legitimate, genuine cases of racism and hate crimes vastly outnumber the kind of thing Smollett did. And you are subtly using this particular case to delegitimize those cases.

At least that's my take on COR-TEN's posts. I'll let him answer for himself.
I think you pretty much covered it.

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:38 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:

Because the legitimate, genuine cases of racism and hate crimes vastly outnumber the kind of thing Smollett did. And you are subtly using this particular case to delegitimize those cases.

At least that's my take on COR-TEN's posts. I'll let him answer for himself.


I'm sorry you think my sharing that somehow delegtimizes true situations.

My question was exactly "why would someone do this?"

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
My question was exactly "why would someone do this?"
Because they are intensely stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:27 pm 
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There has been a large increase in these false accusations. Everyone wants so badly to be a victim these days.

So much so that even when they are a victim of nothing they’ll go to great lengths fabricating hate and racism where none existed.

It’s pretty disgusting.

Plenty of videos online of people claiming assault and/or racism at the hands of police only to have bodycam footage prove it all to be a fairytale.

You’d think if racism is so openly rampant one would not need to fabricate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:31 pm 
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955876 wrote:
There has been a large increase in these false accusations. Everyone wants so badly to be a victim these days.

So much so that even when they are a victim of nothing they’ll go to great lengths fabricating hate and racism where none existed.

It’s pretty disgusting.

Plenty of videos online of people claiming assault and/or racism at the hands of police only to have bodycam footage prove it all to be a fairytale.

You’d think if racism is so openly rampant one would not need to fabricate it.


Actually happened near me: someone painted swastikas on a garage door. Media made a HUUUUUUUGE deal about this...next few days it was all about how this certain town is going downhill, the community leaders held forums, etc.

Then it came out that a Jewish person in the neighborhood did this. Then barely a peep made by the media about the resolution of the case.
People's motivations scare me

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
955876 wrote:
There has been a large increase in these false accusations. Everyone wants so badly to be a victim these days.

So much so that even when they are a victim of nothing they’ll go to great lengths fabricating hate and racism where none existed.

It’s pretty disgusting.

Plenty of videos online of people claiming assault and/or racism at the hands of police only to have bodycam footage prove it all to be a fairytale.

You’d think if racism is so openly rampant one would not need to fabricate it.


Actually happened near me: someone painted swastikas on a garage door. Media made a HUUUUUUUGE deal about this...next few days it was all about how this certain town is going downhill, the community leaders held forums, etc.

Then it came out that a Jewish person in the neighborhood did this. Then barely a peep made by the media about the resolution of the case.
People's motivations scare me


Haha, that reminds me of this time when a gunman walked into a Syngogue in my town and shot 11 people.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:17 pm 
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And how does a disgusting massacre relate to false claims of racism?


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:25 pm 
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955876 wrote:
And how does a disgusting massacre relate to false claims of racism?


Because you’re making unfounded claims of an increase in “false claims of racism” when there is actual, statistical evidence that violent crimes, intimidation, and harassment of minorities has increased dramatically since 2016.

You’re more angry about “false claims of racism” than actual racism.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Have you run the numbers of the type of harrassment and violence that ANTIFA has been responsible for as well? Doubt it.

And you sure have a bad habit of determining what others think or do not think without anything to base it on.

What makes you believe I’m “more angry” about false claims of racism than I am actual racism?

Show me a case of actual racism and I’ll povide my opinion.

There have been several false claims of racism since Trump was elected. Not sure how you can say it’s an unfounded claim.

Do I really need to spend the time on google to pull up all the false cries of racism that people have tried to make recently?

Which begs the question, if there is so much actual racism taking place, why are people so inclined completely fabricate it where none occurred?


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:01 am 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
955876 wrote:
And how does a disgusting massacre relate to false claims of racism?


Because you’re making unfounded claims of an increase in “false claims of racism” when there is actual, statistical evidence that violent crimes, intimidation, and harassment of minorities has increased dramatically since 2016.

You’re more angry about “false claims of racism” than actual racism.


Source?
And don't give me the SPLC.

Because in the example I gave above- they still list that as a "hate crime" even though it was proven to be false. So why don't they remove it? It's terrible data collection methodology.

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:32 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Laying the Wood wrote:
955876 wrote:
And how does a disgusting massacre relate to false claims of racism?


Because you’re making unfounded claims of an increase in “false claims of racism” when there is actual, statistical evidence that violent crimes, intimidation, and harassment of minorities has increased dramatically since 2016.

You’re more angry about “false claims of racism” than actual racism.


Source?
And don't give me the SPLC.

Because in the example I gave above- they still list that as a "hate crime" even though it was proven to be false. So why don't they remove it? It's terrible data collection methodology.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/h ... -2017.html
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... statistics

You probably don't believe the FBI though.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:57 am 
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Laying the Wood wrote:


Did you bother reading the article? Because there seems to be a consensus amongst those interviewed that the increase is related to more people coming forward to report those crimes, rather than necessarily an uptick in actual events
Furthermore, the data collection seems to be amiss. The entire city of Miama had ZERO hate crimes? Are you going to believe that? If not, then you have to begin questioning the ENTIRE study. I realize the FBI can only report what it gets, but there is something majorly askew if you're relying on this information alone.

********************************
But hate crimes remain vastly underreported. Only 12.6 percent of the agencies in the F.B.I. report indicated that hate crimes had occurred in their jurisdictions in 2017. Agencies as large as the Miami and Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Departments reported zero. (A spokeswoman for the Las Vegas police later said that the report was made in error and that there were actually 61 in the jurisdiction last year.)

“I wouldn’t feel too confident in those numbers,” said Sim J. Singh, the senior advocacy manager for the Sikh Coalition, a civil rights organization. Data shows that hate crime victims often do not trust that reporting will help them.
*********************************

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:16 pm 
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He's saying that hate crimes are underreported, and he's not confident in those numbers, and believes them to be higher... due to underreporting.

Do you truly believe that bigots haven't been emboldened since Trump was elected?

COR-TEN hit the nail on the head with willful ignorance.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
He's saying that hate crimes are underreported, and he's not confident in those numbers, and believes them to be higher... due to underreporting.

Do you truly believe that bigots haven't been emboldened since Trump was elected?

COR-TEN hit the nail on the head with willful ignorance.


I'll believe that when we have RELIABLE FACTUAL EVIDENCE to prove such a supposition.
Until something reliable comes out (and not supposition and weak data points) I'm not willing to make such a claim.

Just like I believe that there was an uptick in violence against police officers under Obama due to his comments against the police.
I'm not comfortable making that claim because the sources I've seen have faulty methodology. Even data that supports my position.

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
He's saying that hate crimes are underreported, and he's not confident in those numbers, and believes them to be higher... due to underreporting.

Do you truly believe that bigots haven't been emboldened since Trump was elected?

COR-TEN hit the nail on the head with willful ignorance.


Speaking of willful ignorance...You're assuming that it's all MAGA-hatted Trumpkins that are committing these crimes.

Anti-semetic attacks are up 25% in New York City: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/419512-jewish-man-assaulted-from-behind-in-new-york
Here's a long list of incidents at Ivy League Schools and places like UC Berkeley: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/12/05/anti-semitic-incidents-surge-college-campuses-after-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting

These aren't exactly right-wing hotbeds.

Beyond that, Incidents of hate crimes in the USA have jumped from .2 per 100,000 to .3 per 100,000. That's not even a statistically significant increase. Of course one hate crime is too many, but none of this is happening on a scale the media would have you believe.

If you want a similar story, just look at gun crime. By watching media/politicians, you'd never know that gun violence is at a 40 year low.

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Man, I hope you guys are alright with coming down on this side of history.

I would bet in 5 years you’ll deny ever supporting him.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Man, I hope you guys are alright with coming down on this side of history.

I would bet in 5 years you’ll deny ever supporting him.

Who ever said I was a Trump supporter? There you go making assumptions again.

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Speaking of willful ignorance...You're assuming that it's all MAGA-hatted Trumpkins that are committing these crimes.

Anti-semetic attacks are up 25% in New York City: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/419512-jewish-man-assaulted-from-behind-in-new-york
Here's a long list of incidents at Ivy League Schools and places like UC Berkeley: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/12/05/anti-semitic-incidents-surge-college-campuses-after-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting

These aren't exactly right-wing hotbeds.

Beyond that, Incidents of hate crimes in the USA have jumped from .2 per 100,000 to .3 per 100,000. That's not even a statistically significant increase. Of course one hate crime is too many, but none of this is happening on a scale the media would have you believe.

If you want a similar story, just look at gun crime. By watching media/politicians, you'd never know that gun violence is at a 40 year low.
Where did you get those stats from? Gun violence is at a 40 year low?

Quote:
Last year marked a record-high for gun-related deaths in the U.S. in nearly four decades, according to new data released from Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and Prevention's WONDER database.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/421306-cdc-report-us-gun-deaths-reach-highest-level-in-nearly-40-years

As an anecdote, you don't have to be in a red state to have incidences of hate crimes. I'm in NYC and there are pockets that are definitely pro dumpster and make their allegiance known. Check this guy out :

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/qu ... -1.3825466

That particular article doesn't mention he had trump stickers as well as nazi memorabilia. But this one does :
Quote:
This includes threatening them with fines or eviction if they do something he doesn't like, residents say, as well as decorating the lobby with a bizarre collage that includes images of infamous dictators, a swastika, a bloodied soldier, a Jim Crow-like caricature of a black man, men holding guns and posters supporting President Donald Trump.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170824/sunnyside/nazi-posters-condo-lobby-investigation-van-bramer-39th-place

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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Laying the Wood wrote:
Man, I hope you guys are alright with coming down on this side of history.

I would bet in 5 years you’ll deny ever supporting him.

Who ever said I was a Trump supporter? There you go making assumptions again.


I think you equally stupid if you voted for Gary Johnson or some such shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Jussie Smollett Charged with False Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:18 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Where did you get those stats from? Gun violence is at a 40 year low?

Quote:
Last year marked a record-high for gun-related deaths in the U.S. in nearly four decades, according to new data released from Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and Prevention's WONDER database.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... y-40-years

From here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/14/most-americans-incorrectly-think-gun-homicides-have-gotten-worse-not-better/

The link you provided lumps in suicides (it even attributes the increase in gun deaths almost entirely to suicides). If you're looking strictly at gun crime, we're still way below where things were in the 80s and 90s.
Here's another study on the subject: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/


COR-TEN wrote:
As an anecdote, you don't have to be in a red state to have incidences of hate crimes. I'm in NYC and there are pockets that are definitely pro dumpster and make their allegiance known. Check this guy out :

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/qu ... -1.3825466

That particular article doesn't mention he had trump stickers as well as nazi memorabilia. But this one does :
Quote:
This includes threatening them with fines or eviction if they do something he doesn't like, residents say, as well as decorating the lobby with a bizarre collage that includes images of infamous dictators, a swastika, a bloodied soldier, a Jim Crow-like caricature of a black man, men holding guns and posters supporting President Donald Trump.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201708 ... 39th-place

I know that, and i can also give plenty of examples of non-whites committing hate crimes, such as (to name a few):
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/03/us/new-york-temple-antisemitic-messages/index.html
https://www.kxly.com/news/former-wsu-student-who-threatened-to-bomb-campus-pleads-guilty/716877263
https://abc7ny.com/news/man-charged-after-swastikas-found-at-long-island-college/1666228/

The accusation was that Trump is causing the increase in hate crimes. The evidence for that is sketchy, to say the least.

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