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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:38 am 
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Flyers’ fans still bitching about the tripping not called.

Now on replay you can see Letang is going after the puck, in my mind.

Is it true the official can determine the player was going for the puck and therefore wave off any tripping call?

Just wondering whether it was that case, or whether it should have been called tripping.

Either way...not why the Flyers lost. I’m just telling them shit happens and how about the 4 on 3 PP they looked like ass on just before that play?

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:12 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Flyers’ fans still bitching about the tripping not called.

Now on replay you can see Letang is going after the puck, in my mind.

Is it true the official can determine the player was going for the puck and therefore wave off any tripping call?

Just wondering whether it was that case, or whether it should have been called tripping.

Either way...not why the Flyers lost. I’m just telling them shit happens and how about the 4 on 3 PP they looked like ass on just before that play?


Watched the tape and more analysis this morning. Couple things...
*Looks to me like not only was Letang going after the puck, but that his initial contact was with the puck. Don't know the answer to your question though, re: waving off tripping call.
*As for...not why the Flyers lost....who knows?? We would certainly be bitching like crazy had that happened to us. Think about that building yesterday, had Penguins goal been waved off and instead, the Cryers have their 3rd power play of the period down by a goal. Now....Flyers had done shit on their previous power plays, had only mustered three shots on goal for the period at that point, but who the fuck knows if Letang goes right back into the box having just come out and Pens are only up one goal instead of two, what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:31 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Flyers’ fans still bitching about the tripping not called.

Now on replay you can see Letang is going after the puck, in my mind.

Is it true the official can determine the player was going for the puck and therefore wave off any tripping call?

Just wondering whether it was that case, or whether it should have been called tripping.

Either way...not why the Flyers lost. I’m just telling them shit happens and how about the 4 on 3 PP they looked like ass on just before that play?


Watched the tape and more analysis this morning. Couple things...
*Looks to me like not only was Letang going after the puck, but that his initial contact was with the puck. Don't know the answer to your question though, re: waving off tripping call.
*As for...not why the Flyers lost....who knows?? We would certainly be bitching like crazy had that happened to us. Think about that building yesterday, had Penguins goal been waved off and instead, the Cryers have their 3rd power play of the period down by a goal. Now....Flyers had done shit on their previous power plays, had only mustered three shots on goal for the period at that point, but who the fuck knows if Letang goes right back into the box having just come out and Pens are only up one goal instead of two, what happens.


The guys on the broadcast were adamant it should have been a trip. Watched a little flyers postgame and their take was he tripped him with the skate and not the stick so the fact that he played the puck was moot. According to them (taken it with a grain of salt) it was certainly a missed call. The rulebook makes no such distinctions. A skate trip and stick trip are ruled and treated exatly the same.

Quote:
57.1 Tripping – A player shall not place the stick, knee, foot, arm, hand or
elbow in such a manner that causes his opponent to trip or fall.
Accidental trips which occur simultaneously with a completed play
will not be penalized. Accidental trips occurring simultaneously with or
after a stoppage of play will not be penalized.


Guys on NHL network said he played the puck therefore it was clean. Through my pens colored glasses I concur. But I can also admit had it happened to a Penguin I would have been screaming for a penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:48 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Flyers’ fans still bitching about the tripping not called.

Now on replay you can see Letang is going after the puck, in my mind.

Is it true the official can determine the player was going for the puck and therefore wave off any tripping call?

Just wondering whether it was that case, or whether it should have been called tripping.

Either way...not why the Flyers lost. I’m just telling them shit happens and how about the 4 on 3 PP they looked like ass on just before that play?


I would have called it a trip on Letang but I would have called embellishment on Couturier as well. Imagine the reaction to that?

The game was littered with questionable calls on both sides. The Konecny/Sheary battle on the wall should have been 2 on Sheary and 4 on Konecny but they called it even.

The Pens had ONE PP the whole game.

The throwing of beer cans at the bench was uncalled for. And the dumb fucks with bad aim were hitting their own team.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:59 am 
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I'm personally in favor of anything that makes Flyer fans more bitter.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:18 am 
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I'm not hockey rule book by any means but I thought I saw letang hit the puck first before contacting the flyer. I don't know it that negates the foul or not to officials. seems like the spinning dance move the flyer made was a bit excessive for the degree of contact. the flyers reacted like bitches after the play and completely blew up. not the mark of a winner.
if this play happened to pens id of been pissed too I suppose but I bet the pens don't melt down either.


Last edited by bam morris on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:34 am 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Flyers’ fans still bitching about the tripping not called.

Now on replay you can see Letang is going after the puck, in my mind.

Is it true the official can determine the player was going for the puck and therefore wave off any tripping call?

Just wondering whether it was that case, or whether it should have been called tripping.

Either way...not why the Flyers lost. I’m just telling them shit happens and how about the 4 on 3 PP they looked like ass on just before that play?


I would have called it a trip on Letang but I would have called embellishment on Couturier as well. Imagine the reaction to that?

The game was littered with questionable calls on both sides. The Konecny/Sheary battle on the wall should have been 2 on Sheary and 4 on Konecny but they called it even.

The Pens had ONE PP the whole game.

The throwing of beer cans at the bench was uncalled for. And the dumb fucks with bad aim were hitting their own team.


Had that happened though, it would have been no goal, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:35 am 
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bam morris wrote:
I'm not hockey rule book by any means but I thought I saw letang hit the puck first before contacting the flyer. I don't know it that negates the foul or not to officials. seems like the spinning dance move the flyer made was a bit excessive for the degree of contact. the flyers reacted like bitches after the play and completely blew up. not the mark of a winner.
if this play happened to pens id of been pissed too I suppose but I bet then pens don't melt down either.


Well, reading the NHL rulebook is about a complete waste of time because hockey refs take more lattitude with the rule interpretations than refs in any other major sport, in my opinion.

But the generally accepted standard there is that if the player plays the puck before contact is made, the contact is considered incidental and a non-penalty.

Now, they did adjust that a few years ago, but I think it only applies to when a player is diving for the puck to stop a break away. Previously, if you dove at a player that was on a breakaway, hit the puck, then tripped the player, it was a non-call. Now, that's a penalty, even if you did hit the puck first (although it's still not a penalty shot). I semi-confirmed this through some Googling.

However, I don't think the above rule change applies to other scenarios and they generally still adhere to the "play the puck first" standard.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:40 am 
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Yeah. I thought it was a penalty at first. The flyer was embellishing though, flipping as overly dramatic as possible. I also thought there were two other plays earlier in the game that looked like penalty's when penguin players got completely upended - no calls.

Some flyer threads last night were all over the officiating, but are a little less rabid this morning.

But I'm wondering if anybody thought the hit on Haglin that took him out of the game was questionable. I'm asking the experts. Hags just let go of the puck and Giroux put his shoulder into his face. He had time to temper his blow, but didn't. Looked like he wanted to take him out. Hags was all over the ice prior. Any word on his status?

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:04 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Yeah. I thought it was a penalty at first. The flyer was embellishing though, flipping as overly dramatic as possible. I also thought there were two other plays earlier in the game that looked like penalty's when penguin players got completely upended - no calls.

Some flyer threads last night were all over the officiating, but are a little less rabid this morning.

But I'm wondering if anybody thought the hit on Haglin that took him out of the game was questionable. I'm asking the experts. Hags just let go of the puck and Giroux put his shoulder into his face. He had time to temper his blow, but didn't. Looked like he wanted to take him out. Hags was all over the ice prior. Any word on his status?


That hit touched all kinds of gray areas for how refs call things, in my opinion.

He hit him in the face, but if you watch it again, he didn't really lean into the hit. He kind of tucked his arms and made his body vertical, it just so happened that his shoulder went into Hags' face. Should it be called? Yeah, I think so. Is that often called? Sometimes, sometimes not.

Another issue is whether or not he left his feet. The standard is generally that your feet shouldn't leave the ground before contact (but if they do in the aftermath, that's fine).

Giroux's feet seemed to leave the ice right about the same instance the hit happened.

So I think everyone will have different opinions about it and don't think most of those opinions would be wrong.

I've definitely seen what I'd describe as cleaner hits get called, and dirtier hits not get called. Just spin the wheel of NHL playoff officiating for your answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:31 am 
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The only questionable part of the Hagelin hit was that it was maybe late. Hagelin took two strides and then got hit.

The Letang play was just a freaking awesome, determined, aggressive play by Letang vs a Couturier who was only interested in turning his shoulder for a big hit on Letang. If Couturier had been aggressively going after the puck, Letang would never have even gotten to it in time. Instead, he took the time to turn his shoulder and go for the hit on Letang-- probably because he thought Letang was gunning for a big hit on him. To my incredible surprise, Letang never looked to do anything but play the puck, went balls out to get to it, and played the puck. The fact that Couturier went flying has nothing to do with anything except for him being caught flatfooted when Letang played the puck. Just a fantastic play by Letang... and about the 5th Penguins goal/scoring chance in the series that came from a player just out of the penalty box.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:50 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
fractalsteel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Flyers’ fans still bitching about the tripping not called.

Now on replay you can see Letang is going after the puck, in my mind.

Is it true the official can determine the player was going for the puck and therefore wave off any tripping call?

Just wondering whether it was that case, or whether it should have been called tripping.

Either way...not why the Flyers lost. I’m just telling them shit happens and how about the 4 on 3 PP they looked like ass on just before that play?


I would have called it a trip on Letang but I would have called embellishment on Couturier as well. Imagine the reaction to that?

The game was littered with questionable calls on both sides. The Konecny/Sheary battle on the wall should have been 2 on Sheary and 4 on Konecny but they called it even.

The Pens had ONE PP the whole game.

The throwing of beer cans at the bench was uncalled for. And the dumb fucks with bad aim were hitting their own team.


Had that happened though, it would have been no goal, right?


Good question as penalties are no yet handed out until the opposing team touches the puck. Did they ever touch the puck after the contact. If not, the goal could have stood. It would be up to the official to determine if it would have made a difference. I think the goal would not have counted as the Pens were already in the Flyers zone so they would have deemed the contact as virtually taking a possible defender out of the play. But..., I'm not sure either.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:52 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The only questionable part of the Hagelin hit was that it was maybe late. Hagelin took two strides and then got hit.

The Letang play was just a freaking awesome, determined, aggressive play by Letang vs a Couturier who was only interested in turning his shoulder for a big hit on Letang. If Couturier had been aggressively going after the puck, Letang would never have even gotten to it in time. Instead, he took the time to turn his shoulder and go for the hit on Letang-- probably because he thought Letang was gunning for a big hit on him. To my incredible surprise, Letang never looked to do anything but play the puck, went balls out to get to it, and played the puck. The fact that Couturier went flying has nothing to do with anything except for him being caught flatfooted when Letang played the puck. Just a fantastic play by Letang... and about the 5th Penguins goal/scoring chance in the series that came from a player just out of the penalty box.


I thought the hit was high, aiming for the head, which should have drew a penalty. Giroux did nothing to try to hit him lower, but kept his body high for a head impact.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:05 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The only questionable part of the Hagelin hit was that it was maybe late. Hagelin took two strides and then got hit.

The Letang play was just a freaking awesome, determined, aggressive play by Letang vs a Couturier who was only interested in turning his shoulder for a big hit on Letang. If Couturier had been aggressively going after the puck, Letang would never have even gotten to it in time. Instead, he took the time to turn his shoulder and go for the hit on Letang-- probably because he thought Letang was gunning for a big hit on him. To my incredible surprise, Letang never looked to do anything but play the puck, went balls out to get to it, and played the puck. The fact that Couturier went flying has nothing to do with anything except for him being caught flatfooted when Letang played the puck. Just a fantastic play by Letang... and about the 5th Penguins goal/scoring chance in the series that came from a player just out of the penalty box.


I thought the hit was high, aiming for the head, which should have drew a penalty. Giroux did nothing to try to hit him lower, but kept his body high for a head impact.
I thought it was late and high.

There seemed to be a lot of make up calls, or non calls, to make up for calls, or non calls, when a non call was made up for a call, or non call.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:11 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
Good question as penalties are no yet handed out until the opposing team touches the puck. Did they ever touch the puck after the contact. If not, the goal could have stood. It would be up to the official to determine if it would have made a difference. I think the goal would not have counted as the Pens were already in the Flyers zone so they would have deemed the contact as virtually taking a possible defender out of the play. But..., I'm not sure either.


My assumption is the play would have been blown dead immediately and a goal scoring play would not even have developed.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:00 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The only questionable part of the Hagelin hit was that it was maybe late. Hagelin took two strides and then got hit.

The Letang play was just a freaking awesome, determined, aggressive play by Letang vs a Couturier who was only interested in turning his shoulder for a big hit on Letang. If Couturier had been aggressively going after the puck, Letang would never have even gotten to it in time. Instead, he took the time to turn his shoulder and go for the hit on Letang-- probably because he thought Letang was gunning for a big hit on him. To my incredible surprise, Letang never looked to do anything but play the puck, went balls out to get to it, and played the puck. The fact that Couturier went flying has nothing to do with anything except for him being caught flatfooted when Letang played the puck. Just a fantastic play by Letang... and about the 5th Penguins goal/scoring chance in the series that came from a player just out of the penalty box.



Hits to the head are illegal, right? I'm with Crosby4life in that Giroux was leaving his feet when he hit Hagelin. Haven't heard squat about what he might be suffering from.
Don't forget that Giroux hit Letang much the same way earlier in the series but with his backside. Guy has a history of being on the edge.



On the trip or no trip Couturier definitely added to it trying to get the call.


Another penalty in the series that I found to be odd was Malkin 4 minute high stick to Konecny in game 4. He hit him with the but end of the stick and got him in the eye. I thought the rule stated that you got the extra 2 for drawing blood. If the refs were punishing Malkin for hitting the eye they should have called a game misconduct.

And on the sad but funny angle, Flyer fans are wondering if the only way Giroux wins a cup is to do so with another team. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:14 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The only questionable part of the Hagelin hit was that it was maybe late. Hagelin took two strides and then got hit.

The Letang play was just a freaking awesome, determined, aggressive play by Letang vs a Couturier who was only interested in turning his shoulder for a big hit on Letang. If Couturier had been aggressively going after the puck, Letang would never have even gotten to it in time. Instead, he took the time to turn his shoulder and go for the hit on Letang-- probably because he thought Letang was gunning for a big hit on him. To my incredible surprise, Letang never looked to do anything but play the puck, went balls out to get to it, and played the puck. The fact that Couturier went flying has nothing to do with anything except for him being caught flatfooted when Letang played the puck. Just a fantastic play by Letang... and about the 5th Penguins goal/scoring chance in the series that came from a player just out of the penalty box.



Hits to the head are illegal, right? I'm with Crosby4life in that Giroux was leaving his feet when he hit Hagelin. Haven't heard squat about what he might be suffering from.
Don't forget that Giroux hit Letang much the same way earlier in the series but with his backside. Guy has a history of being on the edge.



On the trip or no trip Couturier definitely added to it trying to get the call.


Another penalty in the series that I found to be odd was Malkin 4 minute high stick to Konecny in game 4. He hit him with the but end of the stick and got him in the eye. I thought the rule stated that you got the extra 2 for drawing blood. If the refs were punishing Malkin for hitting the eye they should have called a game misconduct.

And on the sad but funny angle, Flyer fans are wondering if the only way Giroux wins a cup is to do so with another team. Ha, ha, ha, ha.


Worked for Carter and Richards. LOL!

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:42 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Hits to the head are illegal, right? I'm with Crosby4life in that Giroux was leaving his feet when he hit Hagelin. Haven't heard squat about what he might be suffering from.
Don't forget that Giroux hit Letang much the same way earlier in the series but with his backside. Guy has a history of being on the edge.
And they call Malkin a goon and Crosby dirty, but they both get away with it because it's them.

And they also say that pens fans are obnoxious, disrespectful, stupid and are trolls. They keep repeating that when going to a pens game, they had beer thrown at them. Somehow apologizing for the shitshow at the end. Although some say they should be banned from the building's future events.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Personally awaiting the BethSteel Flyers post-mortem. Most of their fans are content to blame the Mike Johnston-esque coaching of Hakstol, reasonably bad defense, disappearing Voracek, and goaltending, in some order, at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:21 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
On the trip or no trip Couturier definitely added to it trying to get the call.

It came out last night that Couturier was playing on a torn MCL. The main purpose of that ligament is to prevent the knee from buckling inward.

I'm not sure if it was the same knee, but you have to think that was a factor in Couturier not being able to stay on his feet during that collision. He's either taking the impact on that leg, or he's trying to support his full weight on a busted knee. Either way, best of luck staying upright.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
fractalsteel wrote:
On the trip or no trip Couturier definitely added to it trying to get the call.

It came out last night that Couturier was playing on a torn MCL. The main purpose of that ligament is to prevent the knee from buckling inward.

I'm not sure if it was the same knee, but you have to think that was a factor in Couturier not being able to stay on his feet during that collision. He's either taking the impact on that leg, or he's trying to support his full weight on a busted knee. Either way, best of luck staying upright.



I knew of that information before I made my post. I'm sticking with the idea that Couturier embellished.
Have to admit that he was the best player on the ice yesterday even with the damaged knee.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Personally awaiting the BethSteel Flyers post-mortem. Most of their fans are content to blame the Mike Johnston-esque coaching of Hakstol, reasonably bad defense, disappearing Voracek, and goaltending, in some order, at this point.

Well to be fair, their goaltending WAS horrid.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Ice wrote:
Personally awaiting the BethSteel Flyers post-mortem. Most of their fans are content to blame the Mike Johnston-esque coaching of Hakstol, reasonably bad defense, disappearing Voracek, and goaltending, in some order, at this point.

Well to be fair, their goaltending WAS horrid.


On the flip side, after flashing his post-season form early on, Murray is back to being average, although many times in this series the defense let him down.

But whether you want to blame Murray or the defense, it’s a concern as the playoffs go deeper. It’s still looking like the potential fly in the ointment of us three-peating.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Murray has been average the past 2 games. The Laughton goal was terrible, the kind that can cost you a series.
I wonder if he isn't playing with a nagging injury because it looks to me like his quickness has been diminished recently.

Pens scored 28 goals in the Philly series and that isn't likely to happen going forward, not with the competition that remains. So Murray better get back to his 'A' game or the three-peat is going to be nearly impossible to pull off.

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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Flyers Game 6 game comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:45 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Murray has been average the past 2 games. The Laughton goal was terrible, the kind that can cost you a series.
I wonder if he isn't playing with a nagging injury because it looks to me like his quickness has been diminished recently.

Pens scored 28 goals in the Philly series and that isn't likely to happen going forward, not with the competition that remains. So Murray better get back to his 'A' game or the three-peat is going to be nearly impossible to pull off.

very true...need big time murray back.


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