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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am 
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stillenigma wrote:
Don't forget the Colts with Luck healthy. If they draft a few key pieces on D, they will contend.


The Colt's talent level is below that of the Browns. They have nothing at RB, CB, LB or Dline. Their oline is horrible. On top of that they are paying their franchise QB so it cuts down on the FA sending they might be able to do. Luck MAY give them 6 wins in a season I predict they will be at the bottom of the AFC south for several years.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:59 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
smithessmokin wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

This. I don't know if any the New England Patriots stuff is true, but if that the case the only other team I fear is the Jaguars. If they get a competent QB, the sky is the limit for that team. They Yanncik Ngakoue who was a draft favorite of mine and he's been killing it there.

A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:34 am 
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stillenigma wrote:
Don't forget the Colts with Luck healthy. If they draft a few key pieces on D, they will contend.

They have the worst roster in the NFL and Luck is terminally overrated and coming off of a potentially career-ending injury to his throwing wing. So... not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:35 am 
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Pabst wrote:
Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.

Hey, Ben made Cowher a pretty good coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:07 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Hey, Ben made Cowher a pretty good coach.

True, but Reid has already choked in the playoffs multiple times with an elite QB

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Hey, Ben made Cowher a pretty good coach.

True, but Reid has already choked in the playoffs multiple times with an elite QB

Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith are elite QBs? Really?

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:50 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith are elite QBs? Really?

Smith? No

McNabb was a damn good QB. He'll never be a hall of famer, but that's a high bar to clear. My question is whether McNabb or Andy Reid was the real playoff choker - given the last few seasons, my money is on Reid.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith are elite QBs? Really?

Smith? No

McNabb was a damn good QB. He'll never be a hall of famer, but that's a high bar to clear. My question is whether McNabb or Andy Reid was the real playoff choker - given the last few seasons, my money is on Reid.

Tough call. Universe-imploding, mirror-into-mirror infinity type deep question.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Excellent exercise that is useless in the realm of circular arguments aka the message board. The fly in the ointment to this is what constitutes "good or elite" coach is matter of opinion or "opinionated criteria" from people who observe football from the fans telescope. Of which I and all of you are guilty of. For example, what would constitute a good coach in Cleveland, as opposed to Pittsburgh, is a matter of a fan's opinion.

The Browns, in retrospect, look back fondly on Marty Ball. As that represents their modern Golden Era. However, from a Steeler fan perspective, a Marty Ball disciple cost us at least 3 SBs appearances. Does that make Cowher a more elite coach than MS, because he eventually won a SB? That's debatable because he was the HC only in one spot- with a couple elite GMs who kept the cabinet stocked with talent. Marty got teams off the schnide in at least 3 locations and into the playoffs and that is a thankless job if you don't win the SB. I think that Andy Reid falls into that same category and if you are a team like Detriot or the aforementioned Cleveland you at least want someone who can give you something to cheer for- A Steeler fan isn't having that. Tomlin can't even have a padded practice without fans calling for his head just because someone got hurt. If we didn't have a padded practice and got run on like we did last time- the people will talk about rust. All while going 13-3. :lol: :lol:

I guess this was a long way of saying that the expectations of individual fan bases plays far too much into what is good elite or GOAT in coaching and that exercise in the hands of the highly "agendized" could be used to infuriate those who need impartial criteria to make a 10 ten list, in season team rankings, or coaching hierarchies

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Your premise is wrong. Bad / mediocre coaches have won historically.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:41 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

This. I don't know if any the New England Patriots stuff is true, but if that the case the only other team I fear is the Jaguars. If they get a competent QB, the sky is the limit for that team. They Yanncik Ngakoue who was a draft favorite of mine and he's been killing it there.


Here's what no one has been able to explain or justify - why trade a talent like Jimmy G when the 40 year old TB12 could break in half any day? That article gave a plausible explanation why that happened. I believe there's a ton of truth to the article. But I also believe the patriots organization has 2 leaders (Brady & BB) who are so competitive, they can ignore a house burning down around them.

The Saints offense is not one that I want to face in the playoffs.They are similar to the Steelers in how they can win games winning or passing. Steelers tackling issues could be exposed badly by Alvin Kamara. I think the Falcons would be the better matchup for the Steelers.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
[Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Your premise is wrong. Bad / mediocre coaches have won historically.


ok, but I think I get a Todd Haley TD for validity.

I think the major premise is B2B's possibly. I was trying to put Pabst's position into a valid syllogism as a joke (since he mentioned an invalid argument).

I do not think having BOTH an elite coach AND an elite QB is a necessary condition for winning. Jags are doing alright.

I do think that shoving anything and everyong into a syllogism is great fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Haha fair enough. It is a valid incorrect argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:53 pm 
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See I always thought the way to judge coaches is by their accomplishments or lack thereof. How else do you judge a coach?

Reid's been to a super bowl and a number of conference championship games, and he's almost always in the playoffs. I'd say that's pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:19 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
See I always thought the way to judge coaches is by their accomplishments or lack thereof. How else do you judge a coach?

Reid's been to a super bowl and a number of conference championship games, and he's almost always in the playoffs. I'd say that's pretty good.

One could argue that the only thing standing between Andy Reid and a real SB contender is lack of a quality QB... and, voila!

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:36 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
See I always thought the way to judge coaches is by their accomplishments or lack thereof. How else do you judge a coach?

Reid's been to a super bowl and a number of conference championship games, and he's almost always in the playoffs. I'd say that's pretty good.

One could argue that the only thing standing between Andy Reid and a real SB contender is lack of a quality QB... and, voila!


Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:35 am 
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Miter Saw wrote:
Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


Very true. Cowher was 1-1 in the SB with mediocre QB's. Actually historically great.

Tomlin is 1-1 with a 1st ballot HOFer at QB. Historically average, at best.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:00 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


Very true. Cowher was 1-1 in the SB with mediocre QB's. Actually historically great.

Tomlin is 1-1 with a 1st ballot HOFer at QB. Historically average, at best.


Nice selective use of data there.

If you’re going to say Ben was mediocre in Super Bowl XL (he was), you can’t then claim he was a HoF’er in Super Bowl XLV because he played pretty average in that game as well.

Hell...until the last drive in Super Bowl XLIII, he was pretty pedestrian as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:43 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.


Really, Swiss, when are you going to return to your former good humor? So bitter! It's just a bit of syllogistic. All in good fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Worked for Cowher. He was every bit the playoff underachiever Reid is, until Ben came along.


Very true. Cowher was 1-1 in the SB with mediocre QB's. Actually historically great.

Tomlin is 1-1 with a 1st ballot HOFer at QB. Historically average, at best.


Is there a Cowher SB win I'm missing with a mediocre QB? I don't think Cowher can get credit for a SB win with a mediocre QB and Tomlin get dinged because that same QB is now a 1st ballot HOFer. That logic doesn't hold water.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:45 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Is there a Cowher SB win I'm missing with a mediocre QB? I don't think Cowher can get credit for a SB win with a mediocre QB and Tomlin get dinged because that same QB is now a 1st ballot HOFer. That logic doesn't hold water.


So you think the youngest QB ever to win a SB was remotely the same/equal to what he was 4-6 years later in his next SB appearances? THAT is what's not logical.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
The only major premise that is indisputable is how hopelessly full of shit you are, and continue to be.

But can you make this into a syllogism?

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