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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:46 am 
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For me it boils down to, Simply Cooperate with the Authorities and Don't run or resist and you'll live to see another day.


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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:37 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
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In a major metro, there are so many cops on scene so quickly that I'd expect there's almost no chance that guy gets away.
Just goes to show how uninformed you are. Or you've never been to North Braddock. They have exactly eight police officers. Count 'em, 8. They don't even have a training or policy manual. Ask swiss about Braddock.

And I just found out the statement released by the police department that he had an empty 9mm clip in his pocket was false; as an excuse. Not true.


Since you mentioned me, Cor-Ten, I'll way in. Yeah, Braddock & North Braddock both have way diminished populations. Braddock lost its hospital, had no restaurants, had a dollar store, that was about it. Finally, a Swissvale guy opened up Peppers N'At in Braddock a couple years ago.

Anyway....one of the news headlines that I HATE is whenever someone is continually described as...."The Unarmed Black Man." In this case, the occupants of the car had executed a drive-by, kid was found with an empty clip in his pockets, and there were two guns in the car. Yeah, I guess the cop fucked up.....but that kid certainly wasn't doing what he should have been,


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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:21 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
For me it boils down to, Simply Cooperate with the Authorities and Don't run or resist and you'll live to see another day.


Yeah....go figure. To be fair, like 1 in 1M get shot dead for doing nothing wrong.

But it would be hard to argue the agenda in that. Which tells you everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:25 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
And here I thought this country was based on the presumption of innocence, not guilt.


Are you sure this isn't just an "incovenient truth" for you?

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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:46 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:

I hate to say it, but getting shot dead is one of the hazards of the job. If you don't want to take the risk, don't become a cop. You don't have more rights than the average citizen. Just a bit more authority, and many abuse that authority. Cops can't be the only ones determining when it's ok to use deadly force.

Civilians should be involved in determining where that thin blue line is drawn. It's not a black and white issue, although many cops boil it down to that in order to justify their actions. Actions have consequences, so if you don't want to go to jail for killing innocents, don't fire on a fleeing child.

.


So you want a citizens task force to develop guidelines for deadly force? This is the same group of people who more than 50% can't be bothered to get their asses out to vote. And this is the same group of people who according to some were "brainwashed" into electing our current POTUS.

I'd love to see the idyllic society that you must live in that this somehow seems feasible to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:12 pm 
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There are already guidelinesfor use of force. Anyone getting out of a car and fleeing should not be shot unless they were carrying a weapon. These officers must make decisions in a second. Sometimes it is the wrong decision. If they do it more than once then they need to be fired and never hired again as a law enforcement officer.

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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:34 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
There are already guidelinesfor use of force. Anyone getting out of a car and fleeing should not be shot unless they were carrying a weapon. r.


From your link:

There is no single, universally agreed-upon definition of use of force. The International Association of Chiefs of Police has described use of force as the "amount of effort required by police to compel compliance by an unwilling subject" [1].

Officers receive guidance from their individual agencies, but no universal set of rules governs when officers should use force and how much.

****************
So your post seems contradictory?


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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:08 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Quote:
In a major metro, there are so many cops on scene so quickly that I'd expect there's almost no chance that guy gets away.
Just goes to show how uninformed you are. Or you've never been to North Braddock. They have exactly eight police officers. Count 'em, 8. They don't even have a training or policy manual. Ask swiss about Braddock.

And I just found out the statement released by the police department that he had an empty 9mm clip in his pocket was false; as an excuse. Not true.


Since you mentioned me, Cor-Ten, I'll way in. Yeah, Braddock & North Braddock both have way diminished populations. Braddock lost its hospital, had no restaurants, had a dollar store, that was about it. Finally, a Swissvale guy opened up Peppers N'At in Braddock a couple years ago.

Anyway....one of the news headlines that I HATE is whenever someone is continually described as...."The Unarmed Black Man." In this case, the occupants of the car had executed a drive-by, kid was found with an empty clip in his pockets, and there were two guns in the car. Yeah, I guess the cop fucked up.....but that kid certainly wasn't doing what he should have been,


Don't forget the smiling photo of the kid probably from his middle school years is always used. It really seems like the fact that he was just involved in a drive by shooting is irrelevant to most media sources or protesters.

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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
jebrick wrote:
There are already guidelinesfor use of force. Anyone getting out of a car and fleeing should not be shot unless they were carrying a weapon. r.


From your link:

There is no single, universally agreed-upon definition of use of force. The International Association of Chiefs of Police has described use of force as the "amount of effort required by police to compel compliance by an unwilling subject" [1].

Officers receive guidance from their individual agencies, but no universal set of rules governs when officers should use force and how much.

****************
So your post seems contradictory?


In Tennessee vs. Garner in 1985, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that an officer cannot use deadly force against a fleeing suspect unless the suspect is a significant threat to the officer or to others.

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 Post subject: Re: Protests/Possible Riots
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:32 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
jebrick wrote:
There are already guidelinesfor use of force. Anyone getting out of a car and fleeing should not be shot unless they were carrying a weapon. r.


From your link:

There is no single, universally agreed-upon definition of use of force. The International Association of Chiefs of Police has described use of force as the "amount of effort required by police to compel compliance by an unwilling subject" [1].

Officers receive guidance from their individual agencies, but no universal set of rules governs when officers should use force and how much.

****************
So your post seems contradictory?


In Tennessee vs. Garner in 1985, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that an officer cannot use deadly force against a fleeing suspect unless the suspect is a significant threat to the officer or to others.


Isn't that a bit vague? If I'm an officer and a guy is running from me and I believe he has a weapon I can just say "well if I let him get away, he could have used that weapon (gun/knife/car) against unsuspecting civilians". It's an easy catch-all.

I'm not trying to be a dick or be argumentative, just to understand this better.

Again I believe that being a cop has to be one of the most harrowing jobs one could ever imagine.
Is the dude pulling out his wallet to willfully comply or is that a gun? You have to decide in less than 1 second.


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