It is currently Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:48 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:17 pm
Posts: 1123
Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Excellent exercise that is useless in the realm of circular arguments aka the message board. The fly in the ointment to this is what constitutes "good or elite" coach is matter of opinion or "opinionated criteria" from people who observe football from the fans telescope. Of which I and all of you are guilty of. For example, what would constitute a good coach in Cleveland, as opposed to Pittsburgh, is a matter of a fan's opinion.

The Browns, in retrospect, look back fondly on Marty Ball. As that represents their modern Golden Era. However, from a Steeler fan perspective, a Marty Ball disciple cost us at least 3 SBs appearances. Does that make Cowher a more elite coach than MS, because he eventually won a SB? That's debatable because he was the HC only in one spot- with a couple elite GMs who kept the cabinet stocked with talent. Marty got teams off the schnide in at least 3 locations and into the playoffs and that is a thankless job if you don't win the SB. I think that Andy Reid falls into that same category and if you are a team like Detriot or the aforementioned Cleveland you at least want someone who can give you something to cheer for- A Steeler fan isn't having that. Tomlin can't even have a padded practice without fans calling for his head just because someone got hurt. If we didn't have a padded practice and got run on like we did last time- the people will talk about rust. All while going 13-3. :lol: :lol:

I guess this was a long way of saying that the expectations of individual fan bases plays far too much into what is good elite or GOAT in coaching and that exercise in the hands of the highly "agendized" could be used to infuriate those who need impartial criteria to make a 10 ten list, in season team rankings, or coaching hierarchies

_________________
No matter what anyone says, no matter the excuse or explanation, whatever a person does, in the end, is what he intended to do all along- Cus D'Amato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:54 pm
Posts: 2221
Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Your premise is wrong. Bad / mediocre coaches have won historically.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:46 pm
Posts: 392
smithessmokin wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

This. I don't know if any the New England Patriots stuff is true, but if that the case the only other team I fear is the Jaguars. If they get a competent QB, the sky is the limit for that team. They Yanncik Ngakoue who was a draft favorite of mine and he's been killing it there.


Here's what no one has been able to explain or justify - why trade a talent like Jimmy G when the 40 year old TB12 could break in half any day? That article gave a plausible explanation why that happened. I believe there's a ton of truth to the article. But I also believe the patriots organization has 2 leaders (Brady & BB) who are so competitive, they can ignore a house burning down around them.

The Saints offense is not one that I want to face in the playoffs.They are similar to the Steelers in how they can win games winning or passing. Steelers tackling issues could be exposed badly by Alvin Kamara. I think the Falcons would be the better matchup for the Steelers.

_________________
Amateur photographer who's still learning - see my Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/people/fotosbyfree/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:19 am
Posts: 9667
Zeke5123 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
[Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Your premise is wrong. Bad / mediocre coaches have won historically.


ok, but I think I get a Todd Haley TD for validity.

I think the major premise is B2B's possibly. I was trying to put Pabst's position into a valid syllogism as a joke (since he mentioned an invalid argument).

I do not think having BOTH an elite coach AND an elite QB is a necessary condition for winning. Jags are doing alright.

I do think that shoving anything and everyong into a syllogism is great fun.

_________________
TB wrote:
Breaking news: Tom Brady is also better than Ben Roethlisberger. Jerry Rice is better than Antonio Brown. Your mom is a bigger slut than my mom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:54 pm
Posts: 2221
Haha fair enough. It is a valid incorrect argument.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7598
See I always thought the way to judge coaches is by their accomplishments or lack thereof. How else do you judge a coach?

Reid's been to a super bowl and a number of conference championship games, and he's almost always in the playoffs. I'd say that's pretty good.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 16284
Poltargyst wrote:
See I always thought the way to judge coaches is by their accomplishments or lack thereof. How else do you judge a coach?

Reid's been to a super bowl and a number of conference championship games, and he's almost always in the playoffs. I'd say that's pretty good.

One could argue that the only thing standing between Andy Reid and a real SB contender is lack of a quality QB... and, voila!

_________________
Suwanee88 wrote:
But it’s your fault that you are kind of a stubborn jagoff that would argue with a fence post


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:48 am
Posts: 901
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
See I always thought the way to judge coaches is by their accomplishments or lack thereof. How else do you judge a coach?

Reid's been to a super bowl and a number of conference championship games, and he's almost always in the playoffs. I'd say that's pretty good.

One could argue that the only thing standing between Andy Reid and a real SB contender is lack of a quality QB... and, voila!


Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11317
Miter Saw wrote:
Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


Very true. Cowher was 1-1 in the SB with mediocre QB's. Actually historically great.

Tomlin is 1-1 with a 1st ballot HOFer at QB. Historically average, at best.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:52 pm
Posts: 7291
Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23263
Kodiak wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


Very true. Cowher was 1-1 in the SB with mediocre QB's. Actually historically great.

Tomlin is 1-1 with a 1st ballot HOFer at QB. Historically average, at best.


Nice selective use of data there.

If you’re going to say Ben was mediocre in Super Bowl XL (he was), you can’t then claim he was a HoF’er in Super Bowl XLV because he played pretty average in that game as well.

Hell...until the last drive in Super Bowl XLIII, he was pretty pedestrian as well.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:19 am
Posts: 9667
swissvale72 wrote:
The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.


Really, Swiss, when are you going to return to your former good humor? So bitter! It's just a bit of syllogistic. All in good fun.

_________________
TB wrote:
Breaking news: Tom Brady is also better than Ben Roethlisberger. Jerry Rice is better than Antonio Brown. Your mom is a bigger slut than my mom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 1040
Kodiak wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


Very true. Cowher was 1-1 in the SB with mediocre QB's. Actually historically great.

Tomlin is 1-1 with a 1st ballot HOFer at QB. Historically average, at best.


Is there a Cowher SB win I'm missing with a mediocre QB? I don't think Cowher can get credit for a SB win with a mediocre QB and Tomlin get dinged because that same QB is now a 1st ballot HOFer. That logic doesn't hold water.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11317
randomsteelerfan wrote:
Is there a Cowher SB win I'm missing with a mediocre QB? I don't think Cowher can get credit for a SB win with a mediocre QB and Tomlin get dinged because that same QB is now a 1st ballot HOFer. That logic doesn't hold water.


So you think the youngest QB ever to win a SB was remotely the same/equal to what he was 4-6 years later in his next SB appearances? THAT is what's not logical.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7598
swissvale72 wrote:
The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.

But can you make this into a syllogism?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7598
Quote:
You may embed only 3 quotes within each other.

:evil: :evil: :evil:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:19 am
Posts: 9667
Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.

But can you make this into a syllogism?


That's what I'm saying!

_________________
TB wrote:
Breaking news: Tom Brady is also better than Ben Roethlisberger. Jerry Rice is better than Antonio Brown. Your mom is a bigger slut than my mom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 1040
Kodiak wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
Is there a Cowher SB win I'm missing with a mediocre QB? I don't think Cowher can get credit for a SB win with a mediocre QB and Tomlin get dinged because that same QB is now a 1st ballot HOFer. That logic doesn't hold water.


So you think the youngest QB ever to win a SB was remotely the same/equal to what he was 4-6 years later in his next SB appearances? THAT is what's not logical.


You think he played like the 2nd youngest QB in the lead up to SB 40? He may have shit the bed in the SB, but Cowher sure as shit benefited from pretty good QB play to get there. Don't make it sound like Tomlin benefited from better QB play than Cowher did.

Do you disagree?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:52 pm
Posts: 7291
Still Lit wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.


Really, Swiss, when are you going to return to your former good humor? So bitter! It's just a bit of syllogistic. All in good fun.


I guess a treatise is on its way, Professor, advancing an argument equating legitimately being called out as full of shit, with bitterness??

Humor's fine, Professor; you're full-of-shitness is kind of funny.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:19 am
Posts: 9667
swissvale72 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.


Really, Swiss, when are you going to return to your former good humor? So bitter! It's just a bit of syllogistic. All in good fun.


I guess a treatise is on its way, Professor, advancing an argument equating legitimately being called out as full of shit, with bitterness??

Humor's fine, Professor; you're full-of-shitness is kind of funny.


Legitimate? Didn't see a refutation in your post. Hell, not even an argument. You have a queer way of exhibiting good humor!

:D

I'll keep the categorical syllogisms in the quiver for now, even though a particularly sharp Barbara AAA-1 syllogism does come to mind.

_________________
TB wrote:
Breaking news: Tom Brady is also better than Ben Roethlisberger. Jerry Rice is better than Antonio Brown. Your mom is a bigger slut than my mom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11317
randomsteelerfan wrote:
You think he played like the 2nd youngest QB in the lead up to SB 40? He may have shit the bed in the SB, but Cowher sure as shit benefited from pretty good QB play to get there.


So you're saying Cowher gets no credit for a 2nd year QB playing that well, but rather benefited??? Not to mention Mr. Conservative Turtle broke with season form and had the "game manager" attacking early and often in those games.

Again, 2nd year Ben isn't remotely on the same level as the Ben the potted plant has had his entire tenure.

Let it go. Tomlin has maybe 1 or 2 cracks to prove me wrong. But I imagine, to a man, if this board knew back in 2007 that Tomlin would be just 1-1 in the SB in 12 years with Ben EVERY person would have said get a different HC.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7598
Kodiak wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
You think he played like the 2nd youngest QB in the lead up to SB 40? He may have shit the bed in the SB, but Cowher sure as shit benefited from pretty good QB play to get there.


So you're saying Cowher gets no credit for a 2nd year QB playing that well, but rather benefited??? Not to mention Mr. Conservative Turtle broke with season form and had the "game manager" attacking early and often in those games.

Again, 2nd year Ben isn't remotely on the same level as the Ben the potted plant has had his entire tenure.

Let it go. Tomlin has maybe 1 or 2 cracks to prove me wrong. But I imagine, to a man, if this board knew back in 2007 that Tomlin would be just 1-1 in the SB in 12 years with Ben EVERY person would have said get a different HC.

How many super bowl appearances were you expecting and what years should they have come in?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:48 am
Posts: 901
Bruce Arians as good a prognosticator as he is protecting qb's


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23263
I see Bruce makes predictions as well as he keeps QBs upright...

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 8883
Cousin Brucie should stick to Kangol hats.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], VanWilder and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group