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 Post subject: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:16 pm 
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As you requested, COR-TEN...

COR-TEN wrote:
Michael Jordan had a bunch of nobodies for team mates and the Bulls dominated. The only other player on that team worth anything was Scottie Pippin. Dennis Rodman worked the rebound thing, but mostly they had role players that did their job. And those players were average at best. They also had Phil Jackson as coach, and the triangle offense built to showcase Jordan and his abilities.

So the Pats have Brady and one other elite player in Gronkowski. They have a coach, as much as we despise him, that is in fact brain smart, and creates a simple game plans that uses the abilities of the role players to showcase the premier player, with basic game management/ philosophical principles at the forefront. Kinda like Jackson.

I think I threw up a bit in my mouth when typing this...


This is not a good talent assessment of Jordon's Bulls.

You win NBA championships with different kinds of parts that fit together in a way that works. If that is what you are trying to say, then I agree with that.

Phil Jackson never won a title when he didn't have the best collection of talent (or at least one of the best).

Jordon played with a HOFer in his prime during the first 3 titles.

Jordon played with 2 HOFer's during the second 3 titles with one of them in his prime and the other still playing at a high level.

Cartwright and Armstrong both made an all star team.

After winning the first 3 titles, the Bulls won 55 games the next season without Jordon.


Last edited by Havoc on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Well, yes. Different parts that fit together. Role players that know their role; carry out their assignments.

But a key component, which I was suggesting works with Marsha and Gronk, is an elite, once a generation player with another above average player surrounded by role players.

Which HoF players are you referring to?


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:50 pm 
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Pippen and Rodman.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:55 pm 
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Like I said, Pippen is equal to Gronk. What other players would have won titles with another team? Without Pippin and Jordon?

Is Rodman in the HoF? I don't discount his contributions, but any decent rebounder would have done the job. Or a decent center, of which the bulls had none. Just guys that did their job and run picks for Jordan or Pippin; clear space to generate a one on one with MJ.

Who's the 3 pointer guy? Steve Kerr?


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:35 pm 
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Yes, Rodman is in the HOF and not because he was "decent".

Some teams win titles with only 1 HOF player in his prime. Having 2 is pretty average for a championship team. The key being still in his prime or still playing at a high level. I can think of at least 1 team that won the title without any HOFers on the team.

You don't win 6 titles without a serious collection of talent.

When Dennis Rodman was on the floor, his team almost always had the best rebounder on the floor. 7x rebounding champion. This is an advantage. He was also a fierce defender. 2x nba defensive player of the year. The guy has a long list of accolades.

Jordon and Pippen together were a dominant force. Pippen was the perfect non center robin player to Jordon's batman.

The combo of Jordon, Pippen, and Rodman on the floor together was a dominant force. They fit together perfectly.


Last edited by Havoc on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Rodman was with the Bulls for three years. That's it. How many titles do the Bulls have? Six. Rodman was also pretty good for the pistons, so his HoF career isn't just the years he spent with the Bulls.

I'm not trying to downplay Rodman contributions. Like I said, I just think the 2 outstanding + average players (also coming off the bench) was the philosophy and structure that Jackson employed. Look at Miami with LeBron James and Dwyane Wade. LA with Kobe an Shaq. I don't consider Chris Bosh a HoF player.

Granted, I don't watch as much B-ball as I used to, but it's obvious the Bulls were able to win without Rodman.


Last edited by COR-TEN on Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:00 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Michael Jordan had a bunch of nobodies for team mates and the Bulls dominated. The only other player on that team worth anything was Scottie Pippin. Dennis Rodman worked the rebound thing, but mostly they had role players that did their job. And those players were average at best. They also had Phil Jackson as coach, and the triangle offense built to showcase Jordan and his abilities.


I wouldn't say nobodies. Bill Cartwright was a former 1st rd pick taken 3rd by the Knicks who avg 16 and 7 in his 8 years in NY prior to coming to Chicago. Horace Grant was a dependable PF who could hit that FT line extended jumper. Paxson and Hodges were snipers from 3. Hodges himself won the 3pt shootout 3 straight years. BJ Armstrong was another good three point shooter who made an all-star game in 94'. The second 3-peat featured future HOF Dennis Rodman who was picked up because Chicago had a huge hole at PF following Ho Grant's departure to Orlando. Also had the very versatile Toni Kukoc who was a Euro league Champion/Fiba World Championship MVP and won 6th man of year in 96' among other various accomplishments. Also had 3pt marksman Steve Kerr and big bodies in Luc Longley/Bill Wennighton. In 97' made a great pick up in obtaining the late Brian Williams(Bison Dele)to give them minutes off the bench. Almost forgot about Ron Harper who prior to coming to Chicago(even with that bad knee injury) was a 19/4/5 player for the Cavs/Clippers


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:45 pm 
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steelcity512 wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Michael Jordan had a bunch of nobodies for team mates and the Bulls dominated. The only other player on that team worth anything was Scottie Pippin. Dennis Rodman worked the rebound thing, but mostly they had role players that did their job. And those players were average at best. They also had Phil Jackson as coach, and the triangle offense built to showcase Jordan and his abilities.


I wouldn't say nobodies. Bill Cartwright was a former 1st rd pick taken 3rd by the Knicks who avg 16 and 7 in his 8 years in NY prior to coming to Chicago. Horace Grant was a dependable PF who could hit that FT line extended jumper. Paxson and Hodges were snipers from 3. Hodges himself won the 3pt shootout 3 straight years. BJ Armstrong was another good three point shooter who made an all-star game in 94'. The second 3-peat featured future HOF Dennis Rodman who was picked up because Chicago had a huge hole at PF following Ho Grant's departure to Orlando. Also had the very versatile Toni Kukoc who was a Euro league Champion/Fiba World Championship MVP and won 6th man of year in 96' among other various accomplishments. Also had 3pt marksman Steve Kerr and big bodies in Luc Longley/Bill Wennighton. In 97' made a great pick up in obtaining the late Brian Williams(Bison Dele)to give them minutes off the bench. Almost forgot about Ron Harper who prior to coming to Chicago(even with that bad knee injury) was a 19/4/5 player for the Cavs/Clippers


Ok. I exaggerate when I say nobodies. They played in the NBA, so that says a lot. Thanks for pointing that out. I remember those guys and they also came through in the clutch. But a lot of NBA players do. I'm not an NBA statistician, but I'm sure a lot of what those guys did was because they had those superstars as the engine that won all those titles.

I still stand behind the 2 superstars with role players wins championships.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:41 pm 
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The nba is littered with teams that had a 1 or 2 HOFers in their prime but did not win the title because the role players were not good enough.

Role players on nba championship teams aren't there to merely showcase the superstars. The role players contribute to winning while often doing things the superstar is not capable of doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:08 pm 
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Jackson is named HC of the Bulls. Jackson calls MJ into his office.

Jackson, "The problem with the team is that everything is centered around you".

MJ, "You aren't going to run an equal opportunity offense, are you"?

Jackson, "Yeah, I am"

NBA finals Bulls vs Lakers during a huddle...

Jackson, "Who's open"?

MJ, "Paxson's open".

Jackson, "I want Paxson to get the ball".

(I've seen this huddle in a documentary. It's very cool.) I tried unsuccessfully to find it.

I did find this though which includes both of the above...



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