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 Post subject: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:28 pm 
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If I had to bet, I'd go with the Pens, who are built to possibly take one or two more in the next five or six years.

The Steelers' window will close in two or three when Ben retires or goes into decline.

In other words, I think the chances of Pens getting two is greater than Steelers getting one, especially with the Patriots intact. And especially with the Steelers being the Capitals vs. the Penguins when it comes the playoffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:43 pm 
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I'm inclined to agree with you - coaching is underestimated and the Pens have the right man for the job


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Although I think the coach has meaningful impact, I'd argue that the personality of the team and the unity of the team is the biggest factor in both teams' favor. Football is harder: 53 guys instead of 20. I know this: Deebo and Ben have every bit the leadership qualities and wowing their own teammates factor that Crosby and Malkin do... They need some help in ditching the guys who aren't the right role players or aren't the right leaders. If they can sort it out, I think the coaching gap will seem a lot less pronounced. (and I am one who thinks we have some real gaps in our offensive football plan)

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:15 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
I'm inclined to agree with you - coaching is underestimated and the Pens have the right man for the job


I have to upvote this message

Even I have to give major props to Sullivan

He def has my respect

He seems like a throwback to Fred Shero

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:03 pm 
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This is a fair question to ask, maybe one that should have been posted on the football end as well(get more opinions).

After the Pens blew another 3-1 series lead, this time to the Rangers back in 2014, I thought the Pens were dead in the water. Remember how they(Shero) gave new deals to older players like Dupuis, Kunitz and Scuderi, all four years after that debacle?
I really thought that the team was going in the wrong direction. The evidence suggested that Bylsma was regressing as a coach and Shero was too loyal to older players.
It looked like a bleak future for the Pens.
But they made changes both in the front office and the head coach.
There was another change in the head coaching position more than a year later after the disaster that Johnston was.
The Pens ownership realized that change was needed even if meant going through two head coaches in just over a year.

Look how it worked out.

I don't think the Steelers will ever operate like that-they don't think change is a good thing. Todd Haley is probably set in his position even though his work is underwhelming. Tomlin has tried to rebuild the defense since 2011 when he started the rebuild with Heyward. But that was 6 years ago.
In all that time the Steelers struggled to make the playoffs. And they can't beat New England, not right now.

I don't think the Steelers have the balls to make a move even though the results suggest such is needed.

The Pens window is shrinking. Malkin will be 31 and Crosby 30 this Summer. Murray is a nice block to build around for the next decade but Letang is 30 now and Kessel will be by the start of the season. IMO the window is 3-4 years tops.
Crosby has already said that the three peat is very important to him. Malkin talks about being the only Russian born player in NHL history to win 4 cups.
I think they have one more in them.
I also believe that the Pens will get that 6th cup before the Steelers win another Lombardi.

Which ever team reaches 7 first will be a time for celebration.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:26 pm 
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Location: Born and raised "Yinzer" living in OKC!
I have to admit, I'm pretty damn lucky as far as my lifetime of sports goes. 2 world Series wins, 5 Stanley Cups and 6 Super Bowls. I've seen the "Great One" in Forbes & 3 Rivers as well as"Pops, Maz, Sangy, Scoops & the Cobra and a shit ton of others, we are family. I've seen Lemieux, Crosby, Malkin, Jagr and a shit ton of others. I've seen the 70's Steelers, nuff said, too many to name. Hell,we won the World Series and Super Bowl the year I graduated high school. The city of Champions, how awesome is that.

I'll never see another World Series, I'm positive of that. This business first shit-bag owner will never give up his "money train". If we never win another game in any sport I'm good!!! I should be good, right?

But then, why I am I so greedy? Why do I want more? I tell everybody that will listen, I want to be the one and only fan, ever, to live through my team winning 10 Super Bowls. I think it can be done...........And I doubt I'm gonna live past the mid 80's. I got this!!!

Steelers, first to ten.......One for both thumbs, bitches!!! The way its look'in, I'll be able to fire up a big ole bowl of medical "bud" too, when it happens..................


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:08 am 
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If the mortgage depended on it, I would pick the Pens.

The Penguins will do what it takes to win.
The Steelers will only do it the Steelers way.
The Pirates will only do what's good for Nutting's wallet.

As for the coaching, Sully's coaching group is far more professional than Tomlin's.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:35 am 
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JackLambert58 wrote:
If the mortgage depended on it, I would pick the Pens.

The Penguins will do what it takes to win.
The Steelers will only do it the Steelers way.
The Pirates will only do what's good for Nutting's wallet.

As for the coaching, Sully's coaching group is far more professional than Tomlin's.


Drop the Mike....

JL58 just summed up the climate of Pittsburgh Pro Sports during my entire adult life.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:35 am 
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Agree on the management philosophy end, but it is REALLY HARD to win a Stanley Cup. There's a reason nobody had done it back to back in two decades. That said, until Brady and Bill are out of New England, the Steelers have a dragon to slay that doesn't really exist for the Penguins, unless you want to include the Washington Generals...er Crapitals.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Agree on the management philosophy end, but it is REALLY HARD to win a Stanley Cup. There's a reason nobody had done it back to back in two decades. That said, until Brady and Bill are out of New England, the Steelers have a dragon to slay that doesn't really exist for the Penguins, unless you want to include the Washington Generals...er Crapitals.


Because the Pens are the Patriots?

Tampa had the choke sunk in last year and the Pens wiggled out of it. Add in an improved Ottawa squad and a young up and coming Columbus squad. There isn't an equal to the Pens right now(maybe Chicago) but there are a lot of good teams in the East.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:53 pm 
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If the Jackets add one more dynamic player to go with Panarin, they could be a serious threat in the East. That's if the 2016-17 Jack Adams winner doesn't find a way to cock it all up, which he certainly might.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:09 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Ice wrote:
Agree on the management philosophy end, but it is REALLY HARD to win a Stanley Cup. There's a reason nobody had done it back to back in two decades. That said, until Brady and Bill are out of New England, the Steelers have a dragon to slay that doesn't really exist for the Penguins, unless you want to include the Washington Generals...er Crapitals.


Because the Pens are the Patriots?

Tampa had the choke sunk in last year and the Pens wiggled out of it. Add in an improved Ottawa squad and a young up and coming Columbus squad. There isn't an equal to the Pens right now(maybe Chicago) but there are a lot of good teams in the East.


Yes, and Crosby is Brady. We love him. Chicks love him. Everyone else hates him. And he's the best hockey player in the world right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Ha! That last one was gold.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Ha! That last one was gold.

Yep...and true

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:31 pm 
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no mention of bucs getting 7? :lol: they have 5 too.. :P

whats crazy the pirates were leading pens and steelers 4-0 in championships before steelers got 4 in 70s and bucs another in 79...dismal since.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Ice wrote:
If the Jackets add one more dynamic player to go with Panarin, they could be a serious threat in the East. That's if the 2016-17 Jack Adams winner doesn't find a way to cock it all up, which he certainly might.


But what kind of assets do they have to land someone dynamic? They traded for a #1 dman by giving up a #1 C and now need another #1C

Kinda ironic


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:58 pm 
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They're rumored to be contenders (along with GMJR and the Preds) for Duchene, for what it's worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:10 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
no mention of bucs getting 7? :lol: they have 5 too.. :P

whats crazy the pirates were leading pens and steelers 4-0 in championships before steelers got 4 in 70s and bucs another in 79...dismal since.

You can't compare MLB to NFL/NHL


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:06 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
bam morris wrote:
no mention of bucs getting 7? :lol: they have 5 too.. :P

whats crazy the pirates were leading pens and steelers 4-0 in championships before steelers got 4 in 70s and bucs another in 79...dismal since.

You can't compare MLB to NFL/NHL


baseball with the strongest labor union

no salary caps

hurts the small markets

here's the guy you can "thank" for that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Miller


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Lets say you could compare the NHL to MLB. What do you think the likelihood that Pirates ownership would spend to the ceiling of a salary cap? If Bob owned the Penguins the payroll would get a 30% haircut.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:05 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Lets say you could compare the NHL to MLB. What do you think the likelihood that Pirates ownership would spend to the ceiling of a salary cap? If Bob owned the Penguins the payroll would get a 30% haircut.

can u imagine if he owned pens and steelers too...pens been sold years ago..steelers would suck ass cheapo team too.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:42 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Lets say you could compare the NHL to MLB. What do you think the likelihood that Pirates ownership would spend to the ceiling of a salary cap? If Bob owned the Penguins the payroll would get a 30% haircut.

can u imagine if he owned pens and steelers too...pens been sold years ago..steelers would suck ass cheapo team too.

Yeah, but he'd be laughing to the bank thrice...cause all the saps would still be burning up those turnstiles.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:46 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Lets say you could compare the NHL to MLB. What do you think the likelihood that Pirates ownership would spend to the ceiling of a salary cap? If Bob owned the Penguins the payroll would get a 30% haircut.

can u imagine if he owned pens and steelers too...pens been sold years ago..steelers would suck ass cheapo team too.


It would most likely be Crosby(to fill seats) and a bunch of middling talent. No Malkin, no Letang, no Kessel. The cup cabinet would be sitting at two.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:55 pm 
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That's a sobering reminder as to why I'm not a hardcore Pirates baseball fan, Frac.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:52 pm 
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JackLambert58 wrote:
The Pirates will only do what's good for Nutting's wallet.



I loved Mark Madden's quote that ... "Pirates fans should stand outside PNC Bank and cheer 'Yay Nutting's wallet' !"


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:38 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
JackLambert58 wrote:
The Pirates will only do what's good for Nutting's wallet.



I loved Mark Madden's quote that ... "Pirates fans should stand outside PNC Bank and cheer 'Yay Nutting's wallet' !"


When I took over starting Pirate game threads from shamtown, I ended each opening post with the old chant "BEAT 'EM BUCS!" as I like much better than the current "LET'S GO BUCS!" which was ripped off from the Mets. This season, I have replaced "BEAT 'EM BUCS!" with the hashtag #GONUTTINGSWALLET for two reasons:

1. The current Bucs aren't worthy of the old "BEAT 'EM BUCS!" chant from the days of Clemente, Stargell, Parker, etc. Maybe only McCutchen.
2. The Pirates will only do what's good for Nutting's wallet.

To answer Ice, the Pirates were my first sports love, even before the Steelers. The Penguins weren't even on my radar in 1970. Actually hockey wasn't on my radar until I moved back to Rhode Island in 1972. So, while I am disgusted at the current Bucs and Nutting, I will always a Pirates fan and hope for the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
JackLambert58 wrote:
The Pirates will only do what's good for Nutting's wallet.



I loved Mark Madden's quote that ... "Pirates fans should stand outside PNC Bank and cheer 'Yay Nutting's wallet' !"

that be awesome..when next salary purge happens soon..cutch-cole whom ever..be great if fans showed up in force with we love nottings wallet! and $$$ signs! cheering wildly that bucs are number 1 in financial flexability!! :lol: would definitely be mlb net and espn worthy news!


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:57 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Lets say you could compare the NHL to MLB. What do you think the likelihood that Pirates ownership would spend to the ceiling of a salary cap? If Bob owned the Penguins the payroll would get a 30% haircut.

I wonder if Rooney or Lemieux owned the Pirates, would they spend like the Cubs? I am not sure they would. A cap/floor would eliminate the situation entirely. Until that happens I will never get into this team or MLB again because it's a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:54 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Lets say you could compare the NHL to MLB. What do you think the likelihood that Pirates ownership would spend to the ceiling of a salary cap? If Bob owned the Penguins the payroll would get a 30% haircut.

I wonder if Rooney or Lemieux owned the Pirates, would they spend like the Cubs? I am not sure they would. A cap/floor would eliminate the situation entirely. Until that happens I will never get into this team or MLB again because it's a joke.


They would spend better than Nutting because they are both interested in winning. I would imagine they'd both fire Neal Huntington for being timid and for his dismal drafts. Maybe either one would try to engineer a better TV deal that what's already in place. You've got a great sports town in Pittsburgh, and this is the best they could do?

http://www.sportsmedia101.com/pittsburg ... s-tv-deal/


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:38 am 
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JackLambert58 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Lets say you could compare the NHL to MLB. What do you think the likelihood that Pirates ownership would spend to the ceiling of a salary cap? If Bob owned the Penguins the payroll would get a 30% haircut.

I wonder if Rooney or Lemieux owned the Pirates, would they spend like the Cubs? I am not sure they would. A cap/floor would eliminate the situation entirely. Until that happens I will never get into this team or MLB again because it's a joke.


They would spend better than Nutting because they are both interested in winning. I would imagine they'd both fire Neal Huntington for being timid and for his dismal drafts. Maybe either one would try to engineer a better TV deal that what's already in place. You've got a great sports town in Pittsburgh, and this is the best they could do?

http://www.sportsmedia101.com/pittsburg ... s-tv-deal/


The question I posed was would they spend as much as the Cubs? How about the Yankees or the Redsox. I can agree they would spend more but would it be enough to even the playing field like the NFL/NHL is right now? it's all a guess. It's all a mystery just like the Pirates financials are a mystery,. Nobody on this site reads their statements. A cap/floor makes it a moot point.

The Pats own the Steelers, not because they have more financial resources and ability to sign better players (like the Cubs have clearly done with some massive free agent spends)it's because their Owner/Management is ten times better and smarter.

By the way, you can fire NH tomorrow and bring in Cashman and any other GM and you will still be behind the 8-ball. Until he has an owner who will deficit spend or their is a cap we will have the same issues and neither of these things will happen. Fucked up league.


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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
JackLambert58 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I wonder if Rooney or Lemieux owned the Pirates, would they spend like the Cubs? I am not sure they would. A cap/floor would eliminate the situation entirely. Until that happens I will never get into this team or MLB again because it's a joke.


They would spend better than Nutting because they are both interested in winning. I would imagine they'd both fire Neal Huntington for being timid and for his dismal drafts. Maybe either one would try to engineer a better TV deal that what's already in place. You've got a great sports town in Pittsburgh, and this is the best they could do?

http://www.sportsmedia101.com/pittsburg ... s-tv-deal/


The question I posed was would they spend as much as the Cubs? How about the Yankees or the Redsox. I can agree they would spend more but would it be enough to even the playing field like the NFL/NHL is right now? it's all a guess. It's all a mystery just like the Pirates financials are a mystery,. Nobody on this site reads their statements. A cap/floor makes it a moot point.

The Pats own the Steelers, not because they have more financial resources and ability to sign better players (like the Cubs have clearly done with some massive free agent spends)it's because their Owner/Management is ten times better and smarter.

By the way, you can fire NH tomorrow and bring in Cashman and any other GM and you will still be behind the 8-ball. Until he has an owner who will deficit spend or their is a cap we will have the same issues and neither of these things will happen. Fucked up league.


The Cardinals don't spend nearly as much as the Cubs and they've historically been a much more successful franchise. The Cubs have been massive spenders for years with little to show for it. They finally got over the hump when their management improved. It wasn't the spending that got them a title. Above a certain point most of the added payroll is just diminishing returns. Baseball economics are not as flawed as people like you make them out to be. The sports has many salary cost controls that are actually pretty good. A cap is not the only way to level the playing field and keep salaries manageable for the sport. Despite this I would still like to see a hard salary cap. Not because I feel it would actually benefit the Pirates much. I honestly don't think it would. But it would remove an excuse from the front office. And it would be eye opening to see them year after year staying at the floor.

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 Post subject: Re: Who gets SEVEN titles first...Steelers or Pens?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:17 pm 
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I agree that a cap would put the onus on management to win or lose - where it should be for every team sport. With the no cap, the players/agents have too much control and they will always follow the money which hurts many teams like the Pirates.

I totally disagree that it wouldn't help the Pirates or similar teams.


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