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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Y-Town Steel wrote:
Hacksaw how would you rank this Pens offseason so far? Best ever??


I think SUPER BEST EVER is probably more fitting. That trade the Penguins made for Oleksiak last year is still so fresh in my mind. I think it's a heavy contender for BEST NHL TRADE OF ALL TIME. I can't wait until Oleksiak justifies this trade somehow by scoring a big goal seven years from now while playing for some other team.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Heard Madden mention today that he’s hearing rumors of the Pens inquiring about Max Pacioretty. I’m not sure how the numbers work with that one, but GMJR has done more with less.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Heard Madden mention today that he’s hearing rumors of the Pens inquiring about Max Pacioretty. I’m not sure how the numbers work with that one, but GMJR has done more with less.



The oft-cited rumor is Pacioretty for Brassard. It's really a match made in heaven in a vacuum. Both players are on expiring contracts. If I had to guess, both players have about the same shot to re-sign with their current teams. Also, they're both about the same age and fill the need of the team interested in acquiring them. They also more or less make the same cap hit.

I spent about 30 minutes thinking about this trade. I just don't see the value in it for both teams.

For Montreal, it's definitely a situation where they're creating one hole to fill another. If you insert Brassard into that roster, he immediately becomes the 1C for the team. The logical next step would be to move Drouin back to LW to cover for the loss of Pacioretty. In my opinion, Pacioretty > Drouin by quite a bit, so any sort of upgrade would be neutral. Speaking of Montreal, what are they doing? They have playoff talent in the majority of their positions, but they're doing what they can to just shit it all away. Bergevin sucks.

For the Penguins, it makes a bit more sense. Despite Brassard likely holding more value because he's a center, Pacioretty is definitely the better player. I even think he'd work well on a line with Geno and Kessel. But here's the thing. Hagelin/Malkin work too well. I don't think the team is going to breakup Sid and Guentzel either, so Pacioretty is going to be the 3LW with Rust and Sheahan. Cullen works the 4th line with ZAR and Sprong most likely. So, what do you think sounds better here? Derrick Brassard (2C at best) or Pacioretty (1LW at best) playing third line minutes?

I'd rather keep the +++ center depth and see what they have at 3LW between Sprong/Rust/ZAR/Cullen/etc. before I start moving deck chairs around


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:12 am 
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If Crosby or Malkin go down for a stretch, Brassard could be a key cog. Nobody else on the roster that I'd be confident about for extended time on the 1st or 2nd line. That alone makes a trade a no no.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:31 am 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Heard Madden mention today that he’s hearing rumors of the Pens inquiring about Max Pacioretty. I’m not sure how the numbers work with that one, but GMJR has done more with less.



The oft-cited rumor is Pacioretty for Brassard. It's really a match made in heaven in a vacuum. Both players are on expiring contracts. If I had to guess, both players have about the same shot to re-sign with their current teams. Also, they're both about the same age and fill the need of the team interested in acquiring them. They also more or less make the same cap hit.

I spent about 30 minutes thinking about this trade. I just don't see the value in it for both teams.

For Montreal, it's definitely a situation where they're creating one hole to fill another. If you insert Brassard into that roster, he immediately becomes the 1C for the team. The logical next step would be to move Drouin back to LW to cover for the loss of Pacioretty. In my opinion, Pacioretty > Drouin by quite a bit, so any sort of upgrade would be neutral. Speaking of Montreal, what are they doing? They have playoff talent in the majority of their positions, but they're doing what they can to just shit it all away. Bergevin sucks.

For the Penguins, it makes a bit more sense. Despite Brassard likely holding more value because he's a center, Pacioretty is definitely the better player. I even think he'd work well on a line with Geno and Kessel. But here's the thing. Hagelin/Malkin work too well. I don't think the team is going to breakup Sid and Guentzel either, so Pacioretty is going to be the 3LW with Rust and Sheahan. Cullen works the 4th line with ZAR and Sprong most likely. So, what do you think sounds better here? Derrick Brassard (2C at best) or Pacioretty (1LW at best) playing third line minutes?

I'd rather keep the +++ center depth and see what they have at 3LW between Sprong/Rust/ZAR/Cullen/etc. before I start moving deck chairs around


I realize the sunk cost fallacy, but if we turn around and trade Brass after all we gave up for him I'm going to be fucking livid. I meant he dude has played like 30 games of the Pens? At least 1/4 of those games he was injured.

With consistent linemates and actually getting acclimated to his new team I feel like Brass hasn't reached his potential here yet. If he's struggling in Jan, then yeah fine think about moving him

The following season is going to be a mess with the 3C and 4C AGAIN. Brass and Sheahan are both FA's. If we trade Brass it should be for another C with term


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:58 pm 
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They'll likely sign Sheahan if he performs well long term. I dont think JR considers him a third center. So yeah, it's going to likely come from a FA signing or trade. Next years team is going to have to make more moves to get under the cap.

I think any salary should come from the D. Schultz makes 5+ million. Letang 7+. Johnson 3+. Olli 4+. Dumo 4+. That's a lot of investment in a position that could likely be replaced in areas. One has to go next season. I pointed to Schultz. Age, tradeability, and contract make him a solid target. I think the Penguins plan has been hoping that Johnson becomes a replacement in the top 4.

Schultz being replaced likely pays for Guentzel's extension. I know Rust is a valuable player, but with that salary for a bottom 6 guy with how this team is structured, I just don't see him sticking around for long after next season. The good thing is that a lot of questiones will be answered simply based on how certain players perform this season. I think there's a bit of excitement that comes with that because it will enhance the regular season experience for a team that is an automatic for the playoffs.

Hope some prospects develop and hope some guys take discounts.

As I said before, this season may be the team's last best chance to win it all for awhile. At this point, I'm expecting a Brassard type of TDL deal for Skinner or Pacioretty. So, probably just a 1st rounder, a prospect like Jarry, and something else.


*Edit* Sid offered to workout with Simon during the summer. I wonder if the front office did this out of extreme necessity, as they probably know how important he becomes with ZAR to keeping the train going.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
They'll likely sign Sheahan if he performs well long term. I dont think JR considers him a third center. So yeah, it's going to likely come from a FA signing or trade. Next years team is going to have to make more moves to get under the cap.



Theres the rub: it takes BOTH parties to want to get a deal done as an UFA.

I think Sheahan likes it here, but if he's gonna get the hard defensive zone faceoffs and is expected to toil on the 4th line I'm thinking he goes elsewhere where he'll: 1) get more TOI and 2) bet paid more than a 4C


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 am 
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Oleksiak extended 3 years at around $2.1M/per.


Rutherford also talking about the center position in a press conferences and said the current plan was to try Brassard at wing, with the caveat of "Just because we try it, doesn't mean we have to stick to it".


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:47 am 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Oleksiak extended 3 years at around $2.1M/per.


Rutherford also talking about the center position in a press conferences and said the current plan was to try Brassard at wing, with the caveat of "Just because we try it, doesn't mean we have to stick to it".


And Our defense continues to get more expensive. But that's what happens when you don't have any youngsters coming up who are cheap on the blueline.
Could you imagine if Geno/Sid took contracts that were market value? We'd barely have a team


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Oleksiak extended 3 years at around $2.1M/per.


Rutherford also talking about the center position in a press conferences and said the current plan was to try Brassard at wing, with the caveat of "Just because we try it, doesn't mean we have to stick to it".


And Our defense continues to get more expensive. But that's what happens when you don't have any youngsters coming up who are cheap on the blueline.
Could you imagine if Geno/Sid took contracts that were market value? We'd barely have a team



For sure. In a vacuum, I don't think it's a bad contract for Oleksiak. There's been worse defensemen who got paid a lot more this offseason (one of them may even be on our team, depending on who you ask).

But yeah, added all together, that's a ton of money for a defensive core that, to put it lightly, wasn't very good last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Oleksiak extended 3 years at around $2.1M/per.


Rutherford also talking about the center position in a press conferences and said the current plan was to try Brassard at wing, with the caveat of "Just because we try it, doesn't mean we have to stick to it".


And Our defense continues to get more expensive. But that's what happens when you don't have any youngsters coming up who are cheap on the blueline.
Could you imagine if Geno/Sid took contracts that were market value? We'd barely have a team


Looking back over the past decade the only player the Pens have organically developed on the blue line is Maata. Others just didn't work out here(Goligoski, Despres,Pouliot). Add Harrington to that list as well.

I saw that Fluery got 3 years- 7 million a year so good for him though I think it is too much.

And I'm still trying to make heads/tails of the Arizona/Chicago trade.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:33 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Oleksiak extended 3 years at around $2.1M/per.


Rutherford also talking about the center position in a press conferences and said the current plan was to try Brassard at wing, with the caveat of "Just because we try it, doesn't mean we have to stick to it".


And Our defense continues to get more expensive. But that's what happens when you don't have any youngsters coming up who are cheap on the blueline.
Could you imagine if Geno/Sid took contracts that were market value? We'd barely have a team


Looking back over the past decade the only player the Pens have organically developed on the blue line is Maata. Others just didn't work out here(Goligoski, Despres,Pouliot). Add Harrington to that list as well.

I saw that Fluery got 3 years- 7 million a year so good for him though I think it is too much.

And I'm still trying to make heads/tails of the Arizona/Chicago trade.


You can add Dumo to your list. Letang and Gogo

The Chic/Arz trade was all about Chicago getting cap space. Hossa is retired


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Dumo wasn't organic, we got him in a trade. Letang didn't fall into the decade category either. If I remember correctly the Pens had to choose b/n Gogo and Letang for reasons I'm not sure of.

I got the gist of the trade Chi/Ar for cap space but the other players?


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:00 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Dumo wasn't organic, we got him in a trade. Letang didn't fall into the decade category either. If I remember correctly the Pens had to choose b/n Gogo and Letang for reasons I'm not sure of.

I got the gist of the trade Chi/Ar for cap space but the other players?



We got Dumo in a trade from Carolina, but he had never really played for Carolina (he was still at Boston College when Carolina had his rights, they signed him to an entry level contract after he left BC, but was traded to us a month after, before ever playing in Carolina's system), then spent almost 2 years at WBS before playing for the Pens.

So, I'd personally count that as "organic".


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:08 pm 
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I'll add that I don't think it invalidate's your point, fractal. Just a "for the record" kind of thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
fractalsteel wrote:
Dumo wasn't organic, we got him in a trade. Letang didn't fall into the decade category either. If I remember correctly the Pens had to choose b/n Gogo and Letang for reasons I'm not sure of.

I got the gist of the trade Chi/Ar for cap space but the other players?



We got Dumo in a trade from Carolina, but he had never really played for Carolina (he was still at Boston College when Carolina had his rights, they signed him to an entry level contract after he left BC, but was traded to us a month after, before ever playing in Carolina's system), then spent almost 2 years at WBS before playing for the Pens.

So, I'd personally count that as "organic".


The past decade the Pens have done poorly building a D corp from drafting them to developing them. If you look at the current roster that goes for most of it as well.
We hit on Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Throw Fleury in there as well. Might be able to say the same thing about Guentzel in a few years.
Sure, the Pens developed Dumo and they got that part of it right but they have been terrible aside from him grooming young d men brought up through their system.

I guess it really doesn't matter because the window is what it is and we have the pieces to another cup before it is shut. After 87/71 fade away it most likely is going to be barren in the Pens world.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:38 am 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
fractalsteel wrote:
Dumo wasn't organic, we got him in a trade. Letang didn't fall into the decade category either. If I remember correctly the Pens had to choose b/n Gogo and Letang for reasons I'm not sure of.

I got the gist of the trade Chi/Ar for cap space but the other players?



We got Dumo in a trade from Carolina, but he had never really played for Carolina (he was still at Boston College when Carolina had his rights, they signed him to an entry level contract after he left BC, but was traded to us a month after, before ever playing in Carolina's system), then spent almost 2 years at WBS before playing for the Pens.

So, I'd personally count that as "organic".


The past decade the Pens have done poorly building a D corp from drafting them to developing them. If you look at the current roster that goes for most of it as well.
We hit on Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Throw Fleury in there as well. Might be able to say the same thing about Guentzel in a few years.
Sure, the Pens developed Dumo and they got that part of it right but they have been terrible aside from him grooming young d men brought up through their system.

I guess it really doesn't matter because the window is what it is and we have the pieces to another cup before it is shut. After 87/71 fade away it most likely is going to be barren in the Pens world.


Definitely a non-issue if looking at the past. If the Penguins actually had a majority of their draft picks and didn't win three cups, then I guess there'd be a point. If anything, the Penguins making something out of nothing with defensemen has actually been a bit of an amazing feat.

The Penguins have "revitalized" or pushed the potential of more than enough defenders in the NHL to make their drafting a nonfactor. It's actually a pretty big list. Niskanen, Oleksiak (maybe), Daley, Schultz, Cole come off the top of my head. Three of those were major reasons why the team won the cup twice. They were also able to sign a few guys to help them along in the years between Cups. Guys like Paul Martin come to mind. The Penguins have had several of their own drafted players develop into talented NHL defensemen during Crosby's tenure that they later traded for other assets. Robert Bortuzzo has become a reliable NHL player. He was traded for Ian Cole, who helped the team win two cups. Ben Lovejoy was a bottom pairing guy who played his best hockey of his career in the first of back-to-back Cups. If you recall, he was with the Ducks for two years before getting traded back to Pittsburgh for Simon Despres, easily a top 4 defender drafted by the Penguins if not for injury. In retrospect, while still a bad trade, what happened happened, and I wouldn't take back that Cup.

Most forget Ryan Whitney, another player the Penguins drafted and developed. Yes, he was the fifth overall pick, and I guess one could consider him a "bust" at the position, but not really. It was a very, very weak class. Of the 291 players drafted, only 7 became All Stars. That list of 7 isnt too impressive either: Rick Nash, Keith, Jay Bouwmeester, Alex Semin, Joffrey Lupul, Cam Ward, Frans Nielsen. Whoop de doo. Duncan Keith is the best player from that draft (#54 overall). Whitney was traded to Anaheim for Chris Kunitz and Eric Tangradi. This was an absolutely outstanding trade. If Kunitz were drafted in 2002, he'd easily be a top 3 pick behind Keith and Nash. This was still the Patrick era. Good job by Shero to recognize the value of the more mobile Dmen because he exploited Anaheim in this deal. The point being, the Penguins used their assets to get better. It should be mentioned that Whitney played eight seasons, and he was an NHL caliber play during those years, and I feel like he would have been a much better player had he not suffered some pretty brutal injuries. He finished top 15 in Norris voting in his second year with the Penguins. That ankle injury forced him to retire at 30.


I see someone else mentioned Goligoski and how he was traded for James Neal.

There were also some Penguins defensemen who had success but did not yield any sort of valuable return because the team let them walk instead of trade them during the deadline or trade their rights during the offseason. Brooks Orpik, drafted by the team, is the one that comes to mind, but Niskanen (trade) was also allowed to play out his contract without any value added in return. Same goes for Rob Scuderi, who signed a lucrative deal with the Kings during the offseason after Crosby's first Cup. I think Ron Hainsey played well for Carolina, but there's no doubt he got much more money from Toronto than he would have otherwise because of his performance with the Penguins.


This got me a bit curious about the draft picks in and out for the Penguins. I went back to the point where I felt the Penguins really felt like they had a chance of winning the cup, 2008. Here's what I found.

Draft picks traded
2008 1st rd pick (#29; Roman Josi pick 38, Slava Voynov pick 32) (Hossa trade)
2008 2nd rd pick (#60; Toronto picked current Penguin Jimmy Hayes with this pick) (Hal Gill trade)
2009 2nd rd pick (#91) (Guerin trade)
2009 5th rd pick (#150) (Gill)
2009 7th rd pick (#210) (draft pick trade)
2010 2nd rd pick (#50) (Jordan Leopold trade)
2010 7th rd pick (#200) (draft pick trade)
2011 3rd rd pick (#83) (Dan Hamhuis rights)
2011 4th rd pick (#113; ended up being Tobias Rieder, a solid player) (Mathieu Garon trade)
2011 7th rd pick (#203; became Ryan Dzingel) (Kovalev trade)
2012 7th rd pick (Tomas Vokoun trade)
2013 1st rd pick (Iginla)
2013 5th rd pick (Morrow for Morrow trade)
2014 3rd rd pick (Lee Stempniak trade)
2014 5th rd pick (Marcel Goc trade)
2015 1st rd pick (David Perron trade)
2015 3rd rd pick (Goc again)
2015 4th rd pick (Winnik trade)
2016 1st rd pick (Kessel)
2016 2nd rd pick (Winnik. Insanity)
2016 3rd rd pick (Kessel)
2016 3rd rd pick (Schultz)
2016 7th rd pick (Bortuzzo/Cole swap)
2017 1st rd pick (Ryan fucking Reaves)
2017 2nd rd pick (Hainsey)
2017 4th rd pick (Fehr salary dump)
2018 1st rd pick (Brassard)
2018 3rd rd pick (Sheahan/Wilson)
2018 4th rd pick (Payment to TB for workaround with Philly contract)
2019 3rd rd pick (Brassard)
2019 4th rd pick (Oleksiak)
2019 6th rd pick (Archibald trade)
2020 2nd rd pick (Fleury to Vegas guarantee)


Draft picks acquired
2009 3rd rd pick (Malone traded to TB)
2009 5th rd pick (Michael Sersen [lol, who?] traded to TB)
2010 6th rd pick (#152) (Chris Peluso trade [who??])
2011 7th rd pick (#208; turned into Scott Wilson)
2012 1st rd pick (#8 Derrick Pouliot; vomit!)
2012 3rd rd pick (#81 Oskar Sundqvist)
2012 4th rd pick (Mark Letestu trade)
2013 2nd rd pick (Tyler Kennedy)
2013 3rd rd pick (Morrow for Morrow trade)
2013 7th rd pick (Eric Tangradi trade)
2014 5th rd pick (Ben Lovejoy trade)
2016 2nd rd pick (Sutter traded in a fleecing. Womp womp.)
2016 3rd rd pick (Bennett to NJ)
2017 2nd rd pick (Reaves traded to PITT)
2018 3rd rd pick (Brassard)
2018 4th rd pick (Pouilot to VAN)
2018 5th rd pick (Sheahan/Wilson swap)

By my math, that's 33 draft picks shipped out in 10 years with only 17 coming back. I'm counting 6 of 10 possible first rounders traded too. Combine that with the fact that the Penguins have been drafting at the bottom of the round mostly, it really shows how skilled the staff was in finding other avenues for success and by squeezing all they could out of guys they drafted in the mid and late rounds like Rust, Guentzel, Wilson, etc. Free agent signing Conor Sheary also included in there.

Imagine a Steelers draft history without 6 of 10 1st round picks the last 10 years. It wouldn't be a pretty team. See ya Pouncey, Heyward, Decastro, Shazier, etc. The team wouldn't look good ignoring the factor that the Penguins/Steelers got value for those picks (Kessel, Hossa, Perron, etc.). If Shero/Rutherford weren't mostly wonderful at trading, this team would have been buried to hell, as they flipped the traded players over and over in a cycle and usually didn't lose too much value. Think how Goligoski became Neal became Hornqvist. Think how Staal became Sutter+parts(Dumo) became Bonino+parts. Funny enough, we all know that Shero/Rutherford were the duo in that original trade. Shero made a shit ton of mistakes. Look at who Crosby had to play with the majority of his career. Man, he was good at trading though.That was his strength as a GM, and he used that strength. One of those 1,000 ways to skin a cat things.


Last edited by Hacksaw Jim Duggan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:27 am 
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Great post Hacksaw


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:51 pm 
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As a side, it should also be said that we're comparing two totally different scouting philosophies and staffs here, as well as two totally different minor league systems.

Shero wouldn't be caught dead drafting someone like Sprong in 2009. Shero made a concerted effort to replenish draft picks around 2012, but he really just hatcheted them the rest of the time, except for a brief period where he kept his first round picks. Most of his fruit beared after he was fired.

Rutherford is totally butchering the Penguins draft picks, dispensing them to other teams like candy, but at the same time, his drafts have a much sounder philosophy under Patrick Allvin and crew. Draft players with speed, who come from anywhere, and who are productive with some talented traits.

It'll be interesting to see how the two GMs compare when Rutherford's tenure with the team ends.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Another thing on Dumo.

When he was traded to Pittsburgh, the Penguins staff most certainly a) had scouting reports on him b) actively scouted him before the trade. The player then developed under the Penguins. Yes, you can call Dumo an organically developed player by the Penguins. It's mostly the same process with some changes in staff between the amateur and pro scouts. They all work together, and they especially would have worked together when Shero and Rutherford were working through the Staal trade. If you can't call Dumo a developed player because the player wasn't drafted by the team, then by that logic, I can take credit for any and all the players drafted with first round picks that were traded by Pittsburgh because the rights to that pick were originally the Penguins.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
As a side, it should also be said that we're comparing two totally different scouting philosophies and staffs here, as well as two totally different minor league systems.

Shero wouldn't be caught dead drafting someone like Sprong in 2009. Shero made a concerted effort to replenish draft picks around 2012, but he really just hatcheted them the rest of the time, except for a brief period where he kept his first round picks. Most of his fruit beared after he was fired.

Rutherford is totally butchering the Penguins draft picks, dispensing them to other teams like candy, but at the same time, his drafts have a much sounder philosophy under Patrick Allvin and crew. Draft players with speed, who come from anywhere, and who are productive with some talented traits.

It'll be interesting to see how the two GMs compare when Rutherford's tenure with the team ends.



Good point. Shero had a infatuation with college guys. Along with any puck moving defenseman he could get his hands on; with the philosophy of "we'll flip these dmen for forward since dmen are more valuable"

Well the problem is they didn't develop them (or enough of them) to have that pipeline clogged where other teams saw significant potential in the youngesters. Then Shero doubled down by signing/acquiring old dman to block their development (Douglas Murray/Eaton)! Really stepping on his dick with his overall plan.

New regime comes in and finally Shero's college kids are ready to fill the depth roles the Pens desperately needed. Yes you can say and give Shero credit, but the contracts he was giving out didn't align with his drafting philosophy. You have to wonder how much he and Bylsma butted heads in terms of the playing time and opportunities given out.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
Another thing on Dumo.

When he was traded to Pittsburgh, the Penguins staff most certainly a) had scouting reports on him b) actively scouted him before the trade. The player then developed under the Penguins. Yes, you can call Dumo an organically developed player by the Penguins. It's mostly the same process with some changes in staff between the amateur and pro scouts. They all work together, and they especially would have worked together when Shero and Rutherford were working through the Staal trade. If you can't call Dumo a developed player because the player wasn't drafted by the team, then by that logic, I can take credit for any and all the players drafted with first round picks that were traded by Pittsburgh because the rights to that pick were originally the Penguins.


Never said Dumo wasn't developed by the Pens.
By being organic I mean being drafted and developed by the organization. Maybe 'organic' is not the right word to use.
What I said is that the Pens, for the past decade haven't done a good job of drafting D men and developing those drafted pieces.
You made a great point about acquiring talent on the blue line through trades and how they got the right pieces at the correct time.
The reclamation of a few of them has been outstanding and maybe Gonchar gets some credit. I don't know if that is the case so I'll leave it to others to fill us in on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Jacques Martin probably deserves some credit, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Penguins signed Derek Grant to a 1 yr contract today.

Wouldn't be surprised if he makes the team. He's taken limited faceoffs throughout his career, but he's at 53%. Really blossomed a bit and show a scoring touch (18.5% shooting will go way down). What's most impressive is that when Ryan Getzlaf and Ryan Kessler went down last year, Grant was the team's 1C for awhile. He didn't embarrass himself, either. I couldn't imagine saying the same about Rowney. The Ducks made a bad move with replacing Grant with Rowney, especially at that term.

Some are conjecturing this could mean a trade for Pitt. I think it's just another solid depth signing, something they lacked last year. Remember that Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney were the starting 3C and 4C opening night last year. Grant would be the 6th C.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:16 am 
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Honestly, I don't know much about the player. Saw that he be used on PK and PP so that really adds to the depth. Have to find a replacement for Sully's puppy Kuhnackel.

Does this mean that Brassard to wing is going to be what we see early in the season?

Have to love the depth we have now at C.


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