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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Man, you guys really hate having your point of view questioned, don’t you? It’s almost like you adhere to football the way extremists cling to religion. I guess that’s why “fan” is short for “fanatic.”

I don’t agree with everything he said. It’s an interesting point of view. There is nuance to this situation. If writers and articles didn’t have agendas, they would look like Excel spreadsheets reporting only the facts.

I guess how I approached it was, did the author raise a point that I hadn’t previously considered? Is it a valid point? Is the author credible? Does the article, as a whole, seem like a stretch?

If you did all of that and still came to the same conclusion, more power to you. If you read all or part of the article and immediately wrote it off as “snowflake bullshit,” I think you’re selling yourself short.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:53 pm 
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He's right though.

I just don't think he did a good job getting his point across.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:14 pm 
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he's not right though, unless the nfl, or the Steelers, forced Ryan's dad to say that they were keeping the details of his recovery private until Ryan himself was willing to share, at Ryan's request. unless his dad or Ryan was lying, then that's the reason we don't know anything. not some conspiracy between the league, the Steelers, and whatever dark chamber of ghouls that run the whole show from behind the curtain that this reporter wants us to believe exists. besides...we all know those guys are too busy controlling instant replay to have time to convince his father to lie about the reasons the family is not sharing details. i don't think the reporter even researched enuff to know Ryan's dad said that. i think he's lazy, or so agenda driven he chose to not absorb the quote from Ryan's dad. idc which, and neither would surprise me. journalism is changing it is what it is. not what it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:19 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
He's right though.

I just don't think he did a good job getting his point across.


In what context is he right?


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Man, you guys really hate having your point of view questioned, don’t you? It’s almost like you adhere to football the way extremists cling to religion. I guess that’s why “fan” is short for “fanatic.”

I don’t agree with everything he said. It’s an interesting point of view. There is nuance to this situation. If writers and articles didn’t have agendas, they would look like Excel spreadsheets reporting only the facts.

I guess how I approached it was, did the author raise a point that I hadn’t previously considered? Is it a valid point? Is the author credible? Does the article, as a whole, seem like a stretch?

If you did all of that and still came to the same conclusion, more power to you. If you read all or part of the article and immediately wrote it off as “snowflake bullshit,” I think you’re selling yourself short.


Greg Lloyd said it best, its turning into a game for girls already. For us to self-flagellate every fucking time there is a serious injury is a publicity stunt all its own.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752 ... games-soul

Is football dangerous? No shit! Thats why people watch. Goodell needs to embrace this. The author needs to watch slow pitch softball and mind his business.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:36 pm 
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sinceiwas4 wrote:
he's not right though, unless the nfl, or the Steelers, forced Ryan's dad to say that they were keeping the details of his recovery private until Ryan himself was willing to share, at Ryan's request. unless his dad or Ryan was lying, then that's the reason we don't know anything. not some conspiracy between the league, the Steelers, and whatever dark chamber of ghouls that run the whole show from behind the curtain that this reporter wants us to believe exists. besides...we all know those guys are too busy controlling instant replay to have time to convince his father to lie about the reasons the family is not sharing details. i don't think the reporter even researched enuff to know Ryan's dad said that. i think he's lazy, or so agenda driven he chose to not absorb the quote from Ryan's dad. idc which, and neither would surprise me. journalism is changing it is what it is. not what it was.


You don't think the NFL has spinmasters and influencers who frame news stories to show the NFL in the most positive light? You really think a multi-billion dollar company doesn't do that?


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:42 pm 
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i do believe they do that. i do believe they have done that with this story even. what i don't believe is that they are forcing Ryan or his family to keep quiet so they can. which you would have to believe to agree with the article.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
sinceiwas4 wrote:
he's not right though, unless the nfl, or the Steelers, forced Ryan's dad to say that they were keeping the details of his recovery private until Ryan himself was willing to share, at Ryan's request. unless his dad or Ryan was lying, then that's the reason we don't know anything. not some conspiracy between the league, the Steelers, and whatever dark chamber of ghouls that run the whole show from behind the curtain that this reporter wants us to believe exists. besides...we all know those guys are too busy controlling instant replay to have time to convince his father to lie about the reasons the family is not sharing details. i don't think the reporter even researched enuff to know Ryan's dad said that. i think he's lazy, or so agenda driven he chose to not absorb the quote from Ryan's dad. idc which, and neither would surprise me. journalism is changing it is what it is. not what it was.


You don't think the NFL has spinmasters and influencers who frame news stories to show the NFL in the most positive light? You really think a multi-billion dollar company doesn't do that?


I don't think anyone would dispute this. However, the author is implying the league is somehow spinning or controlling Shazier's narrative. I don't believe that is in any way true.

From everything I've seen, the league, the Steelers, and the media are projecting and reporting on what Ryan allows and wants. Nothing more.

The author is making implications that aren't accurate, currently. IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:54 pm 
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"I don't think anyone would dispute this. However, the author is implying the league is somehow spinning or controlling Shazier's narrative. I don't believe that is in any way true.

From everything I've seen, the league, the Steelers, and the media are projecting and reporting on what Ryan allows and wants. Nothing more.

The author is making implications that aren't accurate, currently. IMO."


exactly.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:04 pm 
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This article is such a waste of words. There are way more important things to be concerned about than Ryan Shazier getting paralyzed doing something he loved and I love to watch.

Write an article about:
opioids and big Pharma
Obesity and reduced physical activities in schools
How are cigarettes still a thing?
Eating wings and drinking beer
Binge drinking
Uninsured gun owners
Gun manufacturers dumping guns in the US with no threat of lawsuits
Legalized MJ - does it create burn outs?

Let’s write a clickbait article at playoff time about an accident that happens once every 10 years. The guy isn’t even dead or permanently paralyzed that we know of.

Priorities America; Priorities.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Again, the question I have is, why would the NFL even need to twist the narrative?

The controversies around NFL injuries is centered around the NFL hiding data and also from them circumventing their own fake policies to get players back onto the field.

Cam Newton getting blasted in the head but then returning to the field 2 plays later? Yeah, that's a controversy. That's something the NFL would want to control the narrative on.

But there was nothing to hide with the Shazier injury, no blame to place the blame on the NFL. It's not a common injury, it wasn't created by a controversial play, and wasn't like the NFL was teaching players to lead with their helmets while hiding long term risk from it.

It was simply an unfortunate, and rare, event that happened during what would normally be a relatively safe play. If you're going to try and use it to push the narrative that the NFL is too dangerous of a sport to continue on, I'd say there's hundreds of WAY better examples of injuries that are much more common that you should be using. That narrative may be correct, but this is not the example you want to use.

That'd be like someone pointing to Blake Griffin getting elbowed in the head during the Clippers game the other night and saying basketball shouldn't continue being played because it's too dangerous.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:46 pm 
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I take any article written about sports especially football from a non-football source aka GQ, BuzzFeed, etc as persona non grata. Football in and of itself is a sport where masculinity and violence is celebrated and where men impose their will on each other to achieve a desired outcome for victory.

Football in all of its glory is a violent, athletic, cerebral undertaking that will eventually sap the will of most men that play the game and it definitely will claim the body. This I know for a fact.

This doesn't sit well w/ the "soccer is true football", hipster, participation trophy crowds who are taught to be in touch w/ their feelings and put themselves in a woman's shoes. This doesn't sit well for the single mothers who don't want their sons to get hurt. This doesn't sit well with the women who show up just to be seen and say they went to a venue and "look @ me w/ my pouty duck face selfie at <insert stadium name>".

True football fans understand what this game is about. For true fans, they embrace their team of choice because they embrace the ideal, or the city, or the state or even certain players who perform athletically on a level that they can only hope to achieve. They appreciate the chess match in the game. They appreciate the violence that they wish they could inflict on a bully, annoying co-worker or pointed-hair boss. (See Terry Tate Office Linebacker). They watch their team overcome and they watch their team fall in defeat and outside of Cleveland, where their fans are now numb to defeat (see 0-16 parade), they feel the same sense of loss because of how they identify w/ their team.

Football is about excellence, hard work and a will to win against all odds. Football is overcoming a difficult injury and returning to one of the world's biggest stages and excelling for all to see. Football is falling down, getting knocked down and shrugging it off and telling the other side to bring it. Football is ,after all the de-cleating hits, nut punches in the pile, cussing and trash talk, the ability to look at your opponent on the other side at the end of the game and give a nod of respect, handshake or hug and depart knowing that you gave it all you had no matter the outcome.

Football represents man. Football represents life.

Mike Mitchell in all his ineptitude did say one thing correctly. "We all know what we signed up for in this game. If I had to do it all over again I would do the same."


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:50 pm 
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What the hell is wrong with eating wings and drinking beer??? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:53 pm 
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I was hesitant to post this here as this subject is very raw fo us Steeler fans but it was by Drew Magary from Deadspin and I enjoy their work at times. I think the part that made me really feel for Ryan was the part about the Bills player who was the last player to get to this point from an injury. I hope beyond anything that it doesnt come to that for Ryan. Just sad that he went from one of the best players in the league to Bam. He joins this group of players that this has happened to and I think he is probably the most talented of all. Just sux

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:15 pm 
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RooneyTunes wrote:
I was hesitant to post this here as this subject is very raw fo us Steeler fans but it was by Drew Magary from Deadspin and I enjoy their work at times. I think the part that made me really feel for Ryan was the part about the Bills player who was the last player to get to this point from an injury. I hope beyond anything that it doesnt come to that for Ryan. Just sad that he went from one of the best players in the league to Bam. He joins this group of players that this has happened to and I think he is probably the most talented of all. Just sux


Deadspin went to shit about 3 years ago. I used to enjoy visiting it often. It's now Complete utter garbage. Its become more of a political site that a funny sports site. MeanBarlow's comment makes total sense now. I won't bother reading the article.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Hoping this brightens the thread up...

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:51 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
This article is such a waste of words. There are way more important things to be concerned about than Ryan Shazier getting paralyzed doing something he loved and I love to watch.

Write an article about:
opioids and big Pharma
Obesity and reduced physical activities in schools
How are cigarettes still a thing?
Eating wings and drinking beer
Binge drinking
Uninsured gun owners
Gun manufacturers dumping guns in the US with no threat of lawsuits
Legalized MJ - does it create burn outs?

Let’s write a clickbait article at playoff time about an accident that happens once every 10 years. The guy isn’t even dead or permanently paralyzed that we know of.

Priorities America; Priorities.


None of those things directly involve sports. He's a sports writer.

If we go by your idea of priorities, writing or talking about football at all is a waste of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:33 pm 
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Quote:
Gun manufacturers dumping guns in the US with no threat of lawsuits


Ummm by that logic people would be able to sue alcohol manufacturers for DUI deaths. Doesn’t happen. And holding a company liable for the actions of an individual is a huge slippery slope.

What about car companies? Anybody sue a car company after some scumbag drives said car through a crowd of people?

Let’s just agree your comment was silly and not well thought out.

Best thing about this thread are the photos of the smile on Shaziers face.

That right there is a grounded and quality individual. I hope he plays again. If he doesn’t though, he most definitely will find success doing something else in life.

Same could not be said about a lot of pros if something similiar happened to them. The injury would become their crutch...


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:30 am 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Man, you guys really hate having your point of view questioned, don’t you? It’s almost like you adhere to football the way extremists cling to religion. I guess that’s why “fan” is short for “fanatic.”

I don’t agree with everything he said. It’s an interesting point of view. There is nuance to this situation. If writers and articles didn’t have agendas, they would look like Excel spreadsheets reporting only the facts.

I guess how I approached it was, did the author raise a point that I hadn’t previously considered? Is it a valid point? Is the author credible? Does the article, as a whole, seem like a stretch?

If you did all of that and still came to the same conclusion, more power to you. If you read all or part of the article and immediately wrote it off as “snowflake bullshit,” I think you’re selling yourself short.


It’s not an “interesting point of view” because the entire premise that Shazier’s injury has been “whitewashed” is not held up by the evidence.

Everyone knows he was paralyzed.

Everyone knows those injuries can happen. And that football players often end up life being in constant everyday pain or have lack of mobility. Hell...one of the key stories leading up to Super Bowl XL was a feature on Jerome Bettis and I remember them showing him in his house being barely able to walk up and down stairs.

I don’t need to see story after story complete with graphic images of Ryan Shazier’s rehabilitation regimen to know he’s still paralyzed. I do like seeing that despite his horrific injury, he’s still in high spirits...that will be key for whatever recovery he can have.

A bigger story would be the lip service they are paying to head trauma safety and the like as opposed to actually doing something about it.

To focus on this was dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:47 am 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
LakecrestSteeler wrote:
This article is such a waste of words. There are way more important things to be concerned about than Ryan Shazier getting paralyzed doing something he loved and I love to watch.

Write an article about:
opioids and big Pharma
Obesity and reduced physical activities in schools
How are cigarettes still a thing?
Eating wings and drinking beer
Binge drinking
Uninsured gun owners
Gun manufacturers dumping guns in the US with no threat of lawsuits
Legalized MJ - does it create burn outs?

Let’s write a clickbait article at playoff time about an accident that happens once every 10 years. The guy isn’t even dead or permanently paralyzed that we know of.

Priorities America; Priorities.


None of those things directly involve sports. He's a sports writer.

If we go by your idea of priorities, writing or talking about football at all is a waste of time.


He's more of a social/political commentator that uses sports to push his views. Kind of like a Bob Costas with down syndrome.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:00 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Gun manufacturers dumping guns in the US with no threat of lawsuits


Ummm by that logic people would be able to sue alcohol manufacturers for DUI deaths. Doesn’t happen. And holding a company liable for the actions of an individual is a huge slippery slope.

What about car companies? Anybody sue a car company after some scumbag drives said car through a crowd of people?

Let’s just agree your comment was silly and not well thought out.

Best thing about this thread are the photos of the smile on Shaziers face.

That right there is a grounded and quality individual. I hope he plays again. If he doesn’t though, he most definitely will find success doing something else in life.

Same could not be said about a lot of pros if something similiar happened to them. The injury would become their crutch...


Let’s agree that your reply was not well thought out. Companies have been sued many many times including car companies for unsafe mechanisms and for being used in unintended ways.

Ever hear of a toy company getting sued because parts are too small and can get swallowed? I am sure they didn’t intend for the 3 year old to be biting the head off a Star Wars Happy Meal toy. Product getting used in unattended ways and there have been lawsuits of this variety.

Substitute mentally unstable person for infants. Substitute guns for toys. And tell me manufacturing insane amounts with no regard for how they would be used or distributed in the midst of certain segments of the population and geography, and it sounds to me like a very similar case but with more deaths in the books. No law suits only because of laws protecting gun manufacturers is my understanding.

Wings and beer consumption causes more deaths and health issues than football if it was studied in depth was my point.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:18 pm 
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My take on the whole thing is that the Steelers are required to provide a player's status and that's it... And with him on the IR they don't even have to do that. Shazier's health and progress at this point is a private matter and how much he shares is completely up to him. I'd love to get more frequent updates as he was rapidly becoming one of my favorite active players, but it's just none of my business and I respect that.

This is completely unfounded, but I have a sneaking suspicion he's a little better than the pictures show and that the wheelchair is precautionary to ensure the spine is completely stabilized. When he does decide to update us fully on his progress, I think we'll all be very happy for him and his prognosis (football be damned).


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:25 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
Gun manufacturers dumping guns in the US with no threat of lawsuits


Ummm by that logic people would be able to sue alcohol manufacturers for DUI deaths. Doesn’t happen. And holding a company liable for the actions of an individual is a huge slippery slope.

What about car companies? Anybody sue a car company after some scumbag drives said car through a crowd of people?

Let’s just agree your comment was silly and not well thought out.

Best thing about this thread are the photos of the smile on Shaziers face.

That right there is a grounded and quality individual. I hope he plays again. If he doesn’t though, he most definitely will find success doing something else in life.

Same could not be said about a lot of pros if something similiar happened to them. The injury would become their crutch...


Let’s agree that your reply was not well thought out. Companies have been sued many many times including car companies for unsafe mechanisms and for being used in unintended ways.

Ever hear of a toy company getting sued because parts are too small and can get swallowed? I am sure they didn’t intend for the 3 year old to be biting the head off a Star Wars Happy Meal toy. Product getting used in unattended ways and there have been lawsuits of this variety.

Substitute mentally unstable person for infants. Substitute guns for toys. And tell me manufacturing insane amounts with no regard for how they would be used or distributed in the midst of certain segments of the population and geography, and it sounds to me like a very similar case but with more deaths in the books. No law suits only because of laws protecting gun manufacturers is my understanding.

Wings and beer consumption causes more deaths and health issues than football if it was studied in depth was my point.


The tort cases you allude to involve a product defect (in design) with strict liability. In cases where someone is using a gun, there is no product defect (i.e., the gun functions the way it is meant to function). It just so happens that the person using it decides to harm another party.

Under the argument you proffer, if I use my computer to bash someone, Apple can be sued by that someone. Clearly, that shouldn't be the case; there wasn't a defect (latent or otherwise) in Apple's computer that led to the harm. Now, if the gun randomly fired without someone attempting to use it in the manner prescribed, then sure your fact pattern makes sense and product liability would apply. Just in the same way if an Apple computer randomly blew up causing damage.

You can't just say: Product X caused harm Y to Z, therefore Z has a valid cause of action against the manufacturer of X. There needs to be some kind of product defect; otherwise, no company could stay in existence.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Ever seen Venetian blinds with the annoying stickers to prevent kids from hanging themselves? No design flaw.

What about IKEA and the tipping dressers?

Lawn darts...remember those?

Three wheeled ATVs...remember those?

Those weren’t design flaws.

The argument is not whether it would work to curb gun violence, the argument is if said manufacturers deserve to be quarantined from the court system, which has in the past demonstrated both adeptness and folly to protect the public from products, manufacturing and manufacturers.

....and much more interesting than banning the NFL.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncomfortable Shazier article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Hoping this brightens the thread up...

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What do you think the sticker says on Cowher’s jacket?

Always makes me laugh when security procedures snag the “obviously he/she is allowed in” individuals.


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