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 Post subject: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:03 am 
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One week away. The Pens are playing their best hockey and I think Sid has a few more gears come playoff time and LeTang is finally coming around. They are looking good.

The Derick Brassard rumors are hot, but Ottawa is apparently asking for a 1, a top prospect and a 3rd piece. That’s ridiculous but I sure would love to see him as a 3C and drop Sheahan to 4C.

I am also seeing JG Pageau and Tomas Plekanec rumors too.

Discuss.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:54 am 
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That price for Brassard is high, but someone is likely going to pay it. I hope it's not us. Pageau might be an easier get, and you could plug him in for Rowney pretty easily.

Personally, I like how Sheahan has been working out, and think we could be fine with an upgrade at 4C.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:17 am 
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Ice wrote:

Personally, I like how Sheahan has been working out, and think we could be fine with an upgrade at 4C.


They could theoretically have a guy capable of centering the 4th line in Blueger or McKegg, but Sully has a hard on for Rowney


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:39 am 
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One might have thought McKegg was kidnapped by terrorists after they signed Sheahan. I'd almost forgotten he was still in the organization.

Blueger, as I think you may have mentioned (?) is on the Derrick Pouliot nacho eating development plan.

Hopefully, Rowney being Sullivan's boy won't preclude an upgrade at the position.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:12 am 
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Someone said this, but I'm going to copy it: Sheahan is a 3.5 C for a team like the Pens. Slightly not good enough for the 3C and too good for the 4C. And I am someone who really likes Riley and what he brings.

But he's just not meshing with Kessel right now and I'm not sure if he ever will. Which is weird because you'd think they'd be a great fit. Ideally yea you bring in someone like Brassard or whomever but that's gonna cost a TON of assets and JR is too smart to pay those prices knowing that there will be more of a Center market in the summer.

Gun to my head and asking what my crystal ball says: I think it's gonna be a lower level guy. Someone like Ryan from Carolina, Letestu, Cullen, etc.

I don't think Sheahan will bring out the best in Phil, but I think that's what we'll see. Heck someone like Ryan MIGHT work better with him and Sheahan goes down to 4C


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:09 pm 
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I'll agree with the idea Sheahan may be a 3.5, and hey, maybe somebody like Ryan (haven't heard his name linked yet per se, but it's an interesting one) or Letestu (have heard him mentioned, less interested), or even Cullen (not sure he's got a 3rd miracle run in him. He's been pretty bad this year, though some are just saying he's not a system fit) comes in and gets that chemistry going with Phil and we get that 3rd scoring line going again. Sheahan was in a pretty dark place when we acquired him, and he's shown slow but steady improvement so far.

Center depth is certainly the biggest remaining issue on this team.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I'll agree with the idea Sheahan may be a 3.5, and hey, maybe somebody like Ryan (haven't heard his name linked yet per se, but it's an interesting one) or Letestu (have heard him mentioned, less interested), or even Cullen (not sure he's got a 3rd miracle run in him. He's been pretty bad this year, though some are just saying he's not a system fit) comes in and gets that chemistry going with Phil and we get that 3rd scoring line going again. Sheahan was in a pretty dark place when we acquired him, and he's shown slow but steady improvement so far.

Center depth is certainly the biggest remaining issue on this team.



Hacksaw mentioned this prior, Crosby and Malkin have been shifted down to the third line a good bit lately. That is fine for periods of time in the regular season. It won't wash in the playoffs. We need both of them playing large minutes on lines that do damage;not cleaning up a weakness on the bottom line when the competition becomes fierce.

I don't know who to bring in. That is up to GM/coach. My guess is they go second tier and not a big name-for reasons that Brasco/Ice mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:21 pm 
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I don't think McKegg is an NHL player. I do think he's better than Rowney.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
I don't think McKegg is an NHL player. I do think he's better than Rowney.


To me, that's all you need though. Plus he fits our team profile with his speed.

He wasn't noticable when he played 3C and 4C for us. That's a bad thing with the former, but an ok thing with the latter. All he needs to do is get 8 mins/ night and not get scored on.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
I don't think McKegg is an NHL player. I do think he's better than Rowney.


To me, that's all you need though. Plus he fits our team profile with his speed.

He wasn't noticable when he played 3C and 4C for us. That's a bad thing with the former, but an ok thing with the latter. All he needs to do is get 8 mins/ night and not get scored on.


I don't know if I'd feel comfortable leaving a 4th line with McKegg, Reaves, and Kuhnackl out there in the playoffs asking them to just "not get scored on."

Both Reaves and Kuhnackl need an effective center to have any impact; otherwise, all they are pretty much doing is getting killed in CF and scoring chances against. So, if you're asking them "not" to get scored on, I don't know if you'll get that. McKegg isn't good enough defensively to stop these two from getting hemmed into the D zone. The versatility of the 4th line in previous years, namely Cullen's ability to win faceoffs, kill penalties, score SH, etc., really added a dimension teams like Washington didn't have. That is why they fail. When you have Stanley Cup aspirations, and I think center importance has been stated by JR in the last few weeks as key to that, you don't settle for lines that just hang on.

If the right people get scratched, Rust could be the guy the Penguins have at 4RW. I don't really know if I want to waste him with McKegg centering him. There are easy-to-acquire 4Cs that can do much more than waiver wire fodder like McKegg.

To me, the Penguins have these "assets" or at least players that can be shipped for $ and value:
Hunwick
Sheary
Sheahan (unlikely)
Cole
Sprong
Gustavsson
Jarry (unlikely)
DeSmith
Draft picks

Let's look at the current "best" roster the Penguins can make with the guys they have when healthy:

ZAR - Crosby - Sheary (we'll do this for now)
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Guentzel - Sheahan - Kessel
Simon - Rowney - Rust

6 D
Letang, Cole, Dumo, Oleksiak, Schultz, Maatta


They can go about this several ways. First, I think they could finally find that "guy" for Sid. He hasn't had that someone who can just be on his line for years on end since Kunitz/Dupuis and Guerin. They haven't had a big bopper there since Hossa. The musical chairs with L1 is a bit concerning to me but only to an extent. The same thing happened last playoffs with Sid and the Kids sputtering out and Kunitz getting some time there. Sid still won the CS. Is Kane that guy? I don't know, but let's use him as a placard for a possible lineup. I think any return for a winger would involve the exodus of another. We'll take the popular name Sheary out. For shits and giggles, we'll say the Penguins pick up one of Letestu/Cullen, as they are the hot names in the trade talk.

E. Kane - Crosby - Rust
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Guentzel - Sheahan - Kessel
ZAR- Letestu/Cullen - Simon (Kuhnackl, Reaves, Rowney)

I don't know if I'm a wonderful fan of that. I don't really see Kane as a good fit unless he's matched with a speed guy on the other side, but I also don't like Rust on Sid's wing. Maybe there's another guy there who serves a better purpose.

The second way would just be to trade a later pick for one of those guys listed earlier (Letestu, etc.)


ZAR - Crosby - Sheary
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Guentzel - Sheahan - Kessel
Simon - Letestu/Cullen- Rust

The third scenario would be to find that big-time center. This time, let's keep Sheary and assume a Brassard package includes something involving some combination of salary dump (hunwick?), Sprong, 1st, Gustavsson, or similar.

Guentzel/Simon - Crosby - Sheary
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Guentzel/Simon - Brassard - Kessel
ZAR - Sheahan - Rust

That seems like a cup-winning forward lineup. I think the Pens have the defensive depth and just enough prospects to get Brassard in and fit everything under the cap. That's not even including some form of Brassard retention.


In all these scenarios, center depth is addressed. It is the biggest issue on the agenda.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:46 pm 
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In my model I was thinking that one of Reaves/Kuhn would get scratched if Mckegg played 4C and Zar sticks (therefore bumping one of the wingers out).

Again I'd be ok with Rowney playing wing as he'd give you the versatility of having a guy take a defensive zone draw


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Really don't like the idea of acquiring Kane at the price Buffalo would ask.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:53 pm 
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Rust-Malkin-Hagelin are scoring points in bunches together -- do they get broken up?

Doesn't Horny go with Sid when he comes back to the lineup?


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:23 pm 
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steel wrote:
Rust-Malkin-Hagelin are scoring points in bunches together -- do they get broken up?

Doesn't Horny go with Sid when he comes back to the lineup?



So was Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist. It's more of an ask to put Hornqvist on the left wing on L3, a position he's not great at, then it would be to just move Rust down to his own line with the belief that it would open him up to more PK opportunities and change-of-pace situations. Lines change all the time though, and they could end up back together.

Hornqvist hasn't played with Sid regularly in more than a year, and it's clear that Sidney ideally wants two guys who can rush the zone with speed with him.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:46 pm 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
steel wrote:
Rust-Malkin-Hagelin are scoring points in bunches together -- do they get broken up?

Doesn't Horny go with Sid when he comes back to the lineup?



So was Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist. It's more of an ask to put Hornqvist on the left wing on L3, a position he's not great at, then it would be to just move Rust down to his own line with the belief that it would open him up to more PK opportunities and change-of-pace situations. Lines change all the time though, and they could end up back together.

Hornqvist hasn't played with Sid regularly in more than a year, and it's clear that Sidney ideally wants two guys who can rush the zone with speed with him.


That makes sense


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:44 am 
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steel wrote:
Rust-Malkin-Hagelin are scoring points in bunches together -- do they get broken up?

Doesn't Horny go with Sid when he comes back to the lineup?


Unfortunately Sid doesn't like Horny. And Rust with Sid is awful

So I think going back to Hags Geno Horny would be a good move and then that puts Rust with Sheahan on his left Wing (realize Rust isn't the greatest on the left side)


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:55 am 
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So...
Sheary/Sid/Simon
Hags/Malkin/Hornqvist
Rust/Sheahan/Kessel
Guentzel/Rowney/Reaves/Kuhnackl,

with ZAR sent back down to WBS?

Can't help but think this loses us the scoring talent of Guentzel (stuck on a completely hands-less 4th line) and ZAR (not even in the city limits anymore), and weakens the team for the stretch run.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:44 am 
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Ice wrote:
So...
Sheary/Sid/Simon
Hags/Malkin/Hornqvist
Rust/Sheahan/Kessel
Guentzel/Rowney/Reaves/Kuhnackl,

with ZAR sent back down to WBS?

Can't help but think this loses us the scoring talent of Guentzel (stuck on a completely hands-less 4th line) and ZAR (not even in the city limits anymore), and weakens the team for the stretch run.


I'd flip Sheary and Jake because Sheary has been ass the last 2 playoff runs

But yea that's how I would construct the lines


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:30 pm 
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PG reporting that Grabner is on the radar now. Not a C but he’s a good player; would bolster the top 6.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
PG reporting that Grabner is on the radar now. Not a C but he’s a good player; would bolster the top 6.

He's an absolute sniper and he's also pretty underrated on the PK. If Grabner is brought in it makes absolutely no sense to keep Kuhnhackl (cue the "it doesn't make any sense right now" comments)


No one has discussed the Mrazek trade to Philly: A 4th rounder this year, conditional 3rd in 2019, and Detroit retains half his salary. Are we in a buyers market, or did Detroit just get hosed?

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
PG reporting that Grabner is on the radar now. Not a C but he’s a good player; would bolster the top 6.

He's an absolute sniper and he's also pretty underrated on the PK. If Grabner is brought in it makes absolutely no sense to keep Kuhnhackl (cue the "it doesn't make any sense right now" comments)


No one has discussed the Mrazek trade to Philly: A 4th rounder this year, conditional 3rd in 2019, and Detroit retains half his salary. Are we in a buyers market, or did Detroit just get hosed?


I don't think you can really compare market for goalies to the market for centers. I don't think goalies are that highly valued. Mrazek is really kind of a middle of the road guy. There are probably half a dozen similar goalies like him available. And what playoff contender isn't already set in goal? Not to mention Detroit wasn't all that enamored with him. They left him exposed in the expansion draft.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:10 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
And what playoff contender isn't already set in goal?


Well, Philly, obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:26 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Pabst wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
PG reporting that Grabner is on the radar now. Not a C but he’s a good player; would bolster the top 6.

He's an absolute sniper and he's also pretty underrated on the PK. If Grabner is brought in it makes absolutely no sense to keep Kuhnhackl (cue the "it doesn't make any sense right now" comments)


No one has discussed the Mrazek trade to Philly: A 4th rounder this year, conditional 3rd in 2019, and Detroit retains half his salary. Are we in a buyers market, or did Detroit just get hosed?


I don't think you can really compare market for goalies to the market for centers. I don't think goalies are that highly valued. Mrazek is really kind of a middle of the road guy. There are probably half a dozen similar goalies like him available. And what playoff contender isn't already set in goal? Not to mention Detroit wasn't all that enamored with him. They left him exposed in the expansion draft.

Grabner would be an interesting addition.

Mrazek was about done in Detroit. His head is screwed on only half the time and he isn't well liked in the locker room. Philly took a cheap gamble but they still don't have enough in net to be dangerous.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Ice wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
And what playoff contender isn't already set in goal?


Well, Philly, obviously.

One team that just recently lost both their goaltenders to injury. Who else would have needed a G that would driven up the price? What other playoff team would Mrazek improve?

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:36 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Ice wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
And what playoff contender isn't already set in goal?


Well, Philly, obviously.

One team that just recently lost both their goaltenders to injury. Who else would have needed a G that would driven up the price? What other playoff team would Mrazek improve?


Oh, I just like poking Philly with a stick, Pro, in case our buddy Beth happens to be watching.


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