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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:09 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Well, since Kodiak thinks that the options are either to sign up to Facebook and handover data or be a social misfit, I’d say the social engineering is working quite nicely for them in respect of at least some people.


I don't have a Facebook account, nor do I post on Twitter. However, I'm also not 15-20 years old. I think any college student rejecting social media would be basically a complete recluse. Nothing to do with social engineering or brainwashing - Facebook is the social hub for millenials and younger. I don't see how that's debatable.

Sure seems to be a fair number of school shootings driven by being bullied or excluded on social media.


Actually most of my students are into apps I’ve never heard of. Facebook is akin to MySpace for sone of my more recent students.

As far as Facebook being the primary social hub, honestly, i’m not sure that’s true any more. My students rely on a lot of apps I have never heard of. I think Facebook in college is for old high school chums. They use other apps for college social life. Brave new world!


This is true. My 14 and 11 yr old daughters think of Facebook as outdated and for their parents. The Myspace comparison is apt. They use Snapchat and Instagram- that's all their friends talk about anymore


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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Yeah, the idea that Facebook is the end all be all of social media is dubious. But as a third party authentication platform it has some significant reach. I know quite a few people that have Facebook accounts not for social networking but because it simplifies authentication with numerous services, apps, apis, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:19 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Yeah, the idea that Facebook is the end all be all of social media is dubious. But as a third party authentication platform it has some significant reach. I know quite a few people that have Facebook accounts not for social networking but because it simplifies authentication with numerous services, apps, apis, etc.


Never ever sign into a page with Facebook account. Those buttons give the website permissions to get your data. If they pay more they get more of your data. Just for logging into a page.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:46 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Yeah, the idea that Facebook is the end all be all of social media is dubious. But as a third party authentication platform it has some significant reach. I know quite a few people that have Facebook accounts not for social networking but because it simplifies authentication with numerous services, apps, apis, etc.


Never ever sign into a page with Facebook account. Those buttons give the website permissions to get your data. If they pay more they get more of your data. Just for logging into a page.


That might mean something to me if I gave a shit. Seriously, I expect anyone and everyone is selling my data. I’m not surprised by it nor overly bothered by it. Convenience always has a cost. Could be monetary, or in this case sacrificing some privacy. Honestly, I’m less concerned about data being sold as I am the government forcing businesses to hand data over to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:36 am 
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Thought this was interesting...

Quote:
Apple is going to war with Facebook's web trackers

Ever since Facebook’s (FB) massive Cambridge Analytica scandal broke, Apple (AAPL) CEO Tim Cook has made no bones about his distaste for the social media giant’s mishandling of its users’ data.

Now, Cook and company are taking their own steps to jam up social media sites’ web-tracking tools by blocking them in both the upcoming macOS Mojave and iOS 12 versions of Apple’s Safari browser. In other words, the war of words between Facebook and Apple seems to have just gone hot.


https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/appl ... 55408.html

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:14 pm 
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So a few weeks ago 60 Minutes had a piece on this very topic....there was a Republican congressman saying "Facebook and Google have 84% of internet ad revenue....and the sheer size of their data mining operations is effectively a barrier to entry - no startup can hope to compete with them".

And just last Sunday was they had an interesting piece on some whiz kid in Trump's campaign with how he micro-targeted potential voters on Facebook (very similar to what the Obama campaign did in 2012). Thankfully capitalism means they'll willingly take money from both parties, but what if they put politics first and decided to tip the scales in some manner?

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:44 am 
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/general-el ... 1529862757

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Speaking of which, there’s lots of chatter about breaking up the tech giants: Amazon needs to spin off its cloud business. Apple should split into a hardware and software company. Facebook has to jettison WhatsApp. And Google, well, it should voluntarily reduce its presence in advertising.

Like GE once did, Apple and Amazon each represent around 1% of the U.S. economy. But only Apple is in the Dow. It’s a pretty good bet that in 10 years, and certainly in 20, these companies won’t be the dominating players they are today. I can identify the seeds of destruction already planted at Apple, Amazon, Google and Facebook. No need to break them up; the market will take care of that for us. Just ask GE.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:54 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/general-electrics-long-unwinding-1529862757

Quote:
Speaking of which, there’s lots of chatter about breaking up the tech giants: Amazon needs to spin off its cloud business. Apple should split into a hardware and software company. Facebook has to jettison WhatsApp. And Google, well, it should voluntarily reduce its presence in advertising.

Like GE once did, Apple and Amazon each represent around 1% of the U.S. economy. But only Apple is in the Dow. It’s a pretty good bet that in 10 years, and certainly in 20, these companies won’t be the dominating players they are today. I can identify the seeds of destruction already planted at Apple, Amazon, Google and Facebook. No need to break them up; the market will take care of that for us. Just ask GE.


Latest "rumors" i've heard is Amazon considering buying UPS. Doubt it'll happen, but man what an interesting maneuver that would be.


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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Latest "rumors" i've heard is Amazon considering buying UPS. Doubt it'll happen, but man what an interesting maneuver that would be.


Doubly interesting when you consider the financial impact to the Gubmit....I imagine USPS takes a big hit if Amazon buys UPS and funnels more business thru it.

Amazon I don't really have much issue with. Sure, there's a lot of information in your purchases and the frequency of, but they don't have a 24/7 picture of you (and your friends) like Google and Facebook. Although I've never looked at the permissions for the Amazon app on my phone!

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Well, since Kodiak thinks that the options are either to sign up to Facebook and handover data or be a social misfit, I’d say the social engineering is working quite nicely for them in respect of at least some people.


I don't have a Facebook account, nor do I post on Twitter. However, I'm also not 15-20 years old. I think any college student rejecting social media would be basically a complete recluse. Nothing to do with social engineering or brainwashing - Facebook is the social hub for millenials and younger. I don't see how that's debatable.

Sure seems to be a fair number of school shootings driven by being bullied or excluded on social media.


Actually most of my students are into apps I’ve never heard of. Facebook is akin to MySpace for sone of my more recent students.

My point is not really diminished by your response. It is perhaps strengthened. The notion that you cannot live without social media apps without being an outcast simply means these companies have won a cultural purchase. You say that’s not engineering. Fine, but a rose by an alternate name will still smell as sweet.

As far as Facebook being the primary social hub, honestly, i’m not sure that’s true any more. My students rely on a lot of apps I have never heard of. I think Facebook in college is for old high school chums. They use other apps for college social life. Brave new world!


And this backs up your point that Facebook isn't so hip with the youngest generation and it may lose it's grip soon as the leading social media platform. Monopoly???? I think not.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/daily-digit- ... 32636.html

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:49 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
And this backs up your point that Facebook isn't so hip with the youngest generation and it may lose it's grip soon as the leading social media platform. Monopoly???? I think not.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/daily-digit- ... 32636.html


They have nearly 1/4 of the PLANET

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Last edited by Kodiak on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:08 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Well, since Kodiak thinks that the options are either to sign up to Facebook and handover data or be a social misfit, I’d say the social engineering is working quite nicely for them in respect of at least some people.


I don't have a Facebook account, nor do I post on Twitter. However, I'm also not 15-20 years old. I think any college student rejecting social media would be basically a complete recluse. Nothing to do with social engineering or brainwashing - Facebook is the social hub for millenials and younger. I don't see how that's debatable.


It is debatable, a debate you would lose to a lot of millenials.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... nage-users

"This year more than 3 million under-25s in the UK and US will either quit Facebook or stop using it regularly, and they are pretty vocal about why."

Georgia Davey, 21, predicts a bleak future for the increasingly uncool Facebook. “I don’t know if I should say this, but I think Facebook might shut down one day,” she says. “There will be a new thing soon and no one will be on it any more.”

“As soon as the parents got in, they killed it,” Jordan says. He no longer has the Facebook app. “I mainly pay attention to what my older sisters are doing or keeping track of things that are funny … I deleted my mum as a friend on Facebook because she was just jarring.”

“I don’t use Facebook any more because none of my friends use it, so there’s no point,” says Viktoria. Alina says she uses Snapchat rather than Facebook but doesn’t think Facebook is full of old people, just “more middle-aged people, like in their 30s and 40s”. The two girls mainly use Snapchat “for everything, messaging, pictures … and WhatsApp for groups from school, to talk about topics we did and projects”.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:18 am 
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Here is another one...

https://www.thestar.com/business/tech_n ... pchat.html

Three years ago, Facebook was the dominant social media site among U.S. teens, visited by 71 per cent of people in that magic, trendsetting demographic. Not anymore.

Now, only 51 per cent of kids between 13 and 17 use Facebook, according to Pew Research Center. The world’s largest social network has finally been eclipsed in popularity by YouTube, Snapchat and Facebook-owned Instagram.

The social media environment today revolves less around a single platform than it did three years ago,” the researchers wrote in a survey published Thursday. Alphabet Inc.’s YouTube is the most popular, used by 85 per cent of teens, according to Pew.

The U.S. is by far Facebook’s most lucrative advertising market, where it makes a staggering $23.59 (U.S.) in quarterly revenue per user. But that doesn’t mean growth can continue forever. The company said in its most recent earnings call that it’s effectively saturated the market in America and Canada, counting 185 million users in those two countries combined.

The new study demonstrates how difficult it may be to keep up that level of dominance, and how important the 2012 Instagram acquisition has been for Facebook’s future.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:56 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
It is debatable, a debate you would lose to a lot of millenials.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... nage-users

[i]"This year more than 3 million under-25s in the UK and US will either quit Facebook or stop using it regularly, and they are pretty vocal about why."


3 million?!?? I stand corrected. That's a HUGE number when you have 2.2 BILLION users worldwide.[sarcafont]. I don't know if that's even including Instagram (which, by the way, is what monopolies do - buy up the competition).

Facebook as a monopoly, as a social necessity, isn't about only the facebook website, but the entire platform and network of companies run by the Facebook corporation. You quote an article that talks about an "exodus" of users to another company....owned by Facebook. If there were an actual debate here, you'd be losing it. :lol:

Google and Facebook dominate social media. But that's not a monopoly! Misses the point

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
It is debatable, a debate you would lose to a lot of millenials.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... nage-users

[i]"This year more than 3 million under-25s in the UK and US will either quit Facebook or stop using it regularly, and they are pretty vocal about why."


3 million?!?? I stand corrected. That's a HUGE number when you have 2.2 BILLION users worldwide.[sarcafont]. I don't know if that's even including Instagram (which, by the way, is what monopolies do - buy up the competition).

Facebook as a monopoly, as a social necessity, isn't about only the facebook website, but the entire platform and network of companies run by the Facebook corporation. You quote an article that talks about an "exodus" of users to another company....owned by Facebook. If there were an actual debate here, you'd be losing it. :lol:

Google and Facebook dominate social media. But that's not a monopoly! Misses the point


3 million is pretty huge number when the loses are from a key demographic of 50 millions users (users under the age of 25 from U.S. and UK)

So yeah, a 6% decline in users from the up and coming generation is pretty significant. That is the same generation that you said "Facebook is the social hub for millenials and younger. I don't see how that's debatable" And no, they aren't all going to Instagram. Snapchat has more under age 25 users than Instagram. We can quibble over what constitutes a monopoly or not. I believe there are many options for a person that chooses to engage in social media. I understand your definition of a monopoly might not align with mine. That was not really my point. My point is that facebook is hardly a necessity and is bleeding users in the youngest demographics to cooler and hipper entrants. The choices aren't participate in facebook or be a recluse.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:16 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
And no, they aren't all going to Instagram..


But the article YOU posted said most are going to Instagram, which is owned by Facebook. Again, you don't seem to understand what a monopoly is or how it operates.

Keep harping on Facebook, the site, when I've said multiple times it's about Facebook THE CORPORATION. But, again, LOL about 3M users when Facebook has over 2 BILLION accounts.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
And no, they aren't all going to Instagram..


But the article YOU posted said most are going to Instagram, which is owned by Facebook. Again, you don't seem to understand what a monopoly is or how it operates.

Keep harping on Facebook, the site, when I've said multiple times it's about Facebook THE CORPORATION. But, again, LOL about 3M users when Facebook has over 2 BILLION accounts.


I think you are the one that doesn't understand what a monopoly is. 2 Billion accounts doesn't make Facebook anything other than a company with a lot of accounts. So long as those users have other choices they aren't a monopoly. And you are wrong.. the article I posted did not say MOST are going to Instagram. It said MANY are going to Instagram. Those two words make a big difference. The fact is more millenials are choosing Snapschat than Instagram.

Less than half of U.S. Internet users ages 12 to 17 will use Facebook this year for the first time, the research firm says.

And the giant social network can no longer count on Instagram to help retain that younger audience, according to eMarketer.

Facebook will lose 2 million users under 25 this year, eMarketer estimates. Not all of those users are migrating to Instagram, also owned by Facebook.

Instagram will add 1.6 million users in that age group while Snapchat will add 1.9 million users, according to eMarketer. The research firm, which bases its analysis on survey and traffic data from research firms and regulatory agencies, Facebook press releases, historical trends, Internet and mobile trends and other factors, says Snapchat will continue to have more users ages 12 to 24 than Instagram.

Facebook declined to comment.

This is just the latest in a growing body of research that suggests young people are logging in less frequently and spending less time on Facebook. What's more: There are now "Facebook nevers," children becoming tweens who are skipping Facebook altogether. Facebook requires members to be 13 to sign up, though many kids under that age access social media by having their parents start their account.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/201 ... 323765002/

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:50 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
I think you are the one that doesn't understand what a monopoly is.


Monopoly is a decision based on market share. 40% of the ENTIRE planet. End of discussion. This is laughable if you remember the Netscape days...

I have a masters in economics. You're welcome to show me your ignorance, if you wish to continue this bullshit.


Pro tip: In the future....don't write and post things that destroys the point you're pretending to make

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
I think you are the one that doesn't understand what a monopoly is.


Monopoly is a decision based on market share. 40% of the ENTIRE planet. End of discussion. This is laughable if you remember the Netscape days...

I have a masters in economics. You're welcome to show me your ignorance, if you wish to continue this bullshit.


Pro tip: In the future....don't write and post things that destroys the point you're pretending to make



If a Monopoly is determined by market share please tell me what the percentage of a market share is that determines a monopoly. You can't because you are wrong. This is pulled straight from the justice department website

Modern decisions consistently hold, however, that proof of monopoly power requires more than a dominant market share.

Not only can you not define a monopoly, but you are botching what actual market share is. You are confusing reach with market share. How many of those 2 billion monthly facebook users also use other social media platforms? I'd say most. In the U.S. the average social media user is active on close to 4 platforms. How many of those 2 billion users would even consider Facebook their primary social media app? There are a lot of "light" facebook users. Coca-cola sells 1.9 billion beverages per day. I'm sure they surpass 2 billion monthly individual drinkers of coke products. Is that what defines their market share (the answer is no). Are they a monopoly because half of the world has tried a coke?

Pro-tip: College degrees you get from a cracker-jack box aren't real.

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Last edited by SteelPro on Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
I have a masters in economics. You're welcome to show me your ignorance, if you wish to continue this bullshit.


I appeal to Thomas Aquinas who writes in the Sumna that, as Boethius says, proof from authority is the weakest form of proof. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
I have a masters in economics. You're welcome to show me your ignorance, if you wish to continue this bullshit.


I appeal to Thomas Aquinas who writes in the Sumna that, as Boethius says, proof from authority is the weakest form of proof. :D
thanks for posting that. It’s great entertainment to watch people Inflate themselves. The hubris and lack of humility is funny.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:14 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
I have a masters in economics. You're welcome to show me your ignorance, if you wish to continue this bullshit.


I appeal to Thomas Aquinas who writes in the Sumna that, as Boethius says, proof from authority is the weakest form of proof. :D


But...Isn't that proof from authority???


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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:56 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
I have a masters in economics. You're welcome to show me your ignorance, if you wish to continue this bullshit.


I appeal to Thomas Aquinas who writes in the Sumna that, as Boethius says, proof from authority is the weakest form of proof. :D


But...Isn't that proof from authority???


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:56 pm 
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An appeal to an authority based on an appeal to a authority. A fortiori. :mrgreen:

I simply must assume that our dear Zeke realizes the joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Break up the robber baron tech companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
An appeal to an authority based on an appeal to a authority. A fortiori. :mrgreen:

I simply must assume that our dear Zeke realizes the joke.
joke? I didn’t read it like that at all. But carry on with your apology tour.

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