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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Well said Lipps.

And Donnie, I agree a flag is tricky but my OPINION is at that brief moment when the puck was being dropped there is enough perception about that particular flag that that detracted from what that moment should stand for. Is it as divisive as a nazi flag? I’d say no. Is it as neutral as an American flag or the flag of Pittsburgh? I’d say no.

I have nothing against flags or what people want to believe they stand for. But looking at it solely from a Penguins PR standpoint, not sure that should have been allowed. As Lipps said, if you support it then you are inherently against those that denounce it, and vice versa.

Want to know how I think it really played out? I think the officer just brought the flag with him and nobody either questioned it or thought to prevent him from displaying it. I think a lot of people don’t even know what it is. I’m not going to knock on Lauren Theissen for her article though; considering what is defined as “media” these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:34 pm 
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To me, Jack Johnson is associated with distrust.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Ice wrote:
To me, Jack Johnson is associated with distrust.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Ice wrote:
To me, Jack Johnson is associated with distrust.



Lol.

Jack Johnson is what everyone should REALLY be offended by.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Ice wrote:
To me, Jack Johnson is associated with distrust.


I think that's something we can all stand united for


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Well said Lipps.

And Donnie, I agree a flag is tricky but my OPINION is at that brief moment when the puck was being dropped there is enough perception about that particular flag that that detracted from what that moment should stand for. Is it as divisive as a nazi flag? I’d say no. Is it as neutral as an American flag or the flag of Pittsburgh? I’d say no.

I have nothing against flags or what people want to believe they stand for. But looking at it solely from a Penguins PR standpoint, not sure that should have been allowed. As Lipps said, if you support it then you are inherently against those that denounce it, and vice versa.

Want to know how I think it really played out? I think the officer just brought the flag with him and nobody either questioned it or thought to prevent him from displaying it. I think a lot of people don’t even know what it is. I’m not going to knock on Lauren Theissen for her article though; considering what is defined as “media” these days.



I agree with your last paragraph, no one probably questioned it at all. And also agreed w/ LLS that promoting X nowadays, people automatically assume you are demoting Y. It's an awful time with social media and viral half truths circulating


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:54 pm 
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I think what's important is to understand this within the context of time.

The blue lives matter "flag" was in direct opposition to #blacklivesmatter. It was intended to counter the movement decrying the killing of innocent black people. A political counter weight to a political movement. It's not just a symbol that can be interpreted. It's meaning was made clear from the start.

Then cons got triggered when kaepernick knelt during the anthem and "flag," accusing him of politicizing a perfectly apolitical football game - never mind the contract with the military and the air force fly by's. Free speech notwithstanding.

Showing the blue lives matter "flag" at center ice, with all eyes focused on that single event, was a politicization of an event that didn't need it. It seemed innocent enough, but it was insensitive and inflammatory considering what the public discourse is like.

As one poster on deadspin said, the american flag is what represents law enforcement killed or wounded in the line of duty. Police uniforms used to have the american flag on it representing all of america, not just cops, since that is who they have the duty to serve and protect. An american flag would have promoted unity in a time of discord and divisiveness. It encompasses all of us, not just jews, whites, blacks, politicians, or police officers. The idea was to memorialize all victims of hate, instead of having to appease and placate separate groups for political effect. I even think the star of david on the uniforms was over the top. What patch would have been appropriate after the massacre at the black church? What about those killed in Vegas? Or Florida? Singling out a distinct group or groups of citizens just adds fuel to the tribalism that has been artificially induced in our society.

Finally, I don't think the idea of being unbiased - that both sides are to blame/ are just as guilty - as a matter of course is justified. It's a false equivalency, imo. I've been around long enough to understand the differences on both sides of the political spectrum. Sometimes they are the same, and sometimes they are not. Period.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:12 pm 
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It's funny, you get through a whole post, find it reasonable and well-thought out, then you get to the sig and the whole thing just falls apart.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Ice wrote:
It's funny, you get through a whole post, find it reasonable and well-thought out, then you get to the sig and the whole thing just falls apart.
Which post are you referring to?

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:44 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Ice wrote:
It's funny, you get through a whole post, find it reasonable and well-thought out, then you get to the sig and the whole thing just falls apart.
Which post are you referring to?


When you find yourself hoping Cor's post was sarcafont...


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Ice wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Ice wrote:
It's funny, you get through a whole post, find it reasonable and well-thought out, then you get to the sig and the whole thing just falls apart.
Which post are you referring to?


When you find yourself hoping Cor's post was sarcafont...
Not sure I understand, but that's ok. I think you misunderstand my sig, btw.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:49 pm 
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I was the one that suggested the edit.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Not to make this personal, but Jack Johnson has an annoying face. His body language rubs me the wrong way, and he plays like utter dogshit about 80% of the time on the ice. He sticks out like a sore thumb on this team, because just about every other guy on the ice plays smart hockey and plays like it's life or death on every shift. Even the players with limitations at least have some upside and try like hell to make good plays-- maybe they go through slumps or have a bad night or a bad shift... but you can see, at times, why they get PT.

Johnson is different. I want to like him because Sid likes him, but damn if he doesn't look like a worse and more fish-out-of-water acquisition than Reaves did last year. Hell, I would trade Johnson straight up for Reaves, and Reaves has like two redeeming qualities.

Am I wrong to hate this much, this soon?

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Not to make this personal, but Jack Johnson has an annoying face. His body language rubs me the wrong way, and he plays like utter dogshit about 80% of the time on the ice. He sticks out like a sore thumb on this team, because just about every other guy on the ice plays smart hockey and plays like it's life or death on every shift. Even the players with limitations at least have some upside and try like hell to make good plays-- maybe they go through slumps or have a bad night or a bad shift... but you can see, at times, why they get PT.

Johnson is different. I want to like him because Sid likes him, but damn if he doesn't look like a worse and more fish-out-of-water acquisition than Reaves did last year. Hell, I would trade Johnson straight up for Reaves, and Reaves has like two redeeming qualities.

Am I wrong to hate this much, this soon?


Naw, I’m 100% with you in every respect on that post. They showed a shot of him sitting on the bench trying to high five the officers as they walked off the ice, and I just hated him for it. Can’t explain it. He did nothing wrong. But at the same time, nothing looked right about it. And that’s how he is with everything he does.

It’s like he’s been frozen for 3000 years and reintroduced into society for the first time and has no idea how to react to any situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:45 pm 
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Every time the man is on the ice, I expect a goal against. I was actually kind of surprised he was only a -5, even on a team that scores as much as we do, I would have thought it would be worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Islanders 10-30-18
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Every time the man is on the ice, I expect a goal against. I was actually kind of surprised he was only a -5, even on a team that scores as much as we do, I would have thought it would be worse.



I know. I looked up his stats during the last game and he was only a -3. I've seen single games where he was a -3. He must be the luckiest son of bitch on the planet for being on the ice when goals are scored, and certainly the poster boy for why +/- is a flawed stats (although, then again, if you look at his career +/- .....maybe not.)


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