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 Post subject: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:19 pm 
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[quoteBy Dave Bryan January 9, 2018 at 05:20 pm
Bruce Arians recently retired from the Arizona Cardinals and on Tuesday he was a guest on The Rich Eisen Show and talked about several subjects. One of those subjects Arians talked about was Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and whether or not he thinks he’ll ultimately be back in 2018.
“I do,” Arians told Rich Eisen. “I think a lot of things have to fall in place for him to come back. If he wins it all I think he’ll try to do it again. I think the coaching staff has a big part in that, you know, if they can keep everybody together.”
Arians, who was once the Steelers offensive coordinator from 2007–2011, is still reportedly close friends with Roethlisberger so he might already be privy to a few thoughts the Steelers quarterback has potentially already had as it relates to him possibly returning next season.
Back to reality for a second, it’s really hard to imagine that Roethlisberger would really walk away from the Steelers should he lose either this coming weekend against the Jacksonville Jaguars, or possibly even to the New England Patriots in the AFC Championship game a week from this coming Sunday. He’s had a great season and showed that he’s far from being done.
Potential retirement talk aside, Arians thinks the Steelers and Roethlisberger can ultimately make to this season’s AFC Championship game and even beat the Patriots this time around should that ultimately wind up being the match up.

“Home field advantage is almost out the window any more, except for New England,” Arians told Eisen. “And I think Pittsburgh can go up there and win. They’re going to have to play really well.”
Arians said he believes that the Steelers have the better football team between them and the Patriots as long as they have Roethlisberger, wide receiver Antonio Brown and running back Le’Veon Bell all healthy.
“I really think with Pittsburgh healthy, with all three guys, not having Le’Veon last year really changed that [AFC Championship] game,” Arians said.
When put on the spot by Eisen, Arians said he predicts this years Super Bowl combatants to be the Steelers and the Atlanta Falcons. Surprisingly, he went to say that he thinks the Falcons would win such a Super Bowl matchup.
“No, I think they win,” Arians said of the Falcons.][/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:42 pm 
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I think Ben would love to have 4 rings, but he REALLY wants a 3rd. He made a comment a few weeks ago about wanting to get a ring for the OL and other guys who don't have one.


PLUS he's got $29.4M other reasons to play next year. He's played well and has a good team, and particularly a good offense, around him. I'd say he's almost definitely back next year, but 2019 might be sketchy.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Hey, he wears #7 because of John Elway. What better way to honor your idol than to end your career in the same fashion :D

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:00 pm 
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And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:33 pm 
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I don't like looking ahead. I will say that if the Steelers get through the Jags and Pats (presumably). Atlanta would be the best offense this defense has played. The good news on that front is they are going to have to play in the elements against a team that will force Ryan's hand on every passing play. IMO they are the best PA team in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:08 pm 
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VeritasSteel wrote:
I don't like looking ahead. I will say that if the Steelers get through the Jags and Pats (presumably). Atlanta would be the best offense this defense has played. The good news on that front is they are going to have to play in the elements against a team that will force Ryan's hand on every passing play. IMO they are the best PA team in the league.


What do you mean...in the elements?

Minnesota has a domed stadium.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
VeritasSteel wrote:
I don't like looking ahead. I will say that if the Steelers get through the Jags and Pats (presumably). Atlanta would be the best offense this defense has played. The good news on that front is they are going to have to play in the elements against a team that will force Ryan's hand on every passing play. IMO they are the best PA team in the league.


What do you mean...in the elements?

Minnesota has a domed stadium.

I think he's referring to ATL having to play/win in Philly first.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

This. I don't know if any the New England Patriots stuff is true, but if that the case the only other team I fear is the Jaguars. If they get a competent QB, the sky is the limit for that team. They Yanncik Ngakoue who was a draft favorite of mine and he's been killing it there.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:04 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

This. I don't know if any the New England Patriots stuff is true, but if that the case the only other team I fear is the Jaguars. If they get a competent QB, the sky is the limit for that team. They Yanncik Ngakoue who was a draft favorite of mine and he's been killing it there.

A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:51 am 
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Don't forget the Colts with Luck healthy. If they draft a few key pieces on D, they will contend.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am 
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stillenigma wrote:
Don't forget the Colts with Luck healthy. If they draft a few key pieces on D, they will contend.


The Colt's talent level is below that of the Browns. They have nothing at RB, CB, LB or Dline. Their oline is horrible. On top of that they are paying their franchise QB so it cuts down on the FA sending they might be able to do. Luck MAY give them 6 wins in a season I predict they will be at the bottom of the AFC south for several years.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:59 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
smithessmokin wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

This. I don't know if any the New England Patriots stuff is true, but if that the case the only other team I fear is the Jaguars. If they get a competent QB, the sky is the limit for that team. They Yanncik Ngakoue who was a draft favorite of mine and he's been killing it there.

A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:34 am 
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stillenigma wrote:
Don't forget the Colts with Luck healthy. If they draft a few key pieces on D, they will contend.

They have the worst roster in the NFL and Luck is terminally overrated and coming off of a potentially career-ending injury to his throwing wing. So... not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:35 am 
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Pabst wrote:
Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.

Hey, Ben made Cowher a pretty good coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:07 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Hey, Ben made Cowher a pretty good coach.

True, but Reid has already choked in the playoffs multiple times with an elite QB

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Hey, Ben made Cowher a pretty good coach.

True, but Reid has already choked in the playoffs multiple times with an elite QB

Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith are elite QBs? Really?

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:50 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith are elite QBs? Really?

Smith? No

McNabb was a damn good QB. He'll never be a hall of famer, but that's a high bar to clear. My question is whether McNabb or Andy Reid was the real playoff choker - given the last few seasons, my money is on Reid.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donovan McNabb and Alex Smith are elite QBs? Really?

Smith? No

McNabb was a damn good QB. He'll never be a hall of famer, but that's a high bar to clear. My question is whether McNabb or Andy Reid was the real playoff choker - given the last few seasons, my money is on Reid.

Tough call. Universe-imploding, mirror-into-mirror infinity type deep question.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Excellent exercise that is useless in the realm of circular arguments aka the message board. The fly in the ointment to this is what constitutes "good or elite" coach is matter of opinion or "opinionated criteria" from people who observe football from the fans telescope. Of which I and all of you are guilty of. For example, what would constitute a good coach in Cleveland, as opposed to Pittsburgh, is a matter of a fan's opinion.

The Browns, in retrospect, look back fondly on Marty Ball. As that represents their modern Golden Era. However, from a Steeler fan perspective, a Marty Ball disciple cost us at least 3 SBs appearances. Does that make Cowher a more elite coach than MS, because he eventually won a SB? That's debatable because he was the HC only in one spot- with a couple elite GMs who kept the cabinet stocked with talent. Marty got teams off the schnide in at least 3 locations and into the playoffs and that is a thankless job if you don't win the SB. I think that Andy Reid falls into that same category and if you are a team like Detriot or the aforementioned Cleveland you at least want someone who can give you something to cheer for- A Steeler fan isn't having that. Tomlin can't even have a padded practice without fans calling for his head just because someone got hurt. If we didn't have a padded practice and got run on like we did last time- the people will talk about rust. All while going 13-3. :lol: :lol:

I guess this was a long way of saying that the expectations of individual fan bases plays far too much into what is good elite or GOAT in coaching and that exercise in the hands of the highly "agendized" could be used to infuriate those who need impartial criteria to make a 10 ten list, in season team rankings, or coaching hierarchies

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team should be pretty good.

Andy Reid. Your argument is invalid.


Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Your premise is wrong. Bad / mediocre coaches have won historically.


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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:41 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
And the AFC is such a hot mess, even NE could implode next year with Brady a year older and who knows what Belicheat does.

PIT could be a huge favorite next year to go to the SB. No one else in the AFC, aside from maybe NE, has a QB.

This. I don't know if any the New England Patriots stuff is true, but if that the case the only other team I fear is the Jaguars. If they get a competent QB, the sky is the limit for that team. They Yanncik Ngakoue who was a draft favorite of mine and he's been killing it there.


Here's what no one has been able to explain or justify - why trade a talent like Jimmy G when the 40 year old TB12 could break in half any day? That article gave a plausible explanation why that happened. I believe there's a ton of truth to the article. But I also believe the patriots organization has 2 leaders (Brady & BB) who are so competitive, they can ignore a house burning down around them.

The Saints offense is not one that I want to face in the playoffs.They are similar to the Steelers in how they can win games winning or passing. Steelers tackling issues could be exposed badly by Alvin Kamara. I think the Falcons would be the better matchup for the Steelers.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
[Allow me to assist via a valid baroco syllogism (AOO-2). This is for you, Swiss!

What it is to prove: That a Pat Mahomes-led Chiefs team cannot be pretty good.

All P are (belong to the class) M.
S is not (does not belong to the class) M.
Therefore, S is not (does not belong to the class) P.

Major Premise: All pretty good teams (P) must have both elite QBs and elite coaches (M).
Minor Premise: The Chiefs (S) do not have an elite coach (M).
Conclusion: Therefore, the Chiefs (S [via Andy Reid]) cannot be pretty good (P).

I do not think anyone disputes the truth of the major premise (thus, nor the middle terms of the syllogism). Well, maybe we should if we're going to go with "pretty good."
I don't know about accepting the minor premise.


Your premise is wrong. Bad / mediocre coaches have won historically.


ok, but I think I get a Todd Haley TD for validity.

I think the major premise is B2B's possibly. I was trying to put Pabst's position into a valid syllogism as a joke (since he mentioned an invalid argument).

I do not think having BOTH an elite coach AND an elite QB is a necessary condition for winning. Jags are doing alright.

I do think that shoving anything and everyong into a syllogism is great fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Arians predicts Steelers vs Falcons SB
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Haha fair enough. It is a valid incorrect argument.


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