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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:51 pm 
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I agree with the last part. Would be interesting to see something like that. Still not sure that adjusting (and for God's sake, quantifying) the existing selection formula and process wouldn't yield about the same results afterward.


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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
My family is very Notre Dame friendly, large Italian catholic clan, and I’ve been arguing with most of them during the holidays that ND just didn’t belong. And while one game doesn’t prove that, there really is nothing impressive about that team, whose only quality win came way back in their opener against Michigan. And that one all of a sudden, doesn’t look quite as “quality”.
The CFP committee needs to come to the realization that just because a team goes undefeated, doesn’t mean they are one of the top 4 teams in the country, especially one that isn’t tied to a conference, and can pick and choose their cupcakes....


I hate Notre Dame. But they had a schedule full of perennially strong programs.

Michigan
Stanford
Va Tech
FSU
USC

then add in the teams that are usually bowl bound

Wake
Pitt
Syracuse
Navy
Northwestern

I mean, Jesus Christ, Who do you want them to schedule? You can't expect them to know years in advance that USC, FSU and VA tech would suck in 2018.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm 
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R S wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
My family is very Notre Dame friendly, large Italian catholic clan, and I’ve been arguing with most of them during the holidays that ND just didn’t belong. And while one game doesn’t prove that, there really is nothing impressive about that team, whose only quality win came way back in their opener against Michigan. And that one all of a sudden, doesn’t look quite as “quality”.
The CFP committee needs to come to the realization that just because a team goes undefeated, doesn’t mean they are one of the top 4 teams in the country, especially one that isn’t tied to a conference, and can pick and choose their cupcakes....


I hate Notre Dame. But they had a schedule full of perennially strong programs.

Michigan
Stanford
Va Tech
FSU
USC

then add in the teams that are usually bowl bound

Wake
Pitt
Syracuse
Navy
Northwestern

I mean, Jesus Christ, Who do you want them to schedule? You can't expect them to know years in advance that USC, FSU and VA tech would suck in 2018.


It doesn't matter. The schedule they handpicked turned out to be shit, and they should be treated accordingly. But even if it was more unlucky than intentional that ND scheduled cupcakes, teams controlling their own non-conference schedules is a huge problem in CFB, imo, and Notre Dame has the ability to do that every year (with some limitations because of their ACC tie in), which makes it a poster child.

Put it this way, boxing gets dinged because the best fighters duck other good fighters just so they can preserve their records. Why doesn't CFB get dinged for it the same way?

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:49 pm 
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Get ready for Clemson to make history again.

If the Steelers continue their nosedive, best strategy is "Win Never-Get Trevor 2021".

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:59 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Get ready for Clemson to make history again.

If the Steelers continue their nosedive, best strategy is "Win Never-Get Trevor 2021".


Or next season they can tank for Tua.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:59 pm 
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knife. If you seriously mention they possibly set up a cupcake schedule, then you're too bias to even argue with. They schedule coast to coast top programs from Florida to fucking Cali. Next year they'll be playing at Georgia.

I'm curious the last time a SEC played an early season game at ND or Michigan or Ohio State or USC

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:03 am 
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R S wrote:
knife. If you seriously mention they possibly set up a cupcake schedule, then you're too bias to even argue with. They schedule coast to coast top programs from Florida to fucking Cali. Next year they'll be playing at Georgia.

I'm curious the last time a SEC played an early season game at ND or Michigan or Ohio State or USC


I didn’t say that “set up a cupcake schedule.” I said they set up a schedule that turned out to be cupcake. It doesn’t matter what they expected it to be. It should be evaluated for what it turned out to be.

And LSU isn’t really the team you want to come at with when trying to attack SEC schedules. We opened with Miami this year, have a home and home with Texas the next two years...then I think in a couple years it’s a home and home with Clemson.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:17 am 
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If the PS can get Ferrell or Wilkins and pass on them, management needs to go into concussion protocol.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:40 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
If the PS can get Ferrell or Wilkins and pass on them, management needs to go into concussion protocol.


I think both are gone before 20. Dexter Lawrence will be there but the Steelers will pass and the Pats will take him.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:41 am 
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SteelKnife wrote:
R S wrote:
knife. If you seriously mention they possibly set up a cupcake schedule, then you're too bias to even argue with. They schedule coast to coast top programs from Florida to fucking Cali. Next year they'll be playing at Georgia.

I'm curious the last time a SEC played an early season game at ND or Michigan or Ohio State or USC


I didn’t say that “set up a cupcake schedule.” I said they set up a schedule that turned out to be cupcake. It doesn’t matter what they expected it to be. It should be evaluated for what it turned out to be.

And LSU isn’t really the team you want to come at with when trying to attack SEC schedules. We opened with Miami this year, have a home and home with Texas the next two years...then I think in a couple years it’s a home and home with Clemson.


They don't go cross country. Multiple times. And if an undefeated ND isn't worthy with that schedule and going undefeated. Then I guess Clemson should have been left out too because they played in the cupcake ACC which was worse than usual this year.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:50 am 
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R S wrote:
SteelKnife wrote:
R S wrote:
knife. If you seriously mention they possibly set up a cupcake schedule, then you're too bias to even argue with. They schedule coast to coast top programs from Florida to fucking Cali. Next year they'll be playing at Georgia.

I'm curious the last time a SEC played an early season game at ND or Michigan or Ohio State or USC


I didn’t say that “set up a cupcake schedule.” I said they set up a schedule that turned out to be cupcake. It doesn’t matter what they expected it to be. It should be evaluated for what it turned out to be.

And LSU isn’t really the team you want to come at with when trying to attack SEC schedules. We opened with Miami this year, have a home and home with Texas the next two years...then I think in a couple years it’s a home and home with Clemson.


They don't go cross country. Multiple times. And if an undefeated ND isn't worthy with that schedule and going undefeated. Then I guess Clemson should have been left out too because they played in the cupcake ACC which was worse than usual this year.


I'm not disagreeing with you on Clemson.

Clemson is the best team in the country, but I don't think they proved that before last night that they were one of the 4 best.

But I'm not sure what you mean by "with that schedule" re ND. In another year it would have been a tough schedule. This year, it was not.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:30 am 
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so you go by strength of schedule even if a team has a loss or two? You putting such a weight on schedule would have left the best team in the country at home. Absurd!

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:19 pm 
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The extra game ND does not play makes a huge statistical difference. Imagine what would happen if they were forced to play Ohio State at the end of the season on top of the 10 games. It cuts your odds of going into the playoffs nearly in half.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:50 pm 
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R S wrote:
so you go by strength of schedule even if a team has a loss or two? You putting such a weight on schedule would have left the best team in the country at home. Absurd!


Yes. Because if a team doesn't prove it on the field, the only way to say they're the "best" is to go based on paper and projections. Football isn't played on paper and projections (see last night's game).

I want minimize projection as much as possible. You can never eliminate it unfortunately.

The three most important questions to me when deciding who should be in the playoffs:

1. What did they do?
2. Who did they do it against?
3. How did they look doing it?

I don't think Clemson fares much better than UCF in that breakdown.

Notre Dame either.

Neither fare better than Georgia. Georgia with two losses against two top 10 teams and dominating every other game on their schedule (including a top 10 Florida) is more impressive to me than what ND or Clemson did prior to bowl season.

My dream scenario is we get to a point in CFB where, more often than not, none of the top 4 are undefeated because they played tough regular season schedules.

As it stands, there is absolutely no incentive for a P5 team to play anyone tough out of conference, if having a 0 in the loss column is more important than the surrounding circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:10 pm 
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Just a terrible system to decide who gets to play in the tournament. Let’s face it, whatever we think about Notre Dame’s schedule, they will get the benefit of the doubt simply because they are Notre Dame. I can’t imagine anyone that consistently watched ND play this past season can truly think that they were one of the top 4 teams, except ND homers of course.
Not all conferences are created equal, but there is something to be said about running a gauntlet of teams that are familiar with what you can and can’t do. Survive that, and you get rewarded with a high quality opponent in a conference championship game.
Anytime we have polls and opinions determine championship participants, it a poor system. Expand and allow each power 5 champion, regardless of record, inclusion. That leaves 3 at large spots to be filled. Not perfect, but better than what we have now, IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:25 pm 
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If you run the table, that means something. ND had a gauntlet of a schedule staring at them at the beginning of the year. It turned out not as tough as it would have been many years, but still not cupcake by any means.

Georgia got thoroughly outplayed by Texas. They had a chance to prove they deserved and they went ahead and lost another game. And I don't buy the bullshit that they weren't into it becasue they got left out of the playoffs. They aren't BAMA, they haven't won shit or earned the let down excuse,

I'd like to see an 8 game playoff, but the best team in the nation just won 15 games in a row and won a championship. So it all worked out in the end. So what's the complaining about? The two best teams played at the end.

PS: 8 game playoffs would only mean the insufferable fans would be bitching and moaning about the team ranked 9th and left out of the dance.

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 Post subject: Re: CFB Playoffs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:32 am 
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R S wrote:
If you run the table, that means something. ND had a gauntlet of a schedule staring at them at the beginning of the year. It turned out not as tough as it would have been many years, but still not cupcake by any means.


Their schedule was weak. I know what they expected but how it turned out matters more than that.

Quote:
Georgia got thoroughly outplayed by Texas. They had a chance to prove they deserved and they went ahead and lost another game. And I don't buy the bullshit that they weren't into it becasue they got left out of the playoffs. They aren't BAMA, they haven't won shit or earned the let down excuse,


You can't factor in bowl games when deciding who should have made the playoffs which are decided before bowl games. And I completely buy they weren't into it. How many players across CFB sit out of non-CFP games? How many sit out of CFP games? Bowl games outside the CFP are consolation games.

Quote:
I'd like to see an 8 game playoff, but the best team in the nation just won 15 games in a row and won a championship. So it all worked out in the end. So what's the complaining about? The two best teams played at the end.


Sure, this year worked out pretty well.

Can you honestly say the four best teams made it in 2014? 2015? 2017? 2018?

I think the only year that it was pretty clear the four best teams were in was 2016.

I don't think it was clear who were the best teams this year after Bama and Clemson.

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