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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:48 am 
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TB wrote:
I don't know if you guys know this or not, but football is a team game. Winning and losing games comes down to the offense, defense, special teams, playcalling, preparation, etc.

Opening weekend the Chargers were on the road in Denver down 24-7. Had a 4th and 1 at the Denver 48 and Melvin Gordon got slammed behind the LOS. Rivers then led back to back TD drives to cut it to 24-21 once they got the ball back. Then was leading the game tying drive when their kicker missed a 44 yarder that would've sent it to OT. Next week against Miami, same thing. Rivers led them down the field late, their kicker this time missed a game winning 44 yarder. Week 4 against Philadelphia, Rivers led back to back 4th quarter TD drives, they're down 26-24 and kickoff to the Eagles with 6:44 left. The Chargers never got the ball back. The D gives up a 13 play drive to the Eagles, and Wentz kneels it out for the win. Their FG kicker then got cut.

They're 6-2 after that game, with their only losses at New England and in OT against Jacksonville, Rivers had multiple game winning fourth quarter drives in that stretch as well. 4 to 1 TD to INT ratio in games decided by 7 points of less, 4th quarter QBR of 105.9, which is 4th in the NFL only behind some guys name Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees.

But Rivers has been terrible in close games this year. :lol: at the never ending bias.

Rivers, at minimum, has been just as good as Ben this year if not better. Give them Chris Boswell and give us Younghoe Kim and what would the records be? Give us Anthony Lynn and them Mike Tomlin, what would change? Give them the Heinz Field home crowd and give us whatever "home field" the Chargers have, which is the worst in football, easily. What changes? I know one thing that wouldn't change, the fact that some here just can't objectively evaluate other QBs in comparison to our guy. I don't know why I even try anymore.


No TB....we didn't know that. Thanks for letting us know that football is a team game.

My prevailing memory of Philip Rivers will be this. Despite all the accolades he received for toughing it out and facing the New England Patriots in the '07 AFCCG despite having suffered a very serious knee injury during the previous week, Rivers hurt his team that day and was called out on it by Bill Cowher at halftime.

Chargers did not find the end zone in that AFCCG, Rivers threw a pair of picks. Meanwhile, Billy Volek, the guy that quite ably led the winning drive versus the heavily favored Colts the previous week, sat his ass on the bench. Volek would have given his team a better chance to win that day...despite Rivers apparent heroics.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:06 pm 
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TB wrote:
:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

Image


Ok dont want to take exception to much that you stated except your assertion that it is laudable that a center has not given up a sack for over a year. Cmon man. A center 50% or more of the time in pass pro is uncovered and looks for blitzers or more likely helps out one of the guards (or looks for a stunt coming his way). A center does not engage in one on one pass blocking nearly as often as a guard or tackle. A center achieving this stat is hardly note worthy, now a tackle absolutely a very impressive accomplishment. Pouncey is a good football player, I like his skills BUT he aint an $11MM a year player, frankly not close to that level of play. He's the fourth highest paid player on the team and he is not close to being the fourth best or most important player on the Steelers. Thats my beef and it is important cause it is a sign of poor cap management. That money should have been used on a corner two years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Man, Stinger, you sure have it out for Pouncey. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Swiss, WTF does anything you just posted have to do with the year 2017 and whether Ben or Rivers has been better this year as far as who deserves to go the Pro Bowl?

No one is trying to argue that Rivers has had a better career than Ben and we all know Ben has gotten it done in big moments and Rivers hasn't. Don't really understand how it is valid to this discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Man, Stinger, you sure have it out for Pouncey. :lol:


You know what Lit I actually dont. I do think he is a little over rated but he is overall a good player. If he made $7.5MM you would not hear a peep from me. I also criticize the QB some times mainly because of his stipend. You wanna make $20 large, no problem earn it. Come to camp in shape, be the absolute best you can be. When you do, like QB has the past few weeks, I'm good no bitching. Gots to earn your dough, cause its a salary cap system. If not a salary cap fuck it give em all $20MM not my money 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:33 pm 
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TB wrote:
Swiss, WTF does anything you just posted have to do with the year 2017 and whether Ben or Rivers has been better this year as far as who deserves to go the Pro Bowl?

No one is trying to argue that Rivers has had a better career than Ben and we all know Ben has gotten it done in big moments and Rivers hasn't. Don't really understand how it is valid to this discussion.


Has nothing to do with 2017. And...have to admit not reading every entry in this OP, but is this about who goes to the Pro Bowl? If that's the case, belong in the Who Gives a Fuck category.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:07 pm 
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1. I make point about Ben not being a Pro Bowl QB in 2017, with Rivers included as someone who has played better than Ben this year.

2. Poster responds by saying Rivers is terrible in close games, says Chargers should have a better record this year, Ben more deserving than Rivers.

3. I specifically respond to that, using facts and specific game examples of Rivers playing great and his team coming up short, field goal kicker getting cut after missing two game on the line kicks, overall great play in fourth quarter and close games this year from Rivers.

4. Another poster recants some old memory completely unrelated to the argument about Rivers in the '06 playoffs hurting his team by playing on a torn ACL.

5. I respond by saying WTF does that have to do with what me and the previous poster were talking about.

6. Same poster responds by whining about me not staying on topic.

This board is insufferable at times. :lol: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:24 pm 
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TB wrote:
1. I make point about Ben not being a Pro Bowl QB in 2017, with Rivers included as someone who has played better than Ben this year.

2. Poster responds by saying Rivers is terrible in close games, says Chargers should have a better record this year, Ben more deserving than Rivers.

3. I specifically respond to that, using facts and specific game examples of Rivers playing great and his team coming up short, field goal kicker getting cut after missing two game on the line kicks, overall great play in fourth quarter and close games this year from Rivers.

4. Another poster recants some old memory completely unrelated to the argument about Rivers in the '06 playoffs hurting his team by playing on a torn ACL.

5. I respond by saying WTF does that have to do with what me and the previous poster were talking about.

6. Same poster responds by whining about me not staying on topic.

This board is insufferable at times. :lol: :roll:


You talking about me? I said nothing about you not staying on topic. I admitted my post had nothing to do with 2017, admitted not necessarily being cognizant of the topic, gave my opinion that topic fell in to the Who Gives a Fuck category, far as I was concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Quote:

Pittsburgh Steelers‏
Verified account

@steelers

.@L_Bell26 set an NFL record for the most yards from scrimmage in a player's first 60 regular-season games with 7,734 (Eric Dickerson: 7,636).

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Last edited by GreekSteel on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:13 pm 
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TB wrote:
:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

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When you say "Smith" has been better than Ben this year, do you mean Alex?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 pm 
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KC wrote:
TB wrote:
:lol: at Bell not a top 5 back.

Why does a noticeable segment of this board try to shit on everyone that isn't our QB? Bell has been "figured out" and isn't a top 5 back (gets like 30 touches a game and does everything for this offense). DeCastro is a bust (going to be an All Pro this year). Shazpussy (incredibly passionate, hard working, team leader beloved by everyone in that locker room). Pouncey an overrated pussy (even though he went over a year without giving up a sack). AB is overrated and solely dependent on Ben for his success (routinely bails out Ben with circus catches, is the best, most consistent WR in football, and his highlight reel this season for tough catches will be insane). Mike Tomlin is 10-2 this year after winning two playoff games last year and you'd think he's on the verge of getting fired. Kevin Colbert is a drafting failure and should be fired (even though anyone outside of Pittsburgh would argue we have one of the most talented locker rooms in football).

But if you even suggest something as reasonable as "Hey, I don't think Ben Roethlisberger was a top 5 QB last year" (he wasn't, sorry) or "I don't think Ben should be a Pro Bowl QB this year" (Brady, Rivers, Wilson, Wentz, Brees, and Smith have been definitively better QBs this year) you're not a real Steelers fan, you should be forced to go back and watch old Kordell Stewart games with your eyes held pried open if you even think a negative thought about Big Ben, and you're a moron if you think the Steelers should do anything other than completely tanking after he retires and praying for an 0-16 season and the #1 pick. I don't get it.

Image


When you say "Smith" has been better than Ben this year, do you mean Alex?


TB is definitely a Steelers fan.

TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker, and a fan boy of QB's who post impressive fantasy football numbers, even if those QB's are known choking dogs in big games, and have never won anything of relevance.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:30 pm 
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TB wrote:
1. I make point about Ben not being a Pro Bowl QB in 2017, with Rivers included as someone who has played better than Ben this year.

2. Poster responds by saying Rivers is terrible in close games, says Chargers should have a better record this year, Ben more deserving than Rivers.

3. I specifically respond to that, using facts and specific game examples of Rivers playing great and his team coming up short, field goal kicker getting cut after missing two game on the line kicks, overall great play in fourth quarter and close games this year from Rivers.

You were right that Rivers has been better this year than I gave him credit for... but he still hasn't outplayed Ben, by pretty much any measurement.

After week 14, and subject to change, my Pro Bowl Votes were:

Brady, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Wentz, Wilson, Brees. For me Wentz, Wilson, Keenum, and Alex Smith are 5/6/7/8. Still three weeks to go, however. Still having a lot of trouble buying that Ben is not a Pro Bowl QB in 2017.

Rank in AFC (Rivers in parentheses):
3rd in DYAR (2), 3rd in DVOA (1) (the 5 INT game really hurt... has climbed back up from like 20th), 3rd in QBR (6), 2nd in yards (3), 2nd in eYards (3rd), 2nd in TDs (T-3), 1st in Wins (T-5)

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Through the first half of the season, Ben definitely wasn't a PB level QB.

After what he's done starting against Tennessee through now though? Coming off that performance against the Ravens? He, along with Brady and Rivers should be the guys that are selected for the AFC. Hopefully he won't be playing in it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:44 pm 
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You really have to look at QB's performance over a significant stretch to understand how good they are today.

Context is important and can shift quickly.

Just look at Carr, Winston and Mariota. These dudes were all "stars" preseason and they are duds now.

If i had to choose a QB for one game I would never choose a player who has performed over a short period of time - Cam, Ryan, Wentz, et al - over QB's who have done it through shifting context like Brady, Ben, Brees, Rodgers.

btw Rivers is fantastic and always has been. Switch he and Ben and he'd have 2 SB wins as well. (maybe just not the same ones:))

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


Poppycock.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:24 pm 
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I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:32 pm 
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KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Pretty sure he did.

I don't know why he would say that though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:38 pm 
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KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Alex Smith was definitely playing better than Roethlisberger right up until the point after which Alex most definitely was not.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Alex Smith was definitely playing better than Roethlisberger right up until the point after which Alex most definitely was not.

:lol:


Ben was terrible for a good part of this year.

He's still, even during a down stretch, a better player than Alex Smith even when Smith is on top of his game.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


You're also, a known Ben disliker.

I can't hold you accountable, entirety. Likely, deep rooted psychological deficiencies.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Stillchest wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


You're also, a known Ben disliker.

I can't hold you accountable, entirety. Likely, deep rooted psychological deficiencies.


Yeah, I'm such a Ben hater that I argue he's a first ballot lock. I have also gloated over how well he has played recently. So. Get over it. I criticize him when he plays below his standards, which are extremely high because he has been such an elite player for so long. In addition I am known to be wrong often.

But a "known Ben disliker"? GTFOOH. TB also praises the dude to high heaven.

Obviously you never read Naelae's posts. Now THAT DUDE was a Ben hater.

Could be you just have a hero worship problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:40 pm 
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I remember the early careers of all these guy. They all have this in common: each looked completely unlike anything DCs had seen to date. Dickerson, in particular, actually LOOKED different—with the smoked facemask and the oversized mouthguard. He looked like an alien. Also, he seemed to wander FOREVER along the line of scrimmage and then suddenly cut into a hole, hit the jets, and the race was on.

Bell is slowish by comparison. But he has the same patient…almost playing a different game quality. The whole game looks different when he is in it.

All the talk about contracts, there’s not doubt Bell is worth a lot of money. How much? Who knows. But sadly, he will probably go elsewhere, perhaps ending his career having run up numbers for 2-3-4 teams. That was the case with Dickerson. But for my money, he never had the impact he had in his early years with the Rams.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Stillchest wrote:
TB is an ultimate Ben Roethlisberger disliker


Rubbish.


Poppycock.


Piffle.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell about to break an impressive record...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:31 pm 
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KC wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
KC wrote:
I'll ask again.

Did he mean Alex Smith had played better this year than Roethlisberger?

Can anyone clarify?


Alex Smith was definitely playing better than Roethlisberger right up until the point after which Alex most definitely was not.

:lol:


Ben was terrible for a good part of this year.

He's still, even during a down stretch, a better player than Alex Smith even when Smith is on top of his game.


I mean, Smith would've been MVP after the first two months of the season. But that team has completely fallen apart. Ben is obviously the better player overall, but like you said, Ben wasn't that good for a significant part of this season either, which is why I thought there were several QBs with just as good if not better arguments for year end awards. But over the last month Roethlisberger has gone back to playing at an elite level, which is why I think Ben would get the PB nod over Smith, not to mention how we've won these last few games.

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