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 Post subject: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Not too shabby company hes keeping and breaking with this record. Cha---ching $$$$

I say we tag him again.

Quote:

Dom Rinelli‏
@drinelli

#Steelers RB @L_Bell26 has 7,609 scrimmage yds in his 1st 59 reg-season games

With 28 yds on Sunday, he will set an NFL record for the most by any player in their 1st 60 gms

Eric Dickerson 7,636
Le'Veon Bell 7,609
Edgerrin James 7,563
LaDanian Tomlinson 7,489
Marcus Allen 7,409


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:14 am 
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He's definitely getting tagged again, because:

1. They will never agree on price
2. He is too important to our offense

But who knows -- Maybe the 2 sides will come together next year -- Steelers increase the price, and he drops his demands a little.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:45 am 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Not too shabby company hes keeping and breaking with this record. Cha---ching $$$$

I say we tag him again.

Quote:

Dom Rinelli‏
@drinelli

#Steelers RB @L_Bell26 has 7,609 scrimmage yds in his 1st 59 reg-season games

With 28 yds on Sunday, he will set an NFL record for the most by any player in their 1st 60 gms

Eric Dickerson 7,636
Le'Veon Bell 7,609
Edgerrin James 7,563
LaDanian Tomlinson 7,489
Marcus Allen 7,409

u know what just amazing to me on this stat? those guys in list were faster and better at long runs and break aways to rack up huge chunks. bell not so much.. yet bell surpasses them with his 10-20 yarders accumulating. now I have not studied the stats but that's my fan assessment.. remarkable ; I never would of thought..


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:42 am 
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bam morris wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Not too shabby company hes keeping and breaking with this record. Cha---ching $$$$

I say we tag him again.

Quote:

Dom Rinelli‏
@drinelli

#Steelers RB @L_Bell26 has 7,609 scrimmage yds in his 1st 59 reg-season games

With 28 yds on Sunday, he will set an NFL record for the most by any player in their 1st 60 gms

Eric Dickerson 7,636
Le'Veon Bell 7,609
Edgerrin James 7,563
LaDanian Tomlinson 7,489
Marcus Allen 7,409

u know what just amazing to me on this stat? those guys in list were faster and better at long runs and break aways to rack up huge chunks. bell not so much.. yet bell surpasses them with his 10-20 yarders accumulating. now I have not studied the stats but that's my fan assessment.. remarkable ; I never would of thought..


It is his receiving numbers that are pushing him almost any catch he makes is for 10 yards as opposed to a good run being 5 or 6. Quicker chunks of field in the passing game.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:16 am 
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stillthere wrote:
It is his receiving numbers that are pushing him almost any catch he makes is for 10 yards as opposed to a good run being 5 or 6. Quicker chunks of field in the passing game.


Take away Willie Parker's long runs....

Bell has made like 3 big plays this year.....He does everything well, but he's arguably not a top-5 back....

EXCEPT he makes the plays you really need him to. And he's consistent. I want big plays from my receivers. I want my RB to move the chains.

It will be tough to tag him again, because that's probably 2X what he's worth. But I don't see where they have a choice

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:52 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
stillthere wrote:
It is his receiving numbers that are pushing him almost any catch he makes is for 10 yards as opposed to a good run being 5 or 6. Quicker chunks of field in the passing game.


Take away Willie Parker's long runs....

Bell has made like 3 big plays this year.....He does everything well, but he's arguably not a top-5 back....

EXCEPT he makes the plays you really need him to. And he's consistent. I want big plays from my receivers. I want my RB to move the chains.

It will be tough to tag him again, because that's probably 2X what he's worth. But I don't see where they have a choice


No offense but this post is insane.

2x what he's worth? Not a top 5 rb?

Do you watch the games?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:38 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
stillthere wrote:
It is his receiving numbers that are pushing him almost any catch he makes is for 10 yards as opposed to a good run being 5 or 6. Quicker chunks of field in the passing game.


Take away Willie Parker's long runs....

Bell has made like 3 big plays this year.....He does everything well, but he's arguably not a top-5 back....

EXCEPT he makes the plays you really need him to. And he's consistent. I want big plays from my receivers. I want my RB to move the chains.

It will be tough to tag him again, because that's probably 2X what he's worth. But I don't see where they have a choice


There aren't 5 other backs in the NFL better than Bell. I understand what you're saying in that he's not going to break off 60 yard TD scampers on the reg, but he'll make those 5-6 plays a game that at the end of the game were vital to a victory.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:58 am 
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I'm not sure how to judge this season's offense. It's like the other 31 teams have figured out what the Steelers offensive tendencies are. That and/or this is just the Steelers 'retarding' (No Pun) their offense with the mentality of squeaking by in the regular season. Only to explode in the postseason during their journey to a 7th Lombardi... :ugeek:

In my observations of this season I've watched this offense (what I consider) underachieve. Although I have no factual evidence other than my own eyes to substantiate what I write. We've all seen games where we agreed that Bell was under utilized for... name your reason. We've seen a not so graceful drop in Martavis' production in this offense. Be it mentality or rust no one but the immediate team can diagnose. The offensive line has fallen a bit into this underachieving category in my opinion as well. Seems like they were much more consistent and by default better last season. Of course suspension and injury has played a bigger role this season. Rogers has definitely regressed. Not that Rogers was a stud from the get go either. To me it seems like Rogers was more productive last season. Perhaps, there wasn't the pressure to perform at a higher level last season? That pressure is evident this season and in my opinion Rogers hasn't stepped up to the challenge. The FO goes and signs F/A Hunter. I'm thinking right away..., wow :twisted: ! This is going to make this offense unstoppable. Wrong :? Because, Hunter hasn't done anything productive that I can recall. Barely has seen the field and when Hunter was called upon to produce was disappointing to watch as he struggles to catch passes. The same can be stated about the F/A TE McDonald. Now injured and missing games to boot. Disappointing? An Understatement. To me the defense was the star of the show. Now that Shay is out indefinitely (Prayers for you and yours Shay) along with some other key disappointments I'm not even sure this defense will produce like they have in the first half of this season. A bit sceptical if you will. ST's is and seems will always be a quagmire so there's nothing new there. Perhaps some of this misfortune is an anticipated part of the process and the Steelers rise above it? Turning their misfortune into a very fortunate result? Rooting for them..., SBI.

About the record..., Congratulations to Mr. Bell. Keep on keep'n on brutha.


StillerInCT wrote:
There aren't 5 other backs in the NFL better than Bell. I understand what you're saying in that he's not going to break off 60 yard TD scampers on the reg, but he'll make those 5-6 plays a game that at the end of the game were vital to a victory.
I know it's still very early in his career so bare with me when I say, If Kamara didn't get injured recently I think he as a rookie would certainly be in the discussion for top 5 RB's. JMO


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:57 am 
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Rushing, Receiving and Blocking, the 3 tasks important to playing the position in the nfl....Bell stands alone as the best RB in the nfl imo. His last game vs cincy was 1 of his best ever, full package on display, rushing, reciving,blocking, being elusive, breaking some longish runs, and absolutely destroying bengals especially dre Kirkpatrick by lowering the boom on em.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:11 pm 
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:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:27 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
stillthere wrote:
It is his receiving numbers that are pushing him almost any catch he makes is for 10 yards as opposed to a good run being 5 or 6. Quicker chunks of field in the passing game.


Take away Willie Parker's long runs....

Bell has made like 3 big plays this year.....He does everything well, but he's arguably not a top-5 back....

EXCEPT he makes the plays you really need him to. And he's consistent. I want big plays from my receivers. I want my RB to move the chains.

It will be tough to tag him again, because that's probably 2X what he's worth. But I don't see where they have a choice


1. Bell is most fucking definitely a top 5 back
2. RIGHT NOW, Bell is worth 2X what we are paying him. If we tag him next year, which we almost certainly will, then he will be worth 2X what we will pay him next year too.

Taking Bell away from this offense right now would be almost as devastating as losing Ben.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
stillthere wrote:
It is his receiving numbers that are pushing him almost any catch he makes is for 10 yards as opposed to a good run being 5 or 6. Quicker chunks of field in the passing game.


Take away Willie Parker's long runs....

Bell has made like 3 big plays this year.....He does everything well, but he's arguably not a top-5 back....

EXCEPT he makes the plays you really need him to. And he's consistent. I want big plays from my receivers. I want my RB to move the chains.

It will be tough to tag him again, because that's probably 2X what he's worth. But I don't see where they have a choice


If Bell isn't a top 5 back then we must have the greatest offensive coaching staff ever to milk this kind of production out of him. I'm pretty sure no one believes that. Not even Todd Haley himself would believe that.

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Last edited by SteelPro on Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:48 pm 
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TB wrote:
:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

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Bell is no worse than top 3 RB in the NFL, and Ben is most definitely not only easily a pro bowler this year (LOL at Smith or even Rivers being better QBs right now in the AFC) and if you think there are 5 NFL QBs you would have taken last year to replace BR7 on the field (as opposed to in stats), I suggest you think through that and name names, because there's NFW, no matter how you wish to assess his 2016 season.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:03 pm 
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to wit: Ben had basically the same season last year as Rodgers did, in terms of their effectiveness situationally and especially when you consider that Ben has half injured in multiple games and actually missed two home games.

If you say Ben was only season average in those two games he missed, and even allowing that his injuries didn't affect him, here's his rankings compared to AR:

6th vs 8th in DYAR
9th vs 8th in DVOA
4th vs 4th in EYDS

Are you going to suggest that Aaron Rodgers wasn't a top 5 QB last year?

I'm a little biased, because I don't think there's a QB I'd rather have for this team other than BR, but if I try and take intangibles out of it (which is a silly thing to do for QB evaluations), in 2016, I'd take Brady and Rodgers and that's the end of the list. In 2017, I'd be hard -pressed to say any different. I think I'd actually take 2017 Ben over 2017 Rodgers.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:31 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
to wit: Ben had basically the same season last year as Rodgers did, in terms of their effectiveness situationally and especially when you consider that Ben has half injured in multiple games and actually missed two home games.

If you say Ben was only season average in those two games he missed, and even allowing that his injuries didn't affect him, here's his rankings compared to AR:

6th vs 8th in DYAR
9th vs 8th in DVOA
4th vs 4th in EYDS

Are you going to suggest that Aaron Rodgers wasn't a top 5 QB last year?

I'm a little biased, because I don't think there's a QB I'd rather have for this team other than BR, but if I try and take intangibles out of it (which is a silly thing to do for QB evaluations), in 2016, I'd take Brady and Rodgers and that's the end of the list. In 2017, I'd be hard -pressed to say any different. I think I'd actually take 2017 Ben over 2017 Rodgers.


I've got no problem with your honest bias and his play has improved, but come on:

Ben is not even the best QB in Pennsylvania.

Regarding the thread's topic, Ben homers bring down Bell because his greatness takes away from Ben. Ignoring Bell's NFL RECORD dominance is just thinly veiled insecurity about Ben's lack of dominance. Ben is still a great NFL franchise QB...but he's a tier below the top performing QBs at this stage in his career. Bell, on the other hand, is peerless. But noooooo....can't give a dog his due if he doesn't wear #7.

Ben has had ALL the time in the world to throw these last 2 seasons and has the two best weapons in the NFL hands down. Last year, we don't make it to the AFC Championship without riding Bell. And yet this is the BEST this offense can do? QBs are the leaders...they can't get the praise without the blame. This offense is still a mess. He ran the no-huddle in the first half against the Bengals and they still barely got 3 points.

Ben won it all with a #1 and a #4 defense. Without a great defense? Ben has also shown immaturity throughout his career and even this year, when his shitty play was questioned. You don't expect snark from a veteran. Eli showed CLASS when benched. The entire Giants nation past and present rallied around that class. Ben? Maybe I lost it blah blah.

He wanted to retire for fuck sakes!

Since Ben is still the greatest QB in the Cosmos, who really is at fault?:

1. Haley
2. Tomlin
3. Art
4. Goodell
5. the refs
6. the media
7. the Mayan apocalypse.

All sarcasm aside, Brady, Brees, Wentz, and (healthy) Rodgers put up 30+ a game with the same offense and they'd give us a stronger shot at a SB victory. 5 seconds to throw. Bell and Brown. What would they do with that? Those guys play at a different level than Ben. It's a big drop between them and him.

For one game or perhaps 3 in a row, Ben can still light it up. His play has improved and he's a weapon again. Frankly, I think he might become old Ben if he gets MORE pressure, not less. Sitting back on his ass with 5 seconds to throw and having Bell and Brown bail the offense out has made him lose focus. Against the Bengals, there was some of that old killer instinct. Maybe he needs a few hits to manufacture emotion. We'll see how he responds against the Ravens and the Patriots.

Back on topic. Bell is a generational talent. Anyone that casually dismisses Bell yet back Ben at all costs isn't a Steeler fan...they are a Ben fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:16 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm a little biased


Understatement of the century. :lol:

Philip Rivers has thrown for more yards, has a higher completion percentage, has a higher YPA, one less TD but 6 less INTs, significantly higher QBR... I know, ludicrous to suggest he's been better this year.

For the first half of the season, Ben was the definition of average. We won games because our defense gave up over 20 points once in the first half of the season, in the OT loss against the Bears where they gave up 23 whole points (not counting the Jags game where the D only gave up 17 points and the offense gave the Jags the other 13). Outside of the first half last Monday however, Ben has been great starting at the Tennessee game up to now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Bell played 12 games last year.
Played 12 regular season games this year.

2016 12 261 for 1268 4.9 avg -7 TD 75 rec. 618 8.2 - 2 TD
2017 12 270 for 1057 3.9 avg- 5 TD 66 rec. 502. 7.6 - 1 TD

Numbers down across the board over last year.

But like last year, he is coming on as the season wears on and his last two games have been huge.
365 total yards last two games.
They finally started getting him involved in passing game. 26 catches last three games. That's a 138 catch pace for 16 games.

His 2016 playoff run was unreal.

But.
We need to keep an eye on his workload. No Bell for the playoffs has not been very good for this team.
Would love to see Conner for more than the obligatory 2-3 carries a game.

That being said. If they do not work out a RB friendly deal. I franchise him for 2018.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:59 pm 
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As for Ben.
Tale of two halves in 2017.
Average to unspectacular first half.
7 TD 8 INT first six games.
One game with more than 265 yards passing.

Last 6 games...
16 TD 6 INT.
Four games over 265 yards passing.

Key has been to open up the passing games. More no huddle. More hurry up.
No brainer. Something most of us have been calling for.

What will make or break this season will be Ben in the playoffs.
He no doubt needs to play better come January than he has the last half decade plus.

5-5 record last 10 playoff games.
10 TD and 11 INT
Half those games with less than 230 yards passing.

I expect Ben to have a much better 2017 playoff run.
I hope they allow him to do what he has been doing the last few weeks.
Go Steelers.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Would love to see Conner for more than the obligatory 2-3 carries a game.


I also think it is important to have Conner in there for a few more snaps that he is not getting the ball. When we take out Bell and bring in Conner we end up giving the ball to Conner 95% of the time. I think other teams D coordinators may be able to see that trend. 50 percent run with Conner and 50 percent play action would keep teams honest at least.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:01 pm 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
to wit: Ben had basically the same season last year as Rodgers did, in terms of their effectiveness situationally and especially when you consider that Ben has half injured in multiple games and actually missed two home games.

If you say Ben was only season average in those two games he missed, and even allowing that his injuries didn't affect him, here's his rankings compared to AR:

6th vs 8th in DYAR
9th vs 8th in DVOA
4th vs 4th in EYDS

Are you going to suggest that Aaron Rodgers wasn't a top 5 QB last year?

I'm a little biased, because I don't think there's a QB I'd rather have for this team other than BR, but if I try and take intangibles out of it (which is a silly thing to do for QB evaluations), in 2016, I'd take Brady and Rodgers and that's the end of the list. In 2017, I'd be hard -pressed to say any different. I think I'd actually take 2017 Ben over 2017 Rodgers.


I've got no problem with your honest bias and his play has improved, but come on:

Ben is not even the best QB in Pennsylvania.

Regarding the thread's topic, Ben homers bring down Bell because his greatness takes away from Ben. Ignoring Bell's NFL RECORD dominance is just thinly veiled insecurity about Ben's lack of dominance. Ben is still a great NFL franchise QB...but he's a tier below the top performing QBs at this stage in his career. Bell, on the other hand, is peerless. But noooooo....can't give a dog his due if he doesn't wear #7.

Ben has had ALL the time in the world to throw these last 2 seasons and has the two best weapons in the NFL hands down. Last year, we don't make it to the AFC Championship without riding Bell. And yet this is the BEST this offense can do? QBs are the leaders...they can't get the praise without the blame. This offense is still a mess. He ran the no-huddle in the first half against the Bengals and they still barely got 3 points.

Ben won it all with a #1 and a #4 defense. Without a great defense? Ben has also shown immaturity throughout his career and even this year, when his shitty play was questioned. You don't expect snark from a veteran. Eli showed CLASS when benched. The entire Giants nation past and present rallied around that class. Ben? Maybe I lost it blah blah.

He wanted to retire for fuck sakes!

Since Ben is still the greatest QB in the Cosmos, who really is at fault?:

1. Haley
2. Tomlin
3. Art
4. Goodell
5. the refs
6. the media
7. the Mayan apocalypse.

All sarcasm aside, Brady, Brees, Wentz, and (healthy) Rodgers put up 30+ a game with the same offense and they'd give us a stronger shot at a SB victory. 5 seconds to throw. Bell and Brown. What would they do with that? Those guys play at a different level than Ben. It's a big drop between them and him.

For one game or perhaps 3 in a row, Ben can still light it up. His play has improved and he's a weapon again. Frankly, I think he might become old Ben if he gets MORE pressure, not less. Sitting back on his ass with 5 seconds to throw and having Bell and Brown bail the offense out has made him lose focus. Against the Bengals, there was some of that old killer instinct. Maybe he needs a few hits to manufacture emotion. We'll see how he responds against the Ravens and the Patriots.

Back on topic. Bell is a generational talent. Anyone that casually dismisses Bell yet back Ben at all costs isn't a Steeler fan...they are a Ben fan.


And you, are one of the board members, who continually, put every one of Ben's passes under a fucking microscope. You have become a known Ben disliker, jumping at each opportunity to discredit and devalue his team worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Philip Rivers? Seriously? The guy who has the #2 defense and is 6-6?

Rivers is terrible in close games and Ben is all-time great.

You have to forget Fantasy football and TV talking heads... think about what kind of offense Ben is tasked to run over the course of his career. Think about how much incredible winning football Ben has played and how infrequently Rivers has done the same.

As for Wentz, he’s had a nice year. Just answer me this: excluding what might happen in future years, would you trade Ben for Wentz right now, purely for 2017-18 run at a SB?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:54 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Philip Rivers? Seriously? The guy who has the #2 defense and is 6-6?

Rivers is terrible in close games and Ben is all-time great.

You have to forget Fantasy football and TV talking heads... think about what kind of offense Ben is tasked to run over the course of his career. Think about how much incredible winning football Ben has played and how infrequently Rivers has done the same.

As for Wentz, he’s had a nice year. Just answer me this: excluding what might happen in future years, would you trade Ben for Wentz right now, purely for 2017-18 run at a SB?


TB takes the Stat Whore approach to his analysis; no surprise there.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Bell played 12 games last year.
Played 12 regular season games this year.

2016 12 261 for 1268 4.9 avg -7 TD 75 rec. 618 8.2 - 2 TD
2017 12 270 for 1057 3.9 avg- 5 TD 66 rec. 502. 7.6 - 1 TD


To me, the burst and speed is noticeably less than earlier in the year (after he shook off the rust). Could very well be a function of the workload. But he has great vision and runs with power, so he doesn't have to be the fastest guy to be very productive behind good blocking.

As for the numbers year-over-year, he picked-up about 0.6 yards per catch on that gift when the CIN player just stopped thinking he'd go out of bounds.

Otherwise, among backs on pace for 1000+ yards, he's significantly below 5-6 guys in yards per carry (not counting David Johnson who's out for the year....but he was only 4.2 last year, and Zeke Elliot is only 4.1 this year). 7 or 8 guys average significantly better on yards per reception.

Bell is first in total yards among RB's, T-4th in TD's among the top-9. Gurley, Hunt and Kamara are all considerably more efficient in both yards per carry and catch. So are Chris Thompson and Duke Johnson, but they have barely half the yards Bell does.

You can't just ignore the drop-off in his efficiency/speed this year and, compared to some other guys above, say $12M/yr is a smart move. I think they'll end-up tagging him again, and then let him test the FA market. That makes the most fiscal sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:40 am 
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I don't know if you guys know this or not, but football is a team game. Winning and losing games comes down to the offense, defense, special teams, playcalling, preparation, etc.

Opening weekend the Chargers were on the road in Denver down 24-7. Had a 4th and 1 at the Denver 48 and Melvin Gordon got slammed behind the LOS. Rivers then led back to back TD drives to cut it to 24-21 once they got the ball back. Then was leading the game tying drive when their kicker missed a 44 yarder that would've sent it to OT. Next week against Miami, same thing. Rivers led them down the field late, their kicker this time missed a game winning 44 yarder. Week 4 against Philadelphia, Rivers led back to back 4th quarter TD drives, they're down 26-24 and kickoff to the Eagles with 6:44 left. The Chargers never got the ball back. The D gives up a 13 play drive to the Eagles, and Wentz kneels it out for the win. Their FG kicker then got cut.

They're 6-2 after that game, with their only losses at New England and in OT against Jacksonville, Rivers had multiple game winning fourth quarter drives in that stretch as well. 4 to 1 TD to INT ratio in games decided by 7 points of less, 4th quarter QBR of 105.9, which is 4th in the NFL only behind some guys name Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees.

But Rivers has been terrible in close games this year. :lol: at the never ending bias.

Rivers, at minimum, has been just as good as Ben this year if not better. Give them Chris Boswell and give us Younghoe Kim and what would the records be? Give us Anthony Lynn and them Mike Tomlin, what would change? Give them the Heinz Field home crowd and give us whatever "home field" the Chargers have, which is the worst in football, easily. What changes? I know one thing that wouldn't change, the fact that some here just can't objectively evaluate other QBs in comparison to our guy. I don't know why I even try anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:47 am 
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TB wrote:
I don't know if you guys know this or not, but football is a team game. Winning and losing games comes down to the offense, defense, special teams, playcalling, preparation, etc.

Opening weekend the Chargers were on the road in Denver down 24-7. Had a 4th and 1 at the Denver 48 and Melvin Gordon got slammed behind the LOS. Rivers then led back to back TD drives to cut it to 24-21 once they got the ball back. Then was leading the game tying drive when their kicker missed a 44 yarder that would've sent it to OT. Next week against Miami, same thing. Rivers led them down the field late, their kicker this time missed a game winning 44 yarder. Week 4 against Philadelphia, Rivers led back to back 4th quarter TD drives, they're down 26-24 and kickoff to the Eagles with 6:44 left. The Chargers never got the ball back. The D gives up a 13 play drive to the Eagles, and Wentz kneels it out for the win. Their FG kicker then got cut.

They're 6-2 after that game, with their only losses at New England and in OT against Jacksonville, Rivers had multiple game winning fourth quarter drives in that stretch as well. 4 to 1 TD to INT ratio in games decided by 7 points of less, 4th quarter QBR of 105.9, which is 4th in the NFL only behind some guys name Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees.

But Rivers has been terrible in close games this year. :lol: at the never ending bias.

Rivers, at minimum, has been just as good as Ben this year if not better. Give them Chris Boswell and give us Younghoe Kim and what would the records be? Give us Anthony Lynn and them Mike Tomlin, what would change? Give them the Heinz Field home crowd and give us whatever "home field" the Chargers have, which is the worst in football, easily. What changes? I know one thing that wouldn't change, the fact that some here just can't objectively evaluate other QBs in comparison to our guy. I don't know why I even try anymore.




ahh the old if my aunt had balls shed be my uncle argument. Ok ill play..give Ben a sunny sunday with a perfect track virtually every week. Ben all day every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:48 am 
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TB wrote:
I don't know if you guys know this or not, but football is a team game. Winning and losing games comes down to the offense, defense, special teams, playcalling, preparation, etc.

Opening weekend the Chargers were on the road in Denver down 24-7. Had a 4th and 1 at the Denver 48 and Melvin Gordon got slammed behind the LOS. Rivers then led back to back TD drives to cut it to 24-21 once they got the ball back. Then was leading the game tying drive when their kicker missed a 44 yarder that would've sent it to OT. Next week against Miami, same thing. Rivers led them down the field late, their kicker this time missed a game winning 44 yarder. Week 4 against Philadelphia, Rivers led back to back 4th quarter TD drives, they're down 26-24 and kickoff to the Eagles with 6:44 left. The Chargers never got the ball back. The D gives up a 13 play drive to the Eagles, and Wentz kneels it out for the win. Their FG kicker then got cut.

They're 6-2 after that game, with their only losses at New England and in OT against Jacksonville, Rivers had multiple game winning fourth quarter drives in that stretch as well. 4 to 1 TD to INT ratio in games decided by 7 points of less, 4th quarter QBR of 105.9, which is 4th in the NFL only behind some guys name Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees.

But Rivers has been terrible in close games this year. :lol: at the never ending bias.

Rivers, at minimum, has been just as good as Ben this year if not better. Give them Chris Boswell and give us Younghoe Kim and what would the records be? Give us Anthony Lynn and them Mike Tomlin, what would change? Give them the Heinz Field home crowd and give us whatever "home field" the Chargers have, which is the worst in football, easily. What changes? I know one thing that wouldn't change, the fact that some here just can't objectively evaluate other QBs in comparison to our guy. I don't know why I even try anymore.


No TB....we didn't know that. Thanks for letting us know that football is a team game.

My prevailing memory of Philip Rivers will be this. Despite all the accolades he received for toughing it out and facing the New England Patriots in the '07 AFCCG despite having suffered a very serious knee injury during the previous week, Rivers hurt his team that day and was called out on it by Bill Cowher at halftime.

Chargers did not find the end zone in that AFCCG, Rivers threw a pair of picks. Meanwhile, Billy Volek, the guy that quite ably led the winning drive versus the heavily favored Colts the previous week, sat his ass on the bench. Volek would have given his team a better chance to win that day...despite Rivers apparent heroics.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:06 pm 
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TB wrote:
:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

Image


Ok dont want to take exception to much that you stated except your assertion that it is laudable that a center has not given up a sack for over a year. Cmon man. A center 50% or more of the time in pass pro is uncovered and looks for blitzers or more likely helps out one of the guards (or looks for a stunt coming his way). A center does not engage in one on one pass blocking nearly as often as a guard or tackle. A center achieving this stat is hardly note worthy, now a tackle absolutely a very impressive accomplishment. Pouncey is a good football player, I like his skills BUT he aint an $11MM a year player, frankly not close to that level of play. He's the fourth highest paid player on the team and he is not close to being the fourth best or most important player on the Steelers. Thats my beef and it is important cause it is a sign of poor cap management. That money should have been used on a corner two years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Man, Stinger, you sure have it out for Pouncey. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Swiss, WTF does anything you just posted have to do with the year 2017 and whether Ben or Rivers has been better this year as far as who deserves to go the Pro Bowl?

No one is trying to argue that Rivers has had a better career than Ben and we all know Ben has gotten it done in big moments and Rivers hasn't. Don't really understand how it is valid to this discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Man, Stinger, you sure have it out for Pouncey. :lol:


You know what Lit I actually dont. I do think he is a little over rated but he is overall a good player. If he made $7.5MM you would not hear a peep from me. I also criticize the QB some times mainly because of his stipend. You wanna make $20 large, no problem earn it. Come to camp in shape, be the absolute best you can be. When you do, like QB has the past few weeks, I'm good no bitching. Gots to earn your dough, cause its a salary cap system. If not a salary cap fuck it give em all $20MM not my money 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:33 pm 
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TB wrote:
Swiss, WTF does anything you just posted have to do with the year 2017 and whether Ben or Rivers has been better this year as far as who deserves to go the Pro Bowl?

No one is trying to argue that Rivers has had a better career than Ben and we all know Ben has gotten it done in big moments and Rivers hasn't. Don't really understand how it is valid to this discussion.


Has nothing to do with 2017. And...have to admit not reading every entry in this OP, but is this about who goes to the Pro Bowl? If that's the case, belong in the Who Gives a Fuck category.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:07 pm 
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1. I make point about Ben not being a Pro Bowl QB in 2017, with Rivers included as someone who has played better than Ben this year.

2. Poster responds by saying Rivers is terrible in close games, says Chargers should have a better record this year, Ben more deserving than Rivers.

3. I specifically respond to that, using facts and specific game examples of Rivers playing great and his team coming up short, field goal kicker getting cut after missing two game on the line kicks, overall great play in fourth quarter and close games this year from Rivers.

4. Another poster recants some old memory completely unrelated to the argument about Rivers in the '06 playoffs hurting his team by playing on a torn ACL.

5. I respond by saying WTF does that have to do with what me and the previous poster were talking about.

6. Same poster responds by whining about me not staying on topic.

This board is insufferable at times. :lol: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:24 pm 
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TB wrote:
1. I make point about Ben not being a Pro Bowl QB in 2017, with Rivers included as someone who has played better than Ben this year.

2. Poster responds by saying Rivers is terrible in close games, says Chargers should have a better record this year, Ben more deserving than Rivers.

3. I specifically respond to that, using facts and specific game examples of Rivers playing great and his team coming up short, field goal kicker getting cut after missing two game on the line kicks, overall great play in fourth quarter and close games this year from Rivers.

4. Another poster recants some old memory completely unrelated to the argument about Rivers in the '06 playoffs hurting his team by playing on a torn ACL.

5. I respond by saying WTF does that have to do with what me and the previous poster were talking about.

6. Same poster responds by whining about me not staying on topic.

This board is insufferable at times. :lol: :roll:


You talking about me? I said nothing about you not staying on topic. I admitted my post had nothing to do with 2017, admitted not necessarily being cognizant of the topic, gave my opinion that topic fell in to the Who Gives a Fuck category, far as I was concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Quote:

Pittsburgh Steelers‏
Verified account

@steelers

.@L_Bell26 set an NFL record for the most yards from scrimmage in a player's first 60 regular-season games with 7,734 (Eric Dickerson: 7,636).


Last edited by GreekSteel on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:13 pm 
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TB wrote:
:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

Image


When you say "Smith" has been better than Ben this year, do you mean Alex?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 pm 
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KC wrote:
TB wrote:
:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

Image


When you say "Smith" has been better than Ben this year, do you mean Alex?


TB is definitely a Steelers fan.

TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker, and a fan boy of QB's who post impressive fantasy football numbers, even if those QB's are known choking dogs in big games, and have never won anything of relevance.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:30 pm 
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TB wrote:
1. I make point about Ben not being a Pro Bowl QB in 2017, with Rivers included as someone who has played better than Ben this year.

2. Poster responds by saying Rivers is terrible in close games, says Chargers should have a better record this year, Ben more deserving than Rivers.

3. I specifically respond to that, using facts and specific game examples of Rivers playing great and his team coming up short, field goal kicker getting cut after missing two game on the line kicks, overall great play in fourth quarter and close games this year from Rivers.

You were right that Rivers has been better this year than I gave him credit for... but he still hasn't outplayed Ben, by pretty much any measurement.

After week 14, and subject to change, my Pro Bowl Votes were:

Brady, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Wentz, Wilson, Brees. For me Wentz, Wilson, Keenum, and Alex Smith are 5/6/7/8. Still three weeks to go, however. Still having a lot of trouble buying that Ben is not a Pro Bowl QB in 2017.

Rank in AFC (Rivers in parentheses):
3rd in DYAR (2), 3rd in DVOA (1) (the 5 INT game really hurt... has climbed back up from like 20th), 3rd in QBR (6), 2nd in yards (3), 2nd in eYards (3rd), 2nd in TDs (T-3), 1st in Wins (T-5)

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Through the first half of the season, Ben definitely wasn't a PB level QB.

After what he's done starting against Tennessee through now though? Coming off that performance against the Ravens? He, along with Brady and Rivers should be the guys that are selected for the AFC. Hopefully he won't be playing in it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:44 pm 
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You really have to look at QB's performance over a significant stretch to understand how good they are today.

Context is important and can shift quickly.

Just look at Carr, Winston and Mariota. These dudes were all "stars" preseason and they are duds now.

If i had to choose a QB for one game I would never choose a player who has performed over a short period of time - Cam, Ryan, Wentz, et al - over QB's who have done it through shifting context like Brady, Ben, Brees, Rodgers.

btw Rivers is fantastic and always has been. Switch he and Ben and he'd have 2 SB wins as well. (maybe just not the same ones:))

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


Poppycock.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:24 pm 
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I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:32 pm 
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KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Pretty sure he did.

I don't know why he would say that though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:38 pm 
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KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Alex Smith was definitely playing better than Roethlisberger right up until the point after which Alex most definitely was not.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Alex Smith was definitely playing better than Roethlisberger right up until the point after which Alex most definitely was not.

:lol:


Ben was terrible for a good part of this year.

He's still, even during a down stretch, a better player than Alex Smith even when Smith is on top of his game.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


You're also, a known Ben disliker.

I can't hold you accountable, entirety. Likely, deep rooted psychological deficiencies.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Stillchest wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


You're also, a known Ben disliker.

I can't hold you accountable, entirety. Likely, deep rooted psychological deficiencies.


Yeah, I'm such a Ben hater that I argue he's a first ballot lock. I have also gloated over how well he has played recently. So. Get over it. I criticize him when he plays below his standards, which are extremely high because he has been such an elite player for so long. In addition I am known to be wrong often.

But a "known Ben disliker"? GTFOOH. TB also praises the dude to high heaven.

Obviously you never read Naelae's posts. Now THAT DUDE was a Ben hater.

Could be you just have a hero worship problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:40 pm 
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I remember the early careers of all these guy. They all have this in common: each looked completely unlike anything DCs had seen to date. Dickerson, in particular, actually LOOKED different—with the smoked facemask and the oversized mouthguard. He looked like an alien. Also, he seemed to wander FOREVER along the line of scrimmage and then suddenly cut into a hole, hit the jets, and the race was on.

Bell is slowish by comparison. But he has the same patient…almost playing a different game quality. The whole game looks different when he is in it.

All the talk about contracts, there’s not doubt Bell is worth a lot of money. How much? Who knows. But sadly, he will probably go elsewhere, perhaps ending his career having run up numbers for 2-3-4 teams. That was the case with Dickerson. But for my money, he never had the impact he had in his early years with the Rams.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


Poppycock.


Piffle.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:31 pm 
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KC wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Alex Smith was definitely playing better than Roethlisberger right up until the point after which Alex most definitely was not.

:lol:


Ben was terrible for a good part of this year.

He's still, even during a down stretch, a better player than Alex Smith even when Smith is on top of his game.


I mean, Smith would've been MVP after the first two months of the season. But that team has completely fallen apart. Ben is obviously the better player overall, but like you said, Ben wasn't that good for a significant part of this season either, which is why I thought there were several QBs with just as good if not better arguments for year end awards. But over the last month Roethlisberger has gone back to playing at an elite level, which is why I think Ben would get the PB nod over Smith, not to mention how we've won these last few games.

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