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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Makes sense. You deal with numbers so reading comprehension isn't in your wheel house. I'd suggest maybe taking some remedial reading comprehension courses.

@Donnie

Yeah. Things can be over engineered and done by committee. No doubt. Design and construction is a messy business. Especially with large scale projects worth millions if not billions of dollars.

But what you describe is mostly an engineering stereotype based on the problem solving process in 3 dimensions. It's the same as the expression "There's more than one way to skin a cat. " But they all basically perform the same function : skin a cat. Whether you have more or less blood, or how long it takes, do you want to eat it, or how you clean up afterwards and tan the skin. . .

And then there are agendas to deal with, as well as budget, schedule, and egos aside from any design parameters and requirements; maintenance issues, funding, staffing, etc. Like everything else. If there is a good team leader, it can create spectacular work, but you also need a smart, informed, level headed client. Shitty clients create shitty work. Conversely exceptional engineers will produce shitty work if you don't have a good leader or a smart, informed, level headed client. Same goes with almost every other industry, I would think.

Getting a consensus on what exactly is the "right/optimal" solution to this problem doesn't have anything to do with specifically design or engineering. But I think I get your point.

And I don't even want to address the idea that experts aren't experts and can fuck everything up/ They don't know any better than common folk. That's absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:23 pm 
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Still waiting on how tens of thousands of people marching on our border is a “manufactured” crisis.

It’s been happening and will continue.

We do spend billions on this annually.

Unless of course by “manufactured” you are referring to liberal billionaires funding & paying people to organize and march on our border.

Then we are in full agreement that some of this is in fact manufactured.

Any progress on the name calling reparations?

Come to a figure to compensate you for past name calling?


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:37 pm 
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You know the Steelers have suffered through a shitty season when this is what people are talking about here. I can't say I don't have an opinion on this matter, because I do - but sports fanaticism is largely an escape fantasy, and part of what is nice to escape from is this sort of debate. Let me know when one of you out there changes your mind on this subject, based upon what a Steeler Fury poster has had to say. Back to topic, I can tell you one thing I've changed my mind on over the past two seasons: Tomlin. He should have been let go. Enough already. The never-ending lines of B.S. Making the same mistakes over and over again, chiefly his mind-boggingly stupid (and seemingly obvious) efforts on keeping opponents in games when it's possible to crush them, or at least try to crush them. How has a team with this much talent over the past few seasons won so few games with ease or by blow-out?


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:56 pm 
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Quote:
I can tell you one thing I've changed my mind on over the past two seasons: Tomlin. He should have been let go. Enough already. The never-ending lines of B.S. Making the same mistakes over and over again, chiefly his mind-boggingly stupid (and seemingly obvious) efforts on keeping opponents in games when it's possible to crush them, or at least try to crush them. How has a team with this much talent over the past few seasons won so few games with ease or by blow-out?


No disagreement there at all.

Tomlin is a fraud.

I didn’t call a time out because I wanted to put “time pressure” on the Raiders.

Ummmm they had a time out too bozo and chose not to use it because ummm they were bleeding clock with the intent of NOT leaving you any time.

Obviously and duh.

A mistake is one thing but the mental blunders this man routinely finds himself in takes a special kind of numbskull.

And to your other point, it’s not like there is a anything to discuss with this team right now and it is in general forum.

Nobody jacking up a football thread with this...


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 pm 
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Will-the-Shake wrote:
You know the Steelers have suffered through a shitty season when this is what people are talking about here. I can't say I don't have an opinion on this matter, because I do - but sports fanaticism is largely an escape fantasy, and part of what is nice to escape from is this sort of debate. Let me know when one of you out there changes your mind on this subject, based upon what a Steeler Fury poster has had to say. Back to topic, I can tell you one thing I've changed my mind on over the past two seasons: Tomlin. He should have been let go. Enough already. The never-ending lines of B.S. Making the same mistakes over and over again, chiefly his mind-boggingly stupid (and seemingly obvious) efforts on keeping opponents in games when it's possible to crush them, or at least try to crush them. How has a team with this much talent over the past few seasons won so few games with ease or by blow-out?

They’ve failed to build a quality barrier around their leads. Security at the end zone border has been an issue. They have continued to allow too much foreign immigration into the end zone... though in this case it has been well documented.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:37 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Will-the-Shake wrote:
You know the Steelers have suffered through a shitty season when this is what people are talking about here. I can't say I don't have an opinion on this matter, because I do - but sports fanaticism is largely an escape fantasy, and part of what is nice to escape from is this sort of debate. Let me know when one of you out there changes your mind on this subject, based upon what a Steeler Fury poster has had to say. Back to topic, I can tell you one thing I've changed my mind on over the past two seasons: Tomlin. He should have been let go. Enough already. The never-ending lines of B.S. Making the same mistakes over and over again, chiefly his mind-boggingly stupid (and seemingly obvious) efforts on keeping opponents in games when it's possible to crush them, or at least try to crush them. How has a team with this much talent over the past few seasons won so few games with ease or by blow-out?

They’ve failed to build a quality barrier around their leads. Security at the end zone border has been an issue. They have continued to allow too much foreign immigration into the end zone... though in this case it has been well documented.


Nice. And well documented indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Ted Cruz talking about using El Chapo money - some 14 Billion to pay for wall. Sounds like a great place to start. If they don't use that money for a wall, where does/has it gone? Probably politicians pockets! Lots of people to pay off to let all of these drugs into the country.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ted-cruz-says-billions-assets-043249779.html

Oops, should have read the whole way to the bottom of the page. Mexico will most likely not want to part with seized assets.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:45 am 
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Image
Image

43% of all food stamps are given to illegals
95% of all murder warrants in L.A. are for illegals
Less than 2% illegals are harvesting crops while 41% receive welfare
66% of all births are illegals receiving medi-cal. (Paid for by the US Taxpayer)
60% of all H.U.D. property occupants are illegals

Whether it's a wall or some invisible force field :lol: It can't keep going on like it has. Its unsustainable for the US and her tax paying citizens.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:48 am 
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alancac98 wrote:
Ted Cruz talking about using El Chapo money - some 14 Billion to pay for wall. Sounds like a great place to start. If they don't use that money for a wall, where does/has it gone? Probably politicians pockets! Lots of people to pay off to let all of these drugs into the country.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ted-cruz-says-billions-assets-043249779.html

Oops, should have read the whole way to the bottom of the page. Mexico will most likely not want to part with seized assets.

What does the US government do with all the "illegal" drug money that's confiscated? Hmmm....


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:09 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Image
Image

43% of all food stamps are given to illegals
95% of all murder warrants in L.A. are for illegals
Less than 2% illegals are harvesting crops while 41% receive welfare
66% of all births are illegals receiving medi-cal. (Paid for by the US Taxpayer)
60% of all H.U.D. property occupants are illegals

Whether it's a wall or some invisible force field :lol: It can't keep going on like it has. Its unsustainable for the US and her tax paying citizens.


Just curious, but where did you get those statistics from? Is that for CA, nation, or what?

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:00 pm 
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/just- ... s-angeles/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... culating-/

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/just-one-state-cost-illegals-los-angeles/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... culating-/


I'm shocked, Donnie, shocked!

:lol:

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Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:05 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/just-one-state-cost-illegals-los-angeles/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... culating-/


I'm shocked, Donnie, shocked!

:lol:


If you dug deep down into those links it basically conceded "illegals and undocumented workers tend to stay away from official government tallies"

So there is certainly a challenge to quantifying the data and impact. And where you live certainly has an impact on illegal immigrants. I live near Ohio/Michigan and I'm confident in saying these individuals probably aren't a drain on our state resources. In fact I bet they are a net positive because those here illegally work in the fields or construction jobs that otherwise wouldn't get done.

But obviously CA/TX/AZ have different stories to tell. Unsure how you balance that.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/just-one-state-cost-illegals-los-angeles/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... culating-/


I'm shocked, Donnie, shocked!

:lol:


If you dug deep down into those links it basically conceded "illegals and undocumented workers tend to stay away from official government tallies"

So there is certainly a challenge to quantifying the data and impact. And where you live certainly has an impact on illegal immigrants. I live near Ohio/Michigan and I'm confident in saying these individuals probably aren't a drain on our state resources. In fact I bet they are a net positive because those here illegally work in the fields or construction jobs that otherwise wouldn't get done.

But obviously CA/TX/AZ have different stories to tell. Unsure how you balance that.


I'm sure this is the case.

I was more so being sarcastic about the original statistics posted. It was obvious from a glance that they were absurd.

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Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
But obviously CA/TX/AZ have different stories to tell. Unsure how you balance that.
That's part of the problem. And real data is scarce. But it has to be said that because one group is not receiving something, it doesn't mean someone else is talking it from them.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:41 pm 
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/43-pe ... s-illegal/

Steelafan, I ask you this sincerely: Do you knowingly post false information to further your beliefs, or have you been duped into believing that this nonsense is true? Donnie and I have unraveled your argument with a few google searches.

I am really grateful that my life isn't so horrible that I need to create boogeyman to blame for my problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:00 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Still waiting on how tens of thousands of people marching on our border is a “manufactured” crisis.

It’s been happening and will continue.


do the 10,000 people caravans cross illegally at ports-of-entry or just sneak across the unwalled border?

How many tunnels have been found under existing border walls?

Are the 10,000 people caravans looking to sneak across or ask for asylum?
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illeg ... tatistics/

how much could be solved by forcing employers to follow the e-verify system? Why has this not been done?

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration ... f-e-verify
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi ... 91734.html

Everyone is for border security. To build a wall just to support a campaign meme is wasteful. If they spend money make it at the ports-of-entry and the urban areas where most of the problem would be. The congress has already approved funding for a wall in the Rio Grande valley which is the place with the highest crossing rate that is not an urban area.

The real issue will be the National Emergency. If Congress lets it stand, in protection of current power, they basically have ceded their Article 1 power to the President. When the Climate National Emergency or the Gun National Emergency is declared, there should not be an issue. Right?

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Since this is the General Discussion, I'd like to share something I came across the other day.
"Heaven has a wall, a gate, and strict immigration policy. Hell has open borders, Let that sink in."


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:08 pm 
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fritzthecat wrote:
Since this is the General Discussion, I'd like to share something I came across the other day.
"Heaven has a wall, a gate, and strict immigration policy. Hell has open borders, Let that sink in."
That's nice. Too bad heaven and hell are fabricated fantasy lands. Otherwise, your quote might have some kind of meaning.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:06 pm 
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Well, Trump is going to build the wall despite the Dems. Only, he really doesn't have to use the State of Emergency order. Obama gave him a way if he chooses to invoke 10 US code 284. It could justify using money for a wall.

Here's a link from Cornell law

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/284?fbclid=IwAR2UyIjOdNuOJAqMSF8a4PN0A2S3luxZuiN6Q9ytz6kbNrearLgqkqXzFtw


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:09 pm 
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fritzthecat wrote:
Since this is the General Discussion, I'd like to share something I came across the other day.
"Heaven has a wall, a gate, and strict immigration policy. Hell has open borders, Let that sink in."


Is it accurate that hell has open borders?

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:17 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
fritzthecat wrote:
Since this is the General Discussion, I'd like to share something I came across the other day.
"Heaven has a wall, a gate, and strict immigration policy. Hell has open borders, Let that sink in."


Is it accurate that hell has open borders?
Actually it doesn't. The only way in without burning yourself is through the front door. Otherwise, you have to enter the walls of fire and brimstone. But then again, that's pretty much what hell is, right? Or is it experiencing something bad over and over again, in which case you don't need borders for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:22 pm 
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Quote:
Or is it experiencing something bad over and over again


If that’s the case, then we’ve all been in hell watching Tomlin try to lead this team.

Different year, same blunders.


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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:49 pm 
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Quote:
Everyone is for border security. To build a wall just to support a campaign meme is wasteful.


To the first part, ummm not really. Would be really hard to argue “everyone” is for border security. And I don’t know about you but policy such as “catch & release” doesn’t exactly illustrate any type of security nor enforcement to me.

To the second part, I think it is taking a rather nieve approach to associate border security and/or the wall with but a “campaign meme.

Not sure where you live but I live out here in CA and we see the impact of illegal immigration all the time. I also know several sheriff, PD, and CHP officers and each and every one of them will tell you the #1 contributor to violence & drugs are the Mexican drug cartels operating in our community. And I live nowhere near the border.

Tell the family of Kate Steinle that the wall and border security is but a “campaign meme” or a “manufactured crisis”. The man that killed her was deported what, 5 times prior? Multiple felon?

Yet he keeps getting back in. Over and over. Maybe if it was a bit tougher to get into the country Kate’s father would not have had to watch his daughter die in his arms all because they had the horrible misfortune of crossing paths with the illegal that decided he was going to squeeze off a round down by the warf.

Or the young wife and son that just lost their husband & father to the hands of multiple dui offender and illegal “immigrant” gang member. Corporal Singh immigrated here legally and started a family. Killed working Christmas night by someone here illegally. Think that widow will enjoy another Christmas?

Border security isn’t a meme. It impacts real lives.

I don’t know what the answer is. I do know that as a resident of one of the states that this impacts most what happens along our southern border is not a “meme” to me. I’ve walked that pier with my family where Kate Steinle lost her life. I don’t personally want felons that have been several times deported in my community. The community I pay lots of taxes to support. They don’t. They are unemployable. They survive here by crime.

Stronger security along our border can and would save lives.

How that is best accomplished I dunno.

I do however know that the people who have lost loved ones at the hands of someone that illegally entered the country don’t think it’s a “meme” either.


Last edited by 955876 on Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wall or No wall?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:55 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
Is it accurate that hell has open borders?

I'm not a bible scholar nor bible thumper, but I do know it is stated that after the Christ died, "He descended into hell" and on the third day....and so on.
So, I would say that, Yes, Hell has open borders and I'm sure Lucifer will allow anyone in.


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