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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:50 am 
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955876 wrote:
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Only a half dozen states — California, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oregon, Texas and Washington — currently allow undocumented students to receive state-funded financial aid,


Meanwhile, the tax paying citizens in states like CA get to see the tuition bill for their own kids go higher and higher and higher....


No shit.. My taxes here in El Paso are 5200.. per year.. I live a block from a high school and middle school.. you should see all the Chihuahua Mexico plates lined up every day dropping the kids off to school.. Who do you think pays for that shit??
Bet you didn't know this.. If you come from Juarez and shop in El Paso and you don't want to not pay taxes on the goods you buy in the USA you stop at the Manifesto Office and get a tax free paper you don't pay taxes on purchases in the USA..

How nice.. Free Schooling paid for by the tax paying citizens of the great state of Texas.. Plus I get to pay taxes on all my purchases but the Illegals don't.. Great fucking system we got going on here..


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:31 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Only a half dozen states — California, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oregon, Texas and Washington — currently allow undocumented students to receive state-funded financial aid,


Meanwhile, the tax paying citizens in states like CA get to see the tuition bill for their own kids go higher and higher and higher....


Do the kids qualify for financial aid? If so they are in the same boat.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Tundralag wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
Only a half dozen states — California, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oregon, Texas and Washington — currently allow undocumented students to receive state-funded financial aid,


Meanwhile, the tax paying citizens in states like CA get to see the tuition bill for their own kids go higher and higher and higher....


No shit.. My taxes here in El Paso are 5200.. per year.. I live a block from a high school and middle school.. you should see all the Chihuahua Mexico plates lined up every day dropping the kids off to school.. Who do you think pays for that shit??
Bet you didn't know this.. If you come from Juarez and shop in El Paso and you don't want to not pay taxes on the goods you buy in the USA you stop at the Manifesto Office and get a tax free paper you don't pay taxes on purchases in the USA..

How nice.. Free Schooling paid for by the tax paying citizens of the great state of Texas.. Plus I get to pay taxes on all my purchases but the Illegals don't.. Great fucking system we got going on here..


Were these students born in the US, but live in Mexico? Because if that's so, they are American citizens who live in Mexico. They'd have to present a passport to get across the border.

Or are you saying that a bunch of illegals are rolling around TX in cars with Mexican plates dropping their illegal kids off at school?

No doubt undocumented kids are going to our schools. But when you point out that a bunch of people with Mexican plates are dropping off kids, aren't these kids likely US citizens because born here?

I'm a native Texan.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:25 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Were these students born in the US, but live in Mexico? Because if that's so, they are American citizens who live in Mexico. They'd have to present a passport to get across the border.

Or are you saying that a bunch of illegals are rolling around TX in cars with Mexican plates dropping their illegal kids off at school?

No doubt undocumented kids are going to our schools. But when you point out that a bunch of people with Mexican plates are dropping off kids, aren't these kids likely US citizens because born here?

I'm a native Texan.
Frustration, fear, and jealousy.

And I've already posted this in this thread, and it was ignored :

Just because one persons taxes and tuition is rising, doesn't mean it's the immigrant or asylum seeker's fault. But that's how it's being sold.

You want to know what's worse? $3.2 BILLION dollars every year to Israel, the ultimate welfare state. Permanent Corporate tax cuts, temporary for the rest. De-regulating industry, allowing them to shit on the environment for profits. Originalists on the SCOTUS and federal courts. Those have a far greater impact than some undocumented immigrants getting free healthcare.

And if security is such a big deal, why did most of corporate america lobby to get rid a tax for use of ports of entry for commerce? It was suggested it would cost every company importing from overseas $75 per container to provide security in case someone smuggles either drugs or weapons (bombs) into this country. That seems like a far bigger threat when you consider nuclear weapons being detonated in S.F. Seattle, New York, Portland, Or. And how exactly do you think all that fentanyl came in from china?

Sure, america has borders, but it’s economy has been built by cheap labor, illegal immigration, and by stealing resources in one way or another from almost every country in the world. It’s what super powers do. Especially ones that only have a 300 year history that is defined by immigration. Legal and not. Having “openish” borders has been the norm for a couple of centuries with no perceivable impact on it’s development (if anything, a positive addition), and suddenly now it’s a problem? That doesn’t mean I don't advocate border protection. I do.

And as I've insinuated earlier, the US has the responsibility of doing penance.

Allowing 12 million immigrants to suck the tete of the american economy means nothing in a nation with a GDP that dwarfs almost every other country in the world and has a population of 325 million. The US owes the rest of the world, and absorbing some free loaders pales in comparison to the other free loaders that are home grown. You want hard working american citizens to make more money? Stop giving it to rich people and corporations. Raise the minimum wage to something livable. The fact that legal and illegal immigrants are a burden on the american economy is stupid and baseless. I get people's frustration, but directing at the right areas seems more prudent. Otherwise, it just looks like (and in many cases is) racism.

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Last edited by COR-TEN on Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:42 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
Only a half dozen states — California, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oregon, Texas and Washington — currently allow undocumented students to receive state-funded financial aid,


Meanwhile, the tax paying citizens in states like CA get to see the tuition bill for their own kids go higher and higher and higher....


Do the kids qualify for financial aid? If so they are in the same boat.


Not sure which kids you are referring to, mine or the ones here illegally and receiving tuition waivers and other financial assistance at CA schools?

CA has lots of college programs for low income and immigrant/refugees.

Those that can’t check those boxes get to pay full price. And that price keeps going higher and higher and higher.

So not sure what “same boat” you are referring. Students are definitely not in the same boat when it comes to which have to pay and how much...


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Just because one persons taxes and tuition is rising, doesn't mean it's the immigrant or asylum seeker's fault. But that's how it's being sold.


That is hilarious. Hilarious because those on the left and particularly the socialists contingent love to play the game of “these people are poor because those people over there are rich”. We must “redistribute” to correct that inequality.

But now that the argument has shifted so has the response.

And ummm, people going to school for free or at greatly reduced tuition does make the cost more expensive for those who must pay.

NOTHING is free. Somebody is to cover it. It’s basic math and economics.

What if a car dealer gave away one of say every 40 cars it sells? Could you say that a few people getting a free car isnt raising the cost for those that had to pay?

When something is given away for “free” then someone else is paying more to cover the difference.

You think that free tuition is coming out of the Dean’s salary?


Last edited by 955876 on Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Quote:
Stop giving it to rich people


Yep, most rich people got to where they are because it’s been “given” to them... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:33 pm 
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955876 wrote:
jebrick wrote:

Do the kids qualify for financial aid? If so they are in the same boat.


Not sure which kids you are referring to, mine or the ones here illegally and receiving tuition waivers and other financial assistance at CA schools?

CA has lots of college programs for low income and immigrant/refugees.

Those that can’t check those boxes get to pay full price. And that price keeps going higher and higher and higher.

So not sure what “same boat” you are referring. Students are definitely not in the same boat when it comes to which have to pay and how much...


The first bitch ( not by 95) was about illegal immigrants getting free college. I could find nothing on that and posted what I could find which is some states allow undocumented kids to apply for financial aid. Then the bitch was that college costs a lot. My point is what does that have to do with the undocumented kids being allowed to apply for financial aid? Any kid can apply for financial aid. Some get it and some don't. We can go off on a tanget on college cost and why they are like that but it really has nothing to do with some states allowing undocumented kids to apply for financial aid.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:48 pm 
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What I think you are missing Jebrick is that it’s a different application based on citizenship.

Non-citizens don’t qualify for federal student aid. So some states have adopted their own programs for this. State funds are used to provide fee waivers, reduced tuition, etc etc.

But it isn’t free with the exception of the actual recipient. The cost per student is still what it is. So those that have to pay end up paying more as prices for tuition, books, room & board, parking, health fee etc continue to rise.

You are looking at this through the lens of all students apply for aid via the same channels and thus are subject to the same cost. They don’t and are not.

I’m not against educating immigrants. What I’m against is paying extremely high prices because my W2 says that my kid doesn’t qualify for any aid all the while there are kids in my kids classes there on tuition waivers.

People get a bit touchy knowing it is going to cost them approx. $100k in some cases for 4 years of school all the while someone here illegally steps into the same classroom at greatly reduced cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:01 pm 
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Quote:
We can go off on a tanget on college cost and why they are like that but it really has nothing to do with some states allowing undocumented kids to apply for financial aid.


See my post above. They are not applying for aid in the same manner as say my kids would.

They are applying (based on their immigration status) for fee waivers and reduced tuition.

One kid attending on a waiver makes it cost that much more for the kids that are not on a waiver.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:07 pm 
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955876 wrote:
People get a bit touchy knowing it is going to cost them approx. $100k in some cases for 4 years of school.


It's so disgusting.

(1) Kill university sports. If students want to form clubs, fine.
(2) Kill a bunch of administrators. There are too many and many have fuck all to do with education.
(3) Kill the amenities. Again, BS facilities that have fuck all to do with education.
(4) Reform student aid. Make proportion of aid offered to attend a school proportional to its tuition. The lower the tuition, the more aid Fed backs, the more tuition, the less aid the govt backs for your school. Also, schools above a certain endowment line have to devote a certain percentage of the endowment ROI to giving scholarships and tuition remission in return for govt backed loans to go to your rich as fucj school. Harvard has like 52 billion dollars! Fuck you! Harvard! NO GOVT backed loans for your BS school!

Endeth rant.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:08 pm 
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955876 wrote:
What I think you are missing Jebrick is that it’s a different application based on citizenship.

Non-citizens don’t qualify for federal student aid. So some states have adopted their own programs for this. State funds are used to provide fee waivers, reduced tuition, etc etc.

But it isn’t free with the exception of the actual recipient. The cost per student is still what it is. So those that have to pay end up paying more as prices for tuition, books, room & board, parking, health fee etc continue to rise.

You are looking at this through the lens of all students apply for aid via the same channels and thus are subject to the same cost. They don’t and are not.

I’m not against educating immigrants. What I’m against is paying extremely high prices because my W2 says that my kid doesn’t qualify for any aid all the while there are kids in my kids classes there on tuition waivers.

People get a bit touchy knowing it is going to cost them approx. $100k in some cases for 4 years of school all the while someone here illegally steps into the same classroom at greatly reduced cost.


As you point out, legal citizens have more options and college costs are up.

Again, this has nothing to do with the current debate on either border security or Presidential overreach. I'm sure i can find some threads that you discuss Presidential overreach with Obama. I disagreed with what he did then and really disagree now.

To me, the worst part is the Republicans in congress will back Trump to their own detriment. I am not talking about votes but talking about their Constitutional powers under Article 1 section 9.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:09 pm 
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So somebody making $100K + a year deserves special privileges over a poor, destitute, non-citizen immigrant or asylum seeker.

That says it all. Talk about greedy and a false sense of martyrdom.

Got it.

And as far as the others that don't make $100K a year? Their "entitlement" programs are being decimated and dissolved. So if you are struggling, and don't get the assistance, of course you're gonna look at an immigrant that gets free healthcare as an insult.

If you want to fix shit, change the designation of $17K a year/ individual as a benchmark for "poverty."

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:12 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
People get a bit touchy knowing it is going to cost them approx. $100k in some cases for 4 years of school.


It's so disgusting.

(1) Kill university sports. If students want to form clubs, fine.
(2) Kill a bunch of administrators. There are too many and many have fuck all to do with education.
(3) Kill the amenities. Again, BS facilities that have fuck all to do with education.
(4) Reform student aid. Make proportion of aid offered to attend a school proportional to its tuition. The lower the tuition, the more aid Fed backs, the more tuition, the less aid the govt backs for your school. Also, schools above a certain endowment line have to devote a certain percentage of the endowment ROI to giving scholarships and tuition remission in return for govt backed loans to go to your rich as fucj school. Harvard has like 52 billion dollars! Fuck you! Harvard! NO GOVT backed loans for your BS school!

Endeth rant.


Either the Feds need to revise who they will guarantee loans for or stop guaranteeing loans. This is the same as mortgage back securities but with people. The banks have zero skin in the game and will sell a kid any college they want for a degree in art history.

But that is for another thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:14 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
So somebody making $100K + a year deserves special privileges over a poor, destitute, non-citizen immigrant or asylum seeker.

That says it all. Talk about greedy and a false sense of martyrdom.

Got it.

And as far as the others that don't make $100K a year? Their "entitlement" programs are being decimated and dissolved. So if you are struggling, and don't get the assistance, of course you're gonna look at an immigrant that gets free healthcare as an insult.

If you want to fix shit, change the designation of $17K a year/ individual as a benchmark for "poverty."


If you do not want your kids to be saddled under a mountain of debt that is going to hold them back in life and wish to pay as much as possible of their college tuition, a household income of 100K all of a sudden is not that much money anymore.

The price of a college tuition is an absolute joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:18 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
People get a bit touchy knowing it is going to cost them approx. $100k in some cases for 4 years of school.


It's so disgusting.

(1) Kill university sports. If students want to form clubs, fine.
(2) Kill a bunch of administrators. There are too many and many have fuck all to do with education.
(3) Kill the amenities. Again, BS facilities that have fuck all to do with education.
(4) Reform student aid. Make proportion of aid offered to attend a school proportional to its tuition. The lower the tuition, the more aid Fed backs, the more tuition, the less aid the govt backs for your school. Also, schools above a certain endowment line have to devote a certain percentage of the endowment ROI to giving scholarships and tuition remission in return for govt backed loans to go to your rich as fucj school. Harvard has like 52 billion dollars! Fuck you! Harvard! NO GOVT backed loans for your BS school!

Endeth rant.


Either the Feds need to revise who they will guarantee loans for or stop guaranteeing loans. This is the same as mortgage back securities but with people. The banks have zero skin in the game and will sell a kid any college they want for a degree in art history.

But that is for another thread.


Indeed, but my number 4 is trying to make it so that college does not become a luxury only for the rich. If the Fed gets out of the biz, only the richest schools (fuck you Harvard!) will be able to offer scholarships and tuition remission. So we need reform. I say tie that amount of backing you get from the feds to how low your tuition is. The lower the tag, the more loan money the Fed will guarantee. And if your tuition crosses a certain threshold, no Fed backing. You get cut off.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
So somebody making $100K + a year deserves special privileges over a poor, destitute, non-citizen immigrant or asylum seeker.

That says it all. Talk about greedy and a false sense of martyrdom.

Got it.

And as far as the others that don't make $100K a year? Their "entitlement" programs are being decimated and dissolved. So if you are struggling, and don't get the assistance, of course you're gonna look at an immigrant that gets free healthcare as an insult.

If you want to fix shit, change the designation of $17K a year/ individual as a benchmark for "poverty."


If you do not want your kids to be saddled under a mountain of debt that is going to hold them back in life and wish to pay as much as possible of their college tuition, a household income of 100K all of a sudden is not that much money anymore.

The price of a college tuition is an absolute joke.
Totally understandable. But as you highlight, education has its problems as well. Maybe fix that and undocumented immigrants aren't so much of a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:52 pm 
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So somebody making $100K + a year deserves special privileges over a poor, destitute, non-citizen immigrant or asylum seeker.

That says it all. Talk about greedy and a false sense of martyrdom.


Has nothing to do with greed or martyrdom.

And where in any of my post did I say I want or deserve special privilege?

What I want is to pay a fair price for my kids college education. In case you haven’t noticed, college tuition prices have skyrocketed these past several years and continue higher and higher.

What I have to pay goes up each year as more people are granted such things as “fee waivers” due to their immigration status.

And by the way sparky, I ALREADY pay a shitload of money via my federal and state tax dollars that subsidizes these programs.

So already helping and doing my “fair share”. In a way, I get to pay twice. Once via my taxes that go to fund these tuition waivers and again by not only paying the tuition but that elevated tuition that one pays when their income moves them out of any college funding aid.

I have zero issue paying my way. My issue is a result of constantly forced to fund more and more for someone else.

At what point have I reached my “fair share” and can direct more of my earned income to my own family instead of someone else?

So easy for a socialist to spend someone else’s money.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:00 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
People get a bit touchy knowing it is going to cost them approx. $100k in some cases for 4 years of school.


It's so disgusting.

(1) Kill university sports. If students want to form clubs, fine.
(2) Kill a bunch of administrators. There are too many and many have fuck all to do with education.
(3) Kill the amenities. Again, BS facilities that have fuck all to do with education.
(4) Reform student aid. Make proportion of aid offered to attend a school proportional to its tuition. The lower the tuition, the more aid Fed backs, the more tuition, the less aid the govt backs for your school. Also, schools above a certain endowment line have to devote a certain percentage of the endowment ROI to giving scholarships and tuition remission in return for govt backed loans to go to your rich as fucj school. Harvard has like 52 billion dollars! Fuck you! Harvard! NO GOVT backed loans for your BS school!

Endeth rant.


So you are saying “lazy rivers” are not key to a students success... :D

Good points.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:04 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
So somebody making $100K + a year deserves special privileges over a poor, destitute, non-citizen immigrant or asylum seeker.

That says it all. Talk about greedy and a false sense of martyrdom.

Got it.

And as far as the others that don't make $100K a year? Their "entitlement" programs are being decimated and dissolved. So if you are struggling, and don't get the assistance, of course you're gonna look at an immigrant that gets free healthcare as an insult.

If you want to fix shit, change the designation of $17K a year/ individual as a benchmark for "poverty."


Non Citizen Immigrant or Illegal alien should have zero rights to my tax dollars..
This is the land of Opportunity.. Its not my fault that I make over 100k or less than that...I have the same opportunity as anyone else.. why should I be jealous of Bill Gates... He earned his.. let him spend his...
If you want to sit around and do the bare minimum to get by in life... so be it.. but don't come knocking on my wallet for help.. I came from nothing was promised nothing.. I worked my ass off for what I have.. Why should I give my shit up for some lazy fuck that wants to sit around and do nothing.. or jump a border and expect me to pay for his shit..
Now for the mentally or physically disabled.. No issues...lets give them a lifetime free ride.. Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.. that's all you get for free, the rest you have to work for...

Love ya Ten but no one is guaranteed anything..


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:29 pm 
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Tundralag wrote:
Non Citizen Immigrant or Illegal alien should have zero rights to my tax dollars..
Ok. I hear ya.

What if we don't call it "rights?"

What if we call it charity. A moral obligation. We have been gifted to be where we are as a nation, and have abused others to get here.

How about giving back?

As far as the rest of your post, we are in agreement without the assumptions that everybody that comes here is a lazy fuck looking for a handout. Work for your shit. Don't expect me to give you my shit because you're lazy. . . unless I'm drunk or stoned. But in a country that's this size, some concessions need to be made. Some are genuinely needy, and the few are gaming the system.

Does that work?

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:32 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Were these students born in the US, but live in Mexico? Because if that's so, they are American citizens who live in Mexico. They'd have to present a passport to get across the border.

Or are you saying that a bunch of illegals are rolling around TX in cars with Mexican plates dropping their illegal kids off at school?

No doubt undocumented kids are going to our schools. But when you point out that a bunch of people with Mexican plates are dropping off kids, aren't these kids likely US citizens because born here?

I'm a native Texan.


Sure, america has borders, but it’s economy has been built by cheap labor, illegal immigration, and by stealing resources in one way or another from almost every country in the world. It’s what super powers do. Especially ones that only have a 300 year history that is defined by immigration. Legal and not. Having “openish” borders has been the norm for a couple of centuries with no perceivable impact on it’s development (if anything, a positive addition), and suddenly now it’s a problem? That doesn’t mean I don't advocate border protection. I do.

And as I've insinuated earlier, the US has the responsibility of doing penance.

Allowing 12 million immigrants to suck the tete of the american economy means nothing in a nation with a GDP that dwarfs almost every other country in the world and has a population of 325 million. The US owes the rest of the world, and absorbing some free loaders pales in comparison to the other free loaders that are home grown. You want hard working american citizens to make more money? Stop giving it to rich people and corporations. Raise the minimum wage to something livable. The fact that legal and illegal immigrants are a burden on the american economy is stupid and baseless. I get people's frustration, but directing at the right areas seems more prudent. Otherwise, it just looks like (and in many cases is) racism.


Yes I agree that the US had a history of exploitation of cheap labor and some very nasty things in it's history. All developing nations do this: see China for a current example
Does not excuse the atrocities certainly, but this isn't necessarily a "US only" problem.

As to your supposition that the US has some sort of moral responsibility or reparations...wow, that is something straight out of a crazy playbook.

Didn't the Catholic church do this back in the day: You had to pay a penance for your sins to be absolved? Don't we all mock such an antiquated way of life- as in "WTF were they thinking?"

Why would you want to go back to that? And even if this WAS considered- what is the correct dollar amount for 'reparations'?
Similar to the living wage debate: if we are doing $15/hr, then why not just make it $50 for these people to live on?

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:53 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
I don’t agree with this logic. There are certain dangers that the government should be tasked with providing protection for the citizens. And there are certain dangers that should fall more to personal responsibility. I want the government to protect to me from the dangers I can’t possibly protect myself from. But dangers like driving, or not getting shot on the street.. while those are much more common occurrences they are also occurrences that should fall mostly to my personal responsibility to prevent. I can’t entirely remove those dangers from my life. But I can certainly do way more than the government can to mitigate those risks. I do however agree that the government needs to correctly prioritize safety issues. One example that comes to mind is not funding the coast guard during a government shutdown to obtain funds for border protection. That was asinine.


Be sure to phone your local council person and explain that you no longer require the police to patrol your street on the grounds that it is your personal responsibility not to get shot. Explain that you can do more than the police to mitigate such terrible events and that they no longer need to concern themselves about you.

How many lives have been saved by making wearing seat belts and using child car seats mandatory. I know this was a huge intrusion on our personal liberties, but maybe it was the right call.

I know these are extreme characterizations of your position. I don't think you embrace these positions.

I do not advocate for some nanny state that infantilizes its citizens. Neither do I want some libertarian dystopia where the government does nothing other than protect the borders and ensure business contracts. My guess is that we all want something in between. But this is also why the base in each party screws us by voting through nut jobs in primaries.

You can pass all the laws you want in the name of safety. It still comes down to personal responsibility as to whether the people will obey those laws. The cops aren’t patrolling up and down my street constantly because my community is made up of good neighbors that are responsible enough to not be violent to each other. Of course I believe police enforcement is necessary. And of course I believe safety laws are necessary. But that doesn’t change where the onus should lie in making our day to day lives safer.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:58 pm 
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Quote:
Otherwise, it just looks like (and in many cases is) racism.


Ah we couldn’t get through a thread without a liberal pulling out the tried & true race card. And by golly, there is so much racism in this country that even when it doesn’t occur people are feeling compelled to just flat out make it up. Those are always fun.

Anyways, what do you if the citizen is a Hispanic person but also doesn’t want to pay for those here illegally?

Are they racist?


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:26 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Tundralag wrote:
Non Citizen Immigrant or Illegal alien should have zero rights to my tax dollars..
Ok. I hear ya.

What if we don't call it "rights?"

What if we call it charity. A moral obligation. We have been gifted to be where we are as a nation, and have abused others to get here.

How about giving back?

As far as the rest of your post, we are in agreement without the assumptions that everybody that comes here is a lazy fuck looking for a handout. Work for your shit. Don't expect me to give you my shit because you're lazy. . . unless I'm drunk or stoned. But in a country that's this size, some concessions need to be made. Some are genuinely needy, and the few are gaming the system.

Does that work?


Charity is fine.. But when you make Charity Mandatory on my weekly paycheck its no longer charity.. I am not trying to be cold hearted here.. Trust me I give A LOT to the less fortunate.. but that is my CHOICE.. No one is making me do that.. God knows that I have been in dire straights a time or two growing up.. I was thankful that my FAMILY helped me. I have never been on unemployment or food stamps or whatever... I have paid my own way and lived within my budget.. I don't expect everyone to do that however.. My tax dollars should not be a paycheck for people not wanting to work or came here illegally... Let the citizens decide who and what they will give charity.. Let the churches and soup kitchens feed the less fortunate... No need to drive a Escalade with 28inch rims while shopping for lobster and steak on food stamps... the entire system is in dire need of an enema. Sorry to say some people just don't want to work for themselves they want me to pay for food shelter etc.. I say some people are meant to die off..
I know I am a cold hearted prick.. got it..


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