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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:44 am 
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Color me skeptical but putting Murray in the net won't really help much. Take away one goal because it was put in by a hapless pens defender and it's still 4-1. Assume Murray stops another and it's still 3-1.

Defense is dismal
There is no real offense. Anderson has an answer for everything so far.
2 goals in as many games for such a high scoring team?

I'm afraid they are getting capsitis. The puck just isn't going in the net.

On the bright side, if they get past the senators, Murray will have had some game time work at game speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:19 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Color me skeptical but putting Murray in the net won't really help much. Take away one goal because it was put in by a hapless pens defender and it's still 4-1. Assume Murray stops another and it's still 3-1.

Defense is dismal
There is no real offense. Anderson has an answer for everything so far.
2 goals in as many games for such a high scoring team?

I'm afraid they are getting capsitis. The puck just isn't going in the net.

On the bright side, if they get past the senators, Murray will have had some game time work at game speed.


This has been going around the net... Fleury was the one who kicked the puck in. Game is different if Murray is in net from the start.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:23 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Streit was really bad on the backdoor goal yesterday.


He's a bad player in his own end. Plus he hadn't played a game in what, 2 months?

This is the exact reason Sprong will not dress unless about 5 more forwards go down. Can't expect a guy who hasn't even played an NHL game this year nor played in a meaningful contest in 2 months to help you win games now.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Last year in the East finals Murray had a bad night in game #4 as I recall. MAF was brought in for the 3rd period. The Pens rally fell just short with MAF playing well to mop up that game. MAF was inserted for game #5 and the Pens lost going down 2-3 in the series. When the season was on the line Sully trusted Murray and the rest is history. I think Sully's guy is Murray. I think that's why they signed Murray longer term earlier this season.

The case for MAF
1. He's been highly effective except for brief instances (1 game vs. Columbus, 1 game vs. Washington, 1 game vs. Ottawa).
2. This team is golfing today if MAF doesn't stand on his head at other times in the playoffs.
3. If you sit MAF for game #4, absent another injury to Murray, MAF is as good as gonzo.
4. If Murray stinks in game #4, how does Sully sell going back to MAF for game #5 (when he didn't trust him in game #4) Murray could be inserted for game #5 as a desperation move to rally the troops who still could win three games consecutively (two of those on home ice)?

The case for Murray
1. If he's Sully's guy, and Sully's gut says Murray is the better choice now, Sully must trust his gut. Sully is 6-0 in playoff series to date.
2. Murray is fully rested and would present a different look to Ottawa.
3. Murray, if successful in leading the Pens to a series win, would finally claim the net as his own.
4. If you start MAF, and lose a close, low-scoring game, what justification do you have to start Murray in game #5?

I think Sully goes with Murray, hoping at most Murray only has one bad game the rest of the way.

BTW, FWIW, the Pens need to start crashing the net. They don't have enough traffic in front of Anderson to screen him or to knock in the rebounds. Where did they score in game #1 -- Geno in front of the net on a change of direction shot. Where did they score in game #3 -- Sid in front of the net on a 5-holer. The Pens must impose their will by going to the net -- the time is now!

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Sullivan: "Schultz did not skate today, but that was part of his plan. It was part of the process."


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Those two extra losses to the Craps. took a lot out of this team physically. An extra 3-4 days rest would have been highly beneficial.
Frankly, Geno/Phil/Sid need some scoring help from some others. That's what you need and get on the way to winning a Cup.
That's what the Pens have gotten every season they've won a Cup.

Meanwhile, how about throwing more rubber at Anderson while crashing the net?
How about running over "accidentally" Anderson like Murray was run last night?

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Bling Collector Ben wrote:
Last year in the East finals Murray had a bad night in game #4 as I recall. MAF was brought in for the 3rd period. The Pens rally fell just short with MAF playing well to mop up that game. MAF was inserted for game #5 and the Pens lost going down 2-3 in the series. When the season was on the line Sully trusted Murray and the rest is history. I think Sully's guy is Murray. I think that's why they signed Murray longer term earlier this season.

The case for MAF
1. He's been highly effective except for brief instances (1 game vs. Columbus, 1 game vs. Washington, 1 game vs. Ottawa).
2. This team is golfing today if MAF doesn't stand on his head at other times in the playoffs.
3. If you sit MAF for game #4, absent another injury to Murray, MAF is as good as gonzo.
4. If Murray stinks in game #4, how does Sully sell going back to MAF for game #5 (when he didn't trust him in game #4) Murray could be inserted for game #5 as a desperation move to rally the troops who still could win three games consecutively (two of those on home ice)?

The case for Murray
1. If he's Sully's guy, and Sully's gut says Murray is the better choice now, Sully must trust his gut. Sully is 6-0 in playoff series to date.
2. Murray is fully rested and would present a different look to Ottawa.
3. Murray, if successful in leading the Pens to a series win, would finally claim the net as his own.
4. If you start MAF, and lose a close, low-scoring game, what justification do you have to start Murray in game #5?

I think Sully goes with Murray, hoping at most Murray only has one bad game the rest of the way.

BTW, FWIW, the Pens need to start crashing the net. They don't have enough traffic in front of Anderson to screen him or to knock in the rebounds. Where did they score in game #1 -- Geno in front of the net on a change of direction shot. Where did they score in game #3 -- Sid in front of the net on a 5-holer. The Pens must impose their will by going to the net -- the time is now!


Isn't the case for Murray that (a) he was the starting goal tender for the Cup champions last year and (b) he was flat out better than Fleury the whole season? Fleury for large parts of the year had the second worst save percentage of qualified net minders. Without Murray this year, maybe the Pens start the playoffs on the road against CBJ. Maybe they start in the Atlantic against a team they match up poorly? Maybe we are already golfing without Murray this year. It works both ways is my point. You go with the guy that gives you the best shot, and I don't know how anyone can be convinced that it isn't Murray.

Also, I think Fleury had two bad games in CBJ; arguably two bad games against the Capitals. He has had some great moments during the playoffs, but also some really lousy games.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Murray's ability to control the puck and set the breakout up with crisp passes could be very beneficial for a defense suddenly lacking both Schultz AND Letang's puck-moving abilities. That's why I would make the switch.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Quote:
Isn't the case for Murray that (a) he was the starting goal tender for the Cup champions last year and (b) he was flat out better than Fleury the whole season? Fleury for large parts of the year had the second worst save percentage of qualified net minders. Without Murray this year, maybe the Pens start the playoffs on the road against CBJ. Maybe they start in the Atlantic against a team they match up poorly? Maybe we are already golfing without Murray this year. It works both ways is my point. You go with the guy that gives you the best shot, and I don't know how anyone can be convinced that it isn't Murray.

Also, I think Fleury had two bad games in CBJ; arguably two bad games against the Capitals. He has had some great moments during the playoffs, but also some really lousy games.


Zeke, you make good points. I'm a Murray guy myself. However, using your good points, why was MAF in the cage to start game #3 last night? Murray was obviously healthy enough to resume his duties entering game #3.

Sully was playing "the hot hand". In fact, Murray had stated earlier that MAF supported Murray last year and so as long as the team was winning this year (with MAF) Murray felt he needed to support MAF in a similar fashion this season. What was best for the team....

There are some who would still like to keep both net minders for next season (insurance). Once MAF gets yanked he's gone, IMHO, because if the Pens lose its easy to cut ties. If the Pens win the Cup (with Murray in the cage at the end) its easy to cut ties with MAF.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Sens ECF Game 3
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Bling Collector Ben wrote:
Quote:
Isn't the case for Murray that (a) he was the starting goal tender for the Cup champions last year and (b) he was flat out better than Fleury the whole season? Fleury for large parts of the year had the second worst save percentage of qualified net minders. Without Murray this year, maybe the Pens start the playoffs on the road against CBJ. Maybe they start in the Atlantic against a team they match up poorly? Maybe we are already golfing without Murray this year. It works both ways is my point. You go with the guy that gives you the best shot, and I don't know how anyone can be convinced that it isn't Murray.

Also, I think Fleury had two bad games in CBJ; arguably two bad games against the Capitals. He has had some great moments during the playoffs, but also some really lousy games.


Zeke, you make good points. I'm a Murray guy myself. However, using your good points, why was MAF in the cage to start game #3 last night? Murray was obviously healthy enough to resume his duties entering game #3.

Sully was playing "the hot hand". In fact, Murray had stated earlier that MAF supported Murray last year and so as long as the team was winning this year (with MAF) Murray felt he needed to support MAF in a similar fashion this season. What was best for the team....

There are some who would still like to keep both net minders for next season (insurance). Once MAF gets yanked he's gone, IMHO, because if the Pens lose its easy to cut ties. If the Pens win the Cup (with Murray in the cage at the end) its easy to cut ties with MAF.


Probably the hardest decision Sullivan has had to make since taking over last year. There are good points for starting one or the other.
I think the team plays better behind Murray and I would go that way tomorrow night.

About keeping them both, I don't see how you can pay 2 tenders nearly 9.5 million combined next year when the defense needs to be retooled. The existing cap space next season means that the Pens might have to pursue a third line center and a couple of defensemen-of which one has to be a top 4 pairing.

IMO, this playoff run by Fleury probably opened some eyes in the league and there might a willing trade partner if Fleury waives his movement clause.

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