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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
I guess I'm suggesting that when it really mattered, they were absent. Zero goals, zero assists, zero game saving plays. Let me be clear. I'm not bashing them. Sid and Geno are amazing players, and the rest of the team let them down.


Sid scored the goal in Game 5 to bring it to 2-2. Sid also cleanly won the faceoff to set up Letang's game-tying goal in Game 6. Sorry, I just don't lay any of this at Sid's feet.

Geno played like crap. Kessel played like crap. Brassard played like crap. Letang and Maatta both had some major mistakes. Murray let in some softies. Sheary and Rust were invisible. There's plenty of blame to go around - I just don't think Crosby is in the top 10.

agree with all that..


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
I guess I'm suggesting that when it really mattered, they were absent. Zero goals, zero assists, zero game saving plays. Let me be clear. I'm not bashing them. Sid and Geno are amazing players, and the rest of the team let them down.


Sid scored the goal in Game 5 to bring it to 2-2. Sid also cleanly won the faceoff to set up Letang's game-tying goal in Game 6. Sorry, I just don't lay any of this at Sid's feet.

Geno played like crap. Kessel played like crap. Brassard played like crap. Letang and Maatta both had some major mistakes. Murray let in some softies. Sheary and Rust were invisible. There's plenty of blame to go around - I just don't think Crosby is in the top 10.
Fair enough. At least you agree with half of my assertion. :lol:

And both of us are ignoring the injury issue with multiple players.

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Last edited by COR-TEN on Tue May 08, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:39 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
I guess I'm suggesting that when it really mattered, they were absent. Zero goals, zero assists, zero game saving plays. Let me be clear. I'm not bashing them. Sid and Geno are amazing players, and the rest of the team let them down.

Except that is not really accurate. Sid did have an assist last night. He registered at least 1 point in every game except game 2. And although Washington did an excellent job of limiting scoring chances and not allowing Sid to burn them he still dominationed the face off circle at a 70% clip. When your C is killing it like that on offensive zone face offs he is mostly certainly impacting the game and it should be resulting in more offensive opportunities. It is fair to say Crosby just didn’t have any superstar moments in game 6. But I don’t think it is fair to say he disappeared. Btw, more I think of it the more I hate Letang/Dumoulin pairing. I think Dumo has been so good that Letang just takes it for granted that he can shirk his defensive duties and freelance as much as he wants. I’m wondering if Letang would be better paired with a weaker defenseman knowing he has to stay at home more.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:45 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
I guess I'm suggesting that when it really mattered, they were absent. Zero goals, zero assists, zero game saving plays. Let me be clear. I'm not bashing them. Sid and Geno are amazing players, and the rest of the team let them down.

Except that is not really accurate. Sid did have an assist last night. He registered at least 1 point in every game except game 2.
I stand corrected. Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:59 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Interesting that all the focus is on Murray, Letang, and Maata.

Crosby and Malkin were irrelevant. The two supposed best players on the team didn't do much to affect the game. At least that's what it looked like to my tired eyes. Conversely, the two or three best players on the caps showed up and had an impact.


That's because Letang and Maata were actively hurting their team.

Sid and Malkin were playing their asses off for all 200 feet. They obviously didn't show up on the stat sheet as much as they should have, which I largely credit to Washington and their strategy of crowding the middle of the ice and reducing us to dump and chase, but Crosby and Malkin at least weren't hurting us in other aspects of the game.

I can't same the same for Letang or Maata who routinely let guys blow by them on the way to clean looks at our own net.
Thats like saying it's ok that Bell got 65 yards on 18 carries, BR threw for 200 yards, and AB pulled in 7 catches for 70 yards in a playoff loss. No points. But they really put in an effort and tried. I'm not buying it. I understand play doesn't necessarily translate to the stat sheet, but in the biggest game of the season, Crosby and Malkin(and Kessel) should be making an impact. It didn't look like it to me.


First of all that's a terrible analogy. You can't just crowd one zone of a football field and shut down an offense in football like you can in hockey. There's a 6 foot wide gap in hockey that you have to defend compared to a 50 yard wide one in football. The caps were crowding their defensive zone makings things very difficult for our offensive guys. The worst thing you can do against such a strategy? How about constant breakdowns of defensive responsibilities that lead to frequent odd man breaks the other way? Wanna take some guesses at the two guys most guilty of letting up just such odd man breaks?

Second of all, even with that said, I'm not saying it's acceptable. I'm only saying that's why we're talking more about Letang and Maata than we are those guys...which is exactly what you asked. Letang and Maata's shortcomings were far more egregious. Not only were they not providing offensive opportunities, but they were also leaving gaping holes in the defensive end that were frequently exploited.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Letang is a massive defensive liability now; he’s not very good with the puck, he’s slow to react and even after the fuck up at the start of the 3rd period in game 5 leading to Kuznetzov’s breakaway, he still was putting himself out of position on the ice (Pierre was dogging on him yet again in the broadcast last night)

The guy has lost multiple things. And, he isn’t that much of an offensive threat anymore, so what does that make him? A pretty average defenseman making quite a bit of cash.

He was on the ice and at least somewhat responsible for the biggest goals of the series;

Ovie winner in game 3.
Kuznetsov breakaway game 5.
Oshie winner game 5.
Kuznetsov series winner game 6.

He wasn’t the same this year (clearly) and just so happened to play some of his worst hockey against the Caps.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Letang is a massive defensive liability now; he’s not very good with the puck, he’s slow to react and even after the fuck up at the start of the 3rd period in game 5 leading to Kuznetzov’s breakaway, he still was putting himself out of position on the ice (Pierre was dogging on him yet again in the broadcast last night)

The guy has lost multiple things. And, he isn’t that much of an offensive threat anymore, so what does that make him? A pretty average defenseman making quite a bit of cash.

He was on the ice and at least somewhat responsible for the biggest goals of the series;

Ovie winner in game 3.
Kuznetsov breakaway game 5.
Oshie winner game 5.
Kuznetsov series winner game 6.

He wasn’t the same this year (clearly) and just so happened to play some of his worst hockey against the Caps.


You could make a great case that the Pens won the cup last year because Letang did not play! Letang should have been relegated to the third pairing and only playing 11-15 minutes per game - he's that bad. If they can't move him over the offseason - just dump his ass on the corner and take the cap hit! It will improve the team greatly without doing anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:57 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:

You could make a great case that the Pens won the cup last year because Letang did not play! Letang should have been relegated to the third pairing and only playing 11-15 minutes per game - he's that bad. If they can't move him over the offseason - just dump his ass on the corner and take the cap hit! It will improve the team greatly without doing anything else.


Cant argue with that.

Would take Trevor Daley and Ian Cole both over Letang


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:50 am 
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Last year I thought they won despite Letang being out.

This year I am more convinced they won because he was out.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:15 am 
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DP39 wrote:
I have not read any of this thread. I watch every game and read most posts in this forum though. There's something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while though and it's not because the Pens just got eliminated either....I know Malkin is a big man and considered more of a thoroughbred, but I get so tired of his lackadaisical effort on the routine plays. He's amazing 20% of the time when he is hustling, but man, the other 80% of the time he makes, what appear to be, lazy, stupid mistakes all over the ice. Is it me, or does anyone else notice that. Hornquist is about the same size (a few inches shorter) but he busts his ass the whole time he's out there.



Malkin was one of many guys hobbled:

Hags (obviously), Kessel, Malkin, Brassard - all with injuries entering the playoffs or injured during them

I hope(?) to god Rust was hurt bc he was a no show

There's all your secondary scoring


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:18 am 
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Pabst wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Pabst wrote:
From the article Obviously posted: "The Penguins scored 14 goals in this series. Sidney Crosby was on the ice for 13 of them."
So what? I'm no statistician, and am not going to scrub tape, but he may have been on the ice for those goals, but how many of them did he have an influence on?

Besides, Doesn't one expect your best offensive players to score goals and get assists? Again, it's like being OK with LeBron James scoring 20 with 5 assists in a playoff game.

I'm not suggesting there isn't blame to go around, but seriously, It's like Crosby and Malkin are above criticism for not playing like superstars when they are identified as superstars.

I'm also not overly upset. As has been stated, two consecutive cups is incredibly hard, and a threepeat is virtually unheard of. I'm completely ok with this loss. They've given me much pleasure over the last two years. I'd thank each and every player and coach. Hats off to them.


Sid had 8 points in the series, which tied for the lead among both teams (Guentzel). I think a more accurate analogy would be LeBron putting up 50 and no one else scoring in double digits.


Pretty much this.

Guys that showed up:
Sid
Horny
Jake
Dumo (who had to babysit Letang)
Sheahan

When your list is that short, you're not gonna get far


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:53 am 
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I thought Hags definitely had an impact once he was back in the lineup. Also thought Geno definitely managed to impact the series in the games he played, as well. Maybe not to the level we're used to, but he was positively noticeable.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:21 am 
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Ice wrote:
I thought Hags definitely had an impact once he was back in the lineup. Also thought Geno definitely managed to impact the series in the games he played, as well. Maybe not to the level we're used to, but he was positively noticeable.


IMO, after you get past Sid, Geno and Murray, Hags and Hornqvist are the two most important guys on this team. Don't get me wrong, Phil is a fantastic luxury and I wouldn't disagree if someone put him in that group as well, I just don't think he's quite as big of a chess piece.

They're both matchup nightmares for other teams.

Thunder and Lightning. Hornqvist might be the best in the league at creating chaos in front of the net.

And Hags is one of the best in the league at both forechecking and backchecking. His speed is just such an incredible weapon, and he's just so intelligent at utilizing it in different facets of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:26 am 
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Agree about Horny and Hags. Both are glue guys, both on and (I know this about Hornqvist, I assume about Hagelin) off the ice.

I'll add that whatever was wrong with Kessel going into the dance this year made it much easier to defend the Pens, who were basically a one-line team this playoff.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:53 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
DP39 wrote:
I have not read any of this thread. I watch every game and read most posts in this forum though. There's something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while though and it's not because the Pens just got eliminated either....I know Malkin is a big man and considered more of a thoroughbred, but I get so tired of his lackadaisical effort on the routine plays. He's amazing 20% of the time when he is hustling, but man, the other 80% of the time he makes, what appear to be, lazy, stupid mistakes all over the ice. Is it me, or does anyone else notice that. Hornquist is about the same size (a few inches shorter) but he busts his ass the whole time he's out there.



Malkin was one of many guys hobbled:

Hags (obviously), Kessel, Malkin, Brassard - all with injuries entering the playoffs or injured during them

I hope(?) to god Rust was hurt bc he was a no show

There's all your secondary scoring

Donnie, don't get me wrong, I realize we were a skating Mash unit out there at times, but to me, Malkin, even when healthy, takes too many plays off. Maybe it's his overall lackadaisical body language he presents, but it seems for every great, amazing thing he does on the ice, he does two things that appear just lazy and stupid or somehow not in sync with the person he's making a play with. It just seems the guy is oozing with obvious ability, but not putting in the effort 100% of the time to take advantage of it all (i.e. Sid). I get that everything you do on the ice isn't going to work, but man it looks like he's halfway going through the motions a bunch of the time on the ice. Left knee hyperextension injury notwithstanding, my 2 cents anyway.

Maybe the endurance of this long three year run had finally taken it's toll on some of the players (more than others) involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:04 pm 
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at least Letang has a hot wife...to go w/ his millions of $s...


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Malkin's two-way play the games in which he participated against the Caps was pretty darn good. He obviously didn't have the usual spring in his step, but I don't feel like the effort was lacking.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
DP39 wrote:
I have not read any of this thread. I watch every game and read most posts in this forum though. There's something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while though and it's not because the Pens just got eliminated either....I know Malkin is a big man and considered more of a thoroughbred, but I get so tired of his lackadaisical effort on the routine plays. He's amazing 20% of the time when he is hustling, but man, the other 80% of the time he makes, what appear to be, lazy, stupid mistakes all over the ice. Is it me, or does anyone else notice that. Hornquist is about the same size (a few inches shorter) but he busts his ass the whole time he's out there.



Malkin was one of many guys hobbled:

Hags (obviously), Kessel, Malkin, Brassard - all with injuries entering the playoffs or injured during them

I hope(?) to god Rust was hurt bc he was a no show

There's all your secondary scoring


I was wondering about Rust as well. He had some big goals the past two postseasons but this year he couldn't make it happen. I thought he should have been paired with Malkin more often because they did good things with Kunitz the last two years.

Too many injuries this year. I'll be watching to see who goes under the knife this offseason.

As to DP39's comments: not bashing your opinion but I think you are inflating things a bit.
In the 3 playoff cup runs that led to championships Malkin was the leading scorer in two of them. Probably our best defensive forward in those runs as well.
Won the Conn Smythe once and was in consideration last year. Sid was a worthy choice.

And Malkin was voted team MVP(which he has won several times prior) by his teammates and coaches just before the playoffs started this year.

One last thing, Malkin is 20th all-time in points in the playoffs. ALL-Time-go and look at the list, very impressive and he is only 31.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:46 pm 
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It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Ice wrote:
It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.


He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Ice wrote:
It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.


He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.


Man I wish I would have seen that, but I didn't. To me Rust had the same affliction as just about everyone else. They all seemed to be trying to stick handle through heavy traffic and kept getting stripped of the puck. In most cases credit to Washington for baiting that trap. In a few cases they were just losing puck on their own (you reading this Mr. Kessel?) To be honest Kuhnhackl and Sheahan were probably the only forwards not on the top line that seemed to have any clue what to do with the puck. The issue wasn't laziness, lack of heart, lack of desire etc... Sometimes you just have to give some credit to the opponent. And injury/fatigue was probably factoring in here as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Ice wrote:
It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.


He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.


No doubt that Malkin takes a game here or there off but that is in the regular season. Every player in the NHL can be accused of such. The season is a grind and to this point in his career and through 5 HC's I've never heard one of them criticize Malkin for such, even Thierren.

I wasn't really criticizing Rust for his play, I was pointing out that he had been a factor in secondary scoring the past two runs-mostly playing with Malkin and Kunitz. That is why I pushed for a line of Rust/Malkin/Hornqvist because that would be a tough line to match up against.
Rust was clutch during the back to back run but like so many of his teammates this year he wasn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:20 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Ice wrote:
It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.


He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.


Man I wish I would have seen that, but I didn't. To me Rust had the same affliction as just about everyone else. They all seemed to be trying to stick handle through heavy traffic and kept getting stripped of the puck. In most cases credit to Washington for baiting that trap. In a few cases they were just losing puck on their own (you reading this Mr. Kessel?) To be honest Kuhnhackl and Sheahan were probably the only forwards not on the top line that seemed to have any clue what to do with the puck. The issue wasn't laziness, lack of heart, lack of desire etc... Sometimes you just have to give some credit to the opponent. And injury/fatigue was probably factoring in here as well.


It was definitely there. I made some comments about in the gameday threads, even.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:36 pm 
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SteelWill wrote:
at least Letang has a hot wife...to go w/ his millions of $s...

ha..maybe she can convince his over paid ass to retire! :P can pens cut him without killing them cap wise? I don't know the cap reality in nhl. be great to trade his ass to some unsuspecting chump gm.. 7.5 million a year would be better spent elsewhere.
well tonight we coulda been celebrating our game 7 win.. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:38 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
SteelWill wrote:
at least Letang has a hot wife...to go w/ his millions of $s...

ha..maybe she can convince his over paid ass to retire! :P can pens cut him without killing them cap wise? I don't know the cap reality in nhl. be great to trade his ass to some unsuspecting chump gm.. 7.5 million a year would be better spent elsewhere.
well tonight we coulda been celebrating our game 7 win.. :cry:


I seriously doubt the Pens are going to trade Letang. I believe he has modified no-trade clause in his contract making it more difficult to execute if they went that way.

One thing that has rarely been spoken here is that Letang and his wife suffered a miscarriage during the first cup run. I believe it happened at the beginning of the playoffs in 2016.
I don't know for sure but his game really started to suffer about then and injuries followed him the next year.

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