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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Letang isn't all that anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:37 pm 
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A ton of chances and just can't punch it in.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
A ton of chances and just can't punch it in.
They blew off an entire third of the game. We'll see if in these next six minutes they can compensate.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Sully really needs to put a boot up these guys collective asses.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Just a shitty way to lose on a brain fart by the defensemen leading to a breakaway.

Sullivan the other day in his press conference before the Canucks game said they need to get back to being a tough team to play because even he sees they are far from that. We’ve got a lot of work to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Everyone had a hand in the loss.

I saw Letang be more physical than I can remember so far this season. Schultz needs to get his head out of his ass and get his shot working. Gets paid handsomely for that shot.

Murray would love to have that third goal back. Went through the 6 hole and he should have stopped it.

If this was a turning point then I can live with the loss. I liked the compete level the last 40 minutes.

Because they don't have an effective 3rd center at this time you can see what the absence Malkin means to this squad. I give Crosby credit because he saw more of Bergeron than normal today. Sid was better today.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:11 am 
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This team needs a better bottom six of young players eager to make a difference, not castoffs from other teams and underperforming vets. It's one of those situations where the structure is bad, so the top pillars are tumbling. There are a lot of factors at work here, most of which you all likely realize. For example:

1) Crazy back-to-back schedule. Easy to follow that the team gets blown up in Game 2 of these situations, especially playing late into the season the past two years.
2) Letang being a hesitant, defensive sieve on his comeback.
3) Crosby seems tired and unmotivated.
4) Backup goalie for the first few games with zero confidence behind a demotivated, soulless team.
5) No secondary scoring.
6) No push on even strength.

The roster composition and desire are the two biggest ones. Just as in 2015-16, a lot needs to change.

Going to drop these nuggets of knowledge from the Ryan Reaves Circle Jerk thread.

Quote:
4th line scoring isn't important? Oh, you mean it is for the Penguins? It's their identity? Tom Kuhnackl 7 points in 36 playoff games the last two years. Cullen 15 points in 49 playoff games the last two years. "Cullen took some penalty killing minutes and was able to go up and down the lineup! Unfair!" A diverse, versatile player as a 4th liner who isn't glued to 1 position?!?! Crazy, right?


Quote:
So, what can Reaves do well? He can play defense and suppress shots. He can cycle the puck a bit with the right players. He can skate. He can hit. So, if you love 8 minutes of that every night, while ignoring the fact that he's been a negative player his whole career despite that, good for you! If you love it at the price it came at, even better! I surely love the leeching of draft picks for no reason and the signing of veteran bottom 6 forwards that do nothing to help the team win. Cause that worked so well under Bylsma/Shero.


1 Goal 2 Assists in 23 games, -4, Poor Corsi/Fenwick player.

It's almost like I told you so.

For years, Shero would put in retreads, never-was players, usually on premium contracts into the bottom 6, thinking they'd make a difference. It wasn't until the youth movement in 15-16 that Pittsburgh finally realized it could win with rookie deal players who worked well together and were strong in 1-2 specific areas. Reaves was the start of a move back to Shero level of thinking. Sheahan was another addition to that. It's a vicious cycle. You need AHL guys who want to win to come up. You don't trust those AHL guys. Draft picks get traded for these crappy vets. They block the AHL guys and prevent more from being drafted. If disaster strikes, you have to lean on your late round/undrafted scrubs like Carter Rowney instead of hot prospect Y, who was the result of the high-round draft position you traded for a player like Ryan Reaves. Nothing good happens. The end.

I think it was Mr. Craig Adams himself, the innovator of worn-out welcomes and bottom six black holes, who said a bottom 6 should be rotated out every 2 years or so to keep it fresh. This past offseason was when guys like Carl Hagelin needed to be sent packing for picks or the help at center the team so desperately needed. Hagelin was a prime candidate for this as he provided not much to the cup run and was mostly injured, had an albatross of a contract for a cap team, and had a suitable stopgap who could produce similarly in Josh Archibald. Instead, the Penguins kept Hagelin, lost both of their bottom 6 centers, and he's contributed 1 even strength point and mostly has been the invisible man. He's starting more in the defensive zone and his possession numbers have dropped off because of it.

BUT 'MEMBER WHEN RYAN REAVES PUT THE STEELERS HELMET ON!?!?!?!? NEAT! Fleury's smile. Yinzers.

When you replace Cullen and Bonino with McKegg and Ryan fuckin Sheahan, life sucks. Sidney Crosby is burned out. The last thing he needs to do is take a defensive zone draw. So you want McKegg and Ryan fuckin Sheahan to take them instead of Nick Bonino and Matt Cullen. What matchups are teams playing against Pittsburgh? First and second line. The Penguins can't force matchup disadvantages with a 4th line that's combined to score less than Matt Cullen alone all of last season. You combine that with the defensive albatross of S-C-G, and you have games where you have 10 goals and 7 goals against. SCG wasn't even scoring at the pace they were before, which compounds the issues.

I can't help but wonder what money Reaves and Sheahan will be burning in the pockets of JR's future plans, especially when I HOPE he tries to fix this fucking mess at the trade deadline. Do ya'll have confidence in a bottom six that has combined for a total of 23 even strength points in 143 combined games? What are vanilla Riley Sheahan and shit brick Ryan Reaves contributing to this? Hagelin? Rowney? Kuhnackl?

This team is dead in the water because it just doesn't care. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's early. Letang is finding his legs. He sucks donkey dick right now. Maybe they're saving themselves for the playoffs? I've never seen a team just absolutely bleed goals like this one does. It's disgusting. The league is catching up to the Penguins with their young, speedy rookies. Boston's young guys were on display yesterday. Scoring is up in the league because of this, and I imagine the reduction in goalie pads has had a net positive. Pittsburgh's response was to get slower and have less talent in the bottom 6.

Klim Kostin, the winger selected by the Blues with the pick used for Ryan Reaves, has 9 points in 17 AHL games as an 18 year old.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:54 am 
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Thanks Hacksaw....discouraging, but makes sense, and likely true.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:12 am 
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Hack - what you say is true but what centers were available for trade? Gotta have a willing partner to do a deal. We could've offered Cullen a billion dollars to stay but his wife chose Minnesota over any type of offer from us. Paying bones $4m for that term didn't make any sense either

That goes for Hags too : what team wants to take on that salary for what little production he brings?

Centers are expensive to acquire and we had the luxury of going 4 deep. We lost half of the depth and it's probably not going to be rebuilt in less than 6 months. Maybe Sheahan becomes the 4th C and we acquire someone better and things get fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:15 am 
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And for what it's worth, I was ok with Reaves coming in and think he can be an effective player but he has to have the right line mates. He performed well in st Louis. Kuhn and Reaves HAVE to be split up.. Even if Cullen was centering them it wouldn't make a difference. Those 2 are way too slow for the game the pens want to play.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Hack - what you say is true but what centers were available for trade? Gotta have a willing partner to do a deal. We could've offered Cullen a billion dollars to stay but his wife chose Minnesota over any type of offer from us. Paying bones $4m for that term didn't make any sense either

That goes for Hags too : what team wants to take on that salary for what little production he brings?

Centers are expensive to acquire and we had the luxury of going 4 deep. We lost half of the depth and it's probably not going to be rebuilt in less than 6 months. Maybe Sheahan becomes the 4th C and we acquire someone better and things get fixed.


That's definitely a challenging question, but it's one I think that can be answered with "Rob Scuderi". Obviously Hagelin is a lot more of a player than Scuderi was at the time of the trade. A lot of it is knowing HOW the Penguins spent the money they did have. Sheahan and Reaves combine for about $3.125 in salary. I think Bonino signed for $4.1 million? Teams would want to take a 1-year flyer on Hagelin. I think Edmonton would be a great fit for Hagelin. He's got speed, which they don't really have outside of McDavid, and he does the little things that they were trying to get out of Jokinen and now Cammalieri. They definitely have the cap space for him. Toss the Penguins a pick or two, and it would have worked. All the sudden the team has $8 million in cap space. You can either re-sign Bonino with that and work with the $3 million or so you'd have left and would be willing to spend in cushion or go a different route. Hell, you can make the Riley Sheahan trade and still have about the same cap space leftover. Let's keep Scott Wilson in that deal and bump the 5th round pick the Penguins received back to a 6th rounder. I like Sheahan much more on the 4th line. So, the bottom 6 would look something like:

Archibald - Bonino - Hornqvist
S. Wilson - Sheahan - Kuhnackl

Obviously, I'd move around those pieces as needed, including bumping Sheary down to that 3rd line and maybe bumping Wilson up to L3. I'd want to get Archibald to RW as well. I think the master plan would be to get Sprong up here, so I could also see a situation where you DON'T get Sheahan, keep McKegg up here, and then make a deadline deal for a 2nd line LW. That bumps Rust down to L3 and Archibald out of the lineup. One of these bottom 6 guys can be traded to make room for Sprong, but the one I think would make the most sense is Conor Sheary. He's skilled but undersized, and it'd make a lot of sense to replace him internally with Sprong at RW3. I think Sheary would demand a fairly decent return, and the Penguins would clear about $3 million in cap from a guy that isn't a strong playoff performer, especially against bigger teams.

By my math, the Penguins would have about $6 million in cap space to get a prorated LW for the 2nd line in this scenario. Maybe the Penguins make a big move for Gabriel Landeskog. Maybe Sheary is involved in that trade? Who knows.

Replacing the speed guys for shit guys wasn't the answer.

Easier said than done, but the team could look something like:

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
XXX - Malkin - Kessel
Rust - Bonino - Sprong
Wilson - McKegg/Sheahan - Kuhnackl/Archibald

Oh, if I'm GM JR, I don't make the Hunwick deal either, which would save an additional 1.5 million or so. I would have put Pouliot as a bottom pairing guy to rotate in and out with Ruehwedel. That was another situation of not playing the young, talented player to bring in retread slop. The Penguins could have simply not traded for Reaves, Sheahan, and signed Hunwick and could have retained Bonino and used the internal options they had in place and been far better off.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Are we sure that Bonino wanted to stay here and be a third center? Even at 4 million a year?

If the Pens don't get better defensively and stop this slow start to each game the roster won't matter much.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Bruins 11-24-17
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:14 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Are we sure that Bonino wanted to stay here and be a third center? Even at 4 million a year?

If the Pens don't get better defensively and stop this slow start to each game the roster won't matter much.

Knowing he's playing 3C with Aberg and Jarnkrok on the team the Penguins beat in the finals last year, yes.


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