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 Post subject: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Thought I'd roll this one out.

Talk is that Rutherford might make a ton of moves. I don't know. Who knows?

I'd really like to see Letang gone, but that's more of a lottery bet. The team can find a few "transition" guys to replace him, and the return on investment would probably be worth it for the cap space alone. I guess I'll just be glad that Letang has a long offseason to workout and relax. That doesn't really resolve the brain issue. Hell, the team could trade him, trade a 6th rounder for Trevor Daley with Detroit, grab a guy like Enstrom or De Haan in FA, and then call it a day. I was talking to some buddies of mine. Letang hasn't played even above average hockey for about 750 calendar days. That's two seasons. He was terrible in the 16-17 season before his injury, and he often looked like an AHL/ECHL IQ at points throughout the year. There's a fine line that most teams, and especially most fans, don't want to cross. The 08-09 Pens didn't want to. They wanted to bring the boys back together. That's why money was given to guys like Dupuis and Kunitz. Sometimes you just gotta cut bait with a player or players, despite any successes or future potential and despite fear of the unknown. It was obvious after the Boston series in 2013 that the team needed to move on from Fleury. That was a decision no one was going to make. The value of change led to Matt Murray's two Stanley Cups. The indecision on Fleury put the team in a purgatory in net for a long time. I don't want to see them strapped to Letang, thinking they have to keep riding him out there so he can be that #1 D they need. I can give the benefit of the doubt, but I hope next year is not like this year. Or the year after that...

I think the Penguins can become a better team in a Kessel trade. The problem is the logistics of it make no sense. A lot of that has to do with Kessel's cap hit. $6.8 isn't too much at the moment, especially when Evander Kane just set the market at $7. Kessel is coming off a 92-point season, and he was a major reason the team won those two cups. I'd bet on a Kessel bounce back above all else. Kessel has a lot of value, but it's not to the point where I'd be particularly satisfied with a return. Even if the package is around some young guys on the blueline or on wing, where the team isn't really directly addressing the loss of offense from Kessel's departure, any potential high-end free agent replacement would end up costing the team around Kessel's cap hit. The wings are thin in FA. Do the Penguins really think they could bring in a guy like JVR, who tallied about 40 points less than Kessel this season, at a rate too much lower than that $6.8? Then again, maybe that fact is the reason Kessel might be at his highest value now. Maybe some fringe team would overpay. There are a lot of sucker GMs in the NHL. Carolina and Vancouver are good spots for such suckers. Minnesota? I like players on all three those teams, especially the blueline the Canes have.

There's also the Daniel Sprong factor. I don't really think the defense of either men are as bad as people claim, but the player comparison is pretty spot on. The question is, why is it a bad thing to have two one-dimensional snipers on the team?

I don't buy Kessel is a cancer, and I think Sullivan's distaste for him his overstated. Seems nothing more than talk. Just stupid media talk.

However, it was particularly noteworthy that Sullivan said Kessel wasn't dealing with a major injury. Bullshit. He looked like a Make a Wish child out there on some shifts. Just terrible.

I don't think the Penguins will get Domi. I think the Coyotes are too enamored with their rebuild.

A LOT of dead weight on the Penguins. If Phil wants to play on L2, you play him there. Rutherford is lying to the media, saying line balance won the team the Cup both seasons. Kessel was with Malkin a ton in the most recent Cup win. They stacked that line.

If I'm Rutherford, my offseason goals are threefold

1) Re-establish bottom 6 depth with turnover. Someone will take Sheary. He's a useless playoff player. He's proven that three years running. I'm not too much of a fan of Aston-Reese. I see no harm in trying him in the bottom 6, especially if he's playing over Rowney. Please play Daniel Sprong every day. I believe he's no longer arb eligible. They're going to be forced to do just that. Fuck off, Kuhnackl. See if Blueger can play. Don't have any more Reaves/Fehr type signings or trades. Here might be an unpopular opinion. I think Bryan Rust has maxed out as a player, and with his injury concerns and a raise incoming, he's the type of guy I'd look to move in a trade.

2) When re-establishing the bottom 6, find the right type of players to play with Derrick Brassard. He was dealing with an injury, too, but he has more in him. Here's an idea. This player was a top 20 Selke candidate two years running with Brassard on his line. He doesn't make much but he's an RFA due for a big raise this year, but anything above league minimum is too much for Melnyk. The Senators aren't going to need him during their rebuild. Trade for Mark Stone. In my world, with Rust out of the picture, there's his replacement at RW. Mark Stone or Max Domi? It's easy for me.

3) Make a move to limit Letang's minutes. This could be a big move for a top 2/4 Dman, or it could be a move for a more consistent three pairings. I think I've seen enough of Oleskiak to not be too impressed. Find a better fit.


The schematics of the team are the problem of Sullivan. He needs to button down on the basics. I blame Jacques Martin just as much. That's for a different time.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:06 am 
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I think people need to get the idea of Letang and Kessel being traded out of their head. Not only do they have big cap numbers (which limits the teams in play), both players also have NTC's (which further diminishes your partners).

I've said this a billion times: I like the Defensemen on this team as INDIVIDUALS, but the chemistry just seems off. Feels like there is no natural ebb. Maybe that's because our entire team defense has sucked basically the entire year? Roll the tape from the beginning of the season and then look at the Washington (and even Philly series). There was no improvement in that area despite having better players.
I'm fine with keeping Olek, but I think they might want to trade Schultz or Maata. Which again I like their skillsets...they just aren't bringing what I thought they would for their pricetags. Remember this is one of the highest paid defensive groups in the league!

You wonder what kind of impact Tochett had on the F group? Seemed like he at least had Kessel's ear. And no, I don't believe Kessel is a cancer. I think he's a guy who will always piss a coach off bc he doesn't give 100% effort during the regular season. But he's been money during the playoffs so I'm not gonna bitch at his approach.

Sheary definitely needs to go. He's another highly paid guy who seems to be a passenger during the playoffs. He's a weakling, can't create offense by himself. What about a Sheary for Domi trade? AZ gets an established F and we get a bit of a crapshoot at a cheaper price. I have no idea if they are of equal value...just throwing it out there.

Rowney needs to go. Kuhn is ok as the 13th F but you know he's gonna get a ton of games because Sully loves him. Agree with Bleuger and some others who could fill out the bottom 6 and be just as effective.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:43 pm 
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DK had an article this morning where he listed a lineup.

Guentzel, Crosby, Horny
Hags, Malkin, Kessel
ZAR, Brassard, Sprong
Kuhnackl, Sheahan, Rusty

That’s not bad at all.

If JR can improve the blue line like you guys point out, they will be back in the mix again.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:53 pm 
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If you were going to give it a whirl with trading Letang (and they probably won't, anyway, seem content to chalk last season up to injury recovery rather than phenomenal lack of hockey IQ at times), this would be the season to do it, simply because his contract, while it seems like an albatross to us, is actually rather cap-friendly (not to mention cost-controlled), compared to what other top defensemen on the open market will be signing for, and yes, he still has enough reputation in the league at this point for someone to at least take a gamble. Next season, if he has another down year, his value for money will be in the toilet, and a trade would be either not worth it, impossible or just done for cap relief. Someone on another site brought up the situation Chicago is in vis a vis holding on to Seabrook longer than they should have. They are now very much left holding the bag.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
I

Sheary definitely needs to go. He's another highly paid guy who seems to be a passenger during the playoffs. He's a weakling, can't create offense by himself. What about a Sheary for Domi trade? AZ gets an established F and we get a bit of a crapshoot at a cheaper price. I have no idea if they are of equal value...just throwing it out there.

Rowney needs to go. Kuhn is ok as the 13th F but you know he's gonna get a ton of games because Sully loves him. Agree with Bleuger and some others who could fill out the bottom 6 and be just as effective.



I don't see the value ARZ would see in Sheary. I know those guys love their analytics over there. Maybe they'll see in simple terms that Sheary is one of the better EVP producers in the league. I doubt it. Domi was one of the better players for ARZ down the stretch and has about 5 times the pedigree.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:25 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
DK had an article this morning where he listed a lineup.

Guentzel, Crosby, Horny
Hags, Malkin, Kessel
ZAR, Brassard, Sprong
Kuhnackl, Sheahan, Rusty


That’s not bad at all.

If JR can improve the blue line like you guys point out, they will be back in the mix again.


That's a bit of an odd bag there, especially the third line. I would be willing to experiment with ZAR and Sprong, but I don't think you're helping out Brassard and fitting the mold of "four scoring lines" and "balanced lines" that the Penguins want. It definitely magnifies the depth at RW and the total lack thereof at LW. I don't know if Rust at 3rd line LW is the answer. I think this just points moreso to one of the RW off the team before the season starts. Keep in mind Hagelin may be gone to FA after next season, too. From a team building standpoint, if Rust isn't capable of playing LW, I'd try to find a guy this season who can slot there.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:17 am 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
I

Sheary definitely needs to go. He's another highly paid guy who seems to be a passenger during the playoffs. He's a weakling, can't create offense by himself. What about a Sheary for Domi trade? AZ gets an established F and we get a bit of a crapshoot at a cheaper price. I have no idea if they are of equal value...just throwing it out there.

Rowney needs to go. Kuhn is ok as the 13th F but you know he's gonna get a ton of games because Sully loves him. Agree with Bleuger and some others who could fill out the bottom 6 and be just as effective.



I don't see the value ARZ would see in Sheary. I know those guys love their analytics over there. Maybe they'll see in simple terms that Sheary is one of the better EVP producers in the league. I doubt it. Domi was one of the better players for ARZ down the stretch and has about 5 times the pedigree.


Yea I'm honestly ignorant on Domi. I heard positive things about him when he broke into the league and then the last I heard they were disappointed in him and seemed his production paid off and they weren't as high on him anymore. That sounded a little like Sheary so I assumed they would have similar value.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:24 am 
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I'm pretty ignorant to our prospects, so maybe this is more me not knowing that an actual problem.

With that said, what's our current depth in WB?

Obviously, Sprong is there, but what else do we have?

I think my biggest concerns for next year are defense, and what we have left in the pipeline. Both of our recent cup runs happened due to a strong influx of talent than came up out of the minors when needed. I don't think that's a coincidence. Guys get hurt, need a break, etc. If you have some talent in the minor that can be called up on a whim and still succeed, I think that's a huge luxury. Not only because if gives your top guys more flexibility for rest, but because you can bring a couple guys up on the cheap instead of going out and overpaying for free agents.

Do we still have that level of talent to come up and contribute in WB, or have we bled that source dry over the past few seasons?


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:10 am 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I'm pretty ignorant to our prospects, so maybe this is more me not knowing that an actual problem.

With that said, what's our current depth in WB?

Obviously, Sprong is there, but what else do we have?

I think my biggest concerns for next year are defense, and what we have left in the pipeline. Both of our recent cup runs happened due to a strong influx of talent than came up out of the minors when needed. I don't think that's a coincidence. Guys get hurt, need a break, etc. If you have some talent in the minor that can be called up on a whim and still succeed, I think that's a huge luxury. Not only because if gives your top guys more flexibility for rest, but because you can bring a couple guys up on the cheap instead of going out and overpaying for free agents.

Do we still have that level of talent to come up and contribute in WB, or have we bled that source dry over the past few seasons?



Prospects are what they are. It's hard to tell how they'll really shape out when they hit the league. The Penguins had one of the lowest "ranked" prospect pools in the league before winning those two cups. It's not really surprising. They've had to string together a scant number of low-round picks and UDFAs to try and get anything of value running on about a decade now.

If you were to construct a top-10 prospect pool for guys for the Penguins right now, you'd likely get very similar scouting reports to guys that were in WBS a few years ago. I'm not too bullish on most of the current guys, but I could have said the same about Rust, Sheary, and Kuhnackl. The only guy I was excited about was Guentzel, and he's lived up to that. The good thing for the Penguins is they don't really need guys who need to carry the team on their back for stretches. So, while Rust/Sheary/Kuhnackl have more or less run their course here, it's not like the Penguins have to replace Malkin or Crosbys production with fringe 4th liner X.

That being said, what youre seeing appears to be what you're going to get. I'm sure they'll try Sprong every day. I think Simon might get a few more looks. Keep in mind, the instant impact of guys like Rust, Sheary, Kuhnackl, and to a lesser extent Wilson was aided by the fact that Sullivan had been their coach the entire season in WBS and he had a comfort with these players. Simon was as inconsistent and sloppy as one could get at times, but he showed some flashes and Sullivan may trust him more next season. Aston-Reese. Eh. We'll see. I feel he's either big time or no time.

Blueger needs to either get a look or get traded. He's old enough that he should be getting playing time over Rowney. I think he can be a better two-way player than Rowney with more of a scoring touch and better at the draw.

Adam Johnson might be a guy to watch eventually. He was signed as a UDFA earlier in 2017 and showed some skill. He's a pretty quick player and has decent edges. If anyone could be the next Conor Sheary, it might him. If he explodes for WBS next season off the bat, I think he might have preferential call up over some other guys.

Di Pauli could be the worker type player like Rust.

So, at forward, this wave of prospects will be ZAR/Simon part 2, Dea, Blueger, Sprong, and Di Pauli, with maybe Johnson. If the Penguins can find a guy or two from that group to be a contributing regular, that'll probably be enough. Two years from now, things might look better.

There are a few exciting guys lower down the totem pole, but no one you'll probably see this year unless they just totally go above and beyond at camp. I'm excited for these guys moreso than the current WBS guys. I'd say Jordy Bellerive has me at that Guentzel level of excitement. He absolutely blew up the WHL last year. Another one of those UDFAs. Bjorkqvist is probably a low-ceiling NHLer a few years out.

Anthony Angello might be in WBS next year, but I think given his size and history of progression, he won't be ready for the NHL. He's someone to watch though. He's 6'5 or so and plays physical and smart.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Believe I read that Simon either wants a one way contract or he's going to walk to the KHL. If that's the case, goodbye Simon.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:20 pm 
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He'd be cheaper on a one-way deal


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Domi traded to Montreal for Galchenyuk.

I think this is a trade that both teams win. Meh. Let me rephrase that. I think it's a neutral trade. Galchenyuk didn't want to be there. The team gets a comparable player in talent and age. The Canadiens are bare bones with skilled forwards, and it looks like they're going to lose a few more soon, so any position is a good place, even if they got rid of a "center."

Arizona gets a player who can score goals.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:14 am 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
He'd be cheaper on a one-way deal


But then what do you do with him? Aside from that one stretch with Crosby, he wasn't very productive.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
He'd be cheaper on a one-way deal


But then what do you do with him? Aside from that one stretch with Crosby, he wasn't very productive.


See if he works out. If not, healthy scratch. If not, release.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
Domi traded to Montreal for Galchenyuk.

I think this is a trade that both teams win. Meh. Let me rephrase that. I think it's a neutral trade. Galchenyuk didn't want to be there. The team gets a comparable player in talent and age. The Canadiens are bare bones with skilled forwards, and it looks like they're going to lose a few more soon, so any position is a good place, even if they got rid of a "center."

Arizona gets a player who can score goals.

Arizona wins this IMO


Last edited by Suwanee88 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Anyone hear exactly what happened to Jordy Bellerive? I heard he, along with two others were hurt at a stag party where a fire broke out. So far everything I have found is sketchy in detail.
The kid is being looked at as a possible top prospect after blowing it up in the WHL last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:14 pm 
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The Pens released something earlier today saying they'd been in contact with him, and someone following the team tweeted out that he isn't the guy in critical condition. Other than that, not much of substance.

Edit: Somebody threw gas on a bachelor party bonfire, so serious burns all around. Jordy's hand may be pretty badly messed up.


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Trotz just stepped down.

I'm sure this is similar to Cowher or Dungy - the lack of a Cup became such an albatross, and now that he's finally won one he is ready to move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Most likely.
For being 55 years old he looks to be in his late 60's.

And how close did the Grubauer choice almost cost him?


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Trotz just stepped down.

I'm sure this is similar to Cowher or Dungy - the lack of a Cup became such an albatross, and now that he's finally won one he is ready to move on.


Actually seems to be about money.

Quote:
Barry Trotz had a clause in his contract where if he won the Stanley Cup he could accept a two-year extension with a $300k bump in salary. Obviously since he was only making $1.5M, low by today's NHL coach's standards, a $1.8-million salary doesn't cut it. So Trotz stepped down.


https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/barr ... anley-cup/

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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:20 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Pabst wrote:
Trotz just stepped down.

I'm sure this is similar to Cowher or Dungy - the lack of a Cup became such an albatross, and now that he's finally won one he is ready to move on.


Actually seems to be about money.

Quote:
Barry Trotz had a clause in his contract where if he won the Stanley Cup he could accept a two-year extension with a $300k bump in salary. Obviously since he was only making $1.5M, low by today's NHL coach's standards, a $1.8-million salary doesn't cut it. So Trotz stepped down.


https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/barr ... anley-cup/


Yep -


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Wasn't aware of the Trotz salary details. thanks for posting.



In other news: Pens home opener is October 4th vs. the Caps.

Washington opens the season Oct. 3rd vs. Boston.

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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:57 pm 
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I think the Penguins did a great job this draft of valuing guys with talent who also produced. I'm really excited about Addison and Hallander.

As it looks like Phil will stay with the team (thank god) and Jeff Skinner is a hot trade rumor, it really seems like the team wants to make a move for a skilled LW. Keeping salary demands for next year in mind, as discussed earlier, I don't see how Bryan Rust is on the Penguins roster on opening night.

In fact, if I were a betting man, I imagine the team will have these guys shipped out in various trades.

http://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/752982
Ignore the actual trade returns and teams involved. Here's what the team would look like with a need for a #7 dman.

This would put the team in a situation where they'd definitely need to shed Hagelin in 19-20 and probably move on from Brassard and go to Sheahan at 3C. Still, this would be a hell of a roster for one year.

I could also see letting Sheahan walk and signing a guy for 4C and/or letting Blueger take it. If having Sheahan make 2.5+ million means you can't resign Brassard next year, see ya Sheahan.

Unfortunately, I don't see a scenario where Kunitz isn't on the team. At the same time, I think ZAR needs more AHL time. So it might be of value to have that corpse take the first 30 or 40 games.


In real news,

Simon and Sprong signed 2-year/750k, one-way deals.

In great news, Kuhnhackl did not receive a qualifying offer!

Neither did Sheahan, but the team is negotiating with him.

Great, great move to get rid of the fodder that was Kuhnhackl!


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:22 pm 
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I'm notholding my breath regarding Kuhn being gone -let's hope

And are you sure about the Phil thing? Seems like rumors are rampant that he wants to be on Sid or Geno's wing

Btw- Pens just signed Rust 4 yrs at $3.5M per


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 Post subject: Re: Penguins Offseason Thread 2018
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:47 pm 
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http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1806260128


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