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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:14 pm 
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It was one of those plays that it would be very difficult to determine the exact moment he had possession of the ball. That would have been subjective. Precisely the calls that should stand as called on he field, and precisely the calls the officials get out the protractor and fuck up!

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Lifelongsteel wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.


Post the vid, B2B...I think he was in....was shown repeatedly.


His first foot was down when the ball arrived, but he didn't possess it clearly right away. By the time his second foot was down he had control. third foot oob.

I think this play would have been overturned with a challenge.

This is exactly how I saw it live and during the replays, Lifelong. I would have challenged it (from my view, anyway).


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:18 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.


Are we to slow the thing down frame by frame so as to detect the almost imperceptible wobble of the ball as his feet went out of bounds, B2B?

This is what we bitch about replay for.

LaFell made a great catch, and got two feet down in bounds. No way was replay anywhere near conclusive enough to say the officials “blew the call”.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:23 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.

b2b, I agree with both points. That pass to Brown was a thing of beauty....said so as it happened. Great play by the DB to get a finger on it and pop it out last second. I know I've given Ben some shit on this site this year, but I always stated why....he wasn't playing up to his potential imo. He has really turned it on the last few games. Not sure what the turning point was for him, but the switch is definitely on now. Let's hope it grows from here.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:28 pm 
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FWIW, 7-8 of Ben's picks have come on 3rd down (and he's had bad luck on 6-7 picks...not sure what the overlap is).

I bet if you dig a bit deeper, a lot of those picks have come between the 30's. So the guy is taking risks on 3rd down where a turnover hurts you the least. He did have a narrow window on that pick last night, and I'm sure he thought he could rifle it in there. Didn't seem like he got much on it, and so it looks [is] a really bad pick....but a play we've seen him make countless times.

We've all bitched when he throws it away or short of the sticks and they punt. I'm not sure how you bring down the INT's without also punting more as a result, but I think the OC and other 10 guys play a role in the solution, as well.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:35 pm 
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I also think those hits Ben took last night may have woken up his inner bear.....don't poke the bear. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:45 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.

b2b, I agree with both points. That pass to Brown was a thing of beauty....said so as it happened. Great play by the DB to get a finger on it and pop it out last second. I know I've given Ben some shit on this site this year, but I always stated why....he wasn't playing up to his potential imo. He has really turned it on the last few games. Not sure what the turning point was for him, but the switch is definitely on now. Let's hope it grows from here.


Ben had a NUMBER of balls that he squeezed through MINUSCULE windows in the middle of the field - throws that I think he used to struggle with.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
DP39 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.

b2b, I agree with both points. That pass to Brown was a thing of beauty....said so as it happened. Great play by the DB to get a finger on it and pop it out last second. I know I've given Ben some shit on this site this year, but I always stated why....he wasn't playing up to his potential imo. He has really turned it on the last few games. Not sure what the turning point was for him, but the switch is definitely on now. Let's hope it grows from here.


Ben had a NUMBER of balls that he squeezed through MINUSCULE windows in the middle of the field - throws that I think he used to struggle with.
Except the interception, of course. Seemed like a bone headed throw at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:52 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Except the interception, of course. Seemed like a bone headed throw at the time.


He either didn't account for Jones or didn't think he could slide over and undercut the route so fast...if he had the normal zip on that throw that he usually does, it wouldn't have been picked.

It happens.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:55 pm 
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He came back RIGHT AFTER THE INT and threw against his body into an impossible window to hit AB. #noconscience

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Of course, Ben also missed a wide open Jerald Hawkins down the seam on the first drive :lol:
https://twitter.com/AccidentalZen/status/938076826907193345

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Except the interception, of course. Seemed like a bone headed throw at the time.


He either didn't account for Jones or didn't think he could slide over and undercut the route so fast...if he had the normal zip on that throw that he usually does, it wouldn't have been picked.

It happens.


I thought that ball was complete at first. It's gonna happen with throws into tight windows. Best example ever....Ben thought his SB-winning pass to Santonio was going to be picked. Best description I heard of that was next day by Jim Rome..."Ben has the arm...and the stones....to make that throw."


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:02 pm 
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I don’t think on the interception that it was a bad throw or poor decision. I think if anything, Ben was a tad late. The receiver was open...the Pac-Man made a great play.

I’m watching the game replay on NFLN right now. Just saw the Lafell catch...B2B is correct. By the time he controlled the ball, foot was OOBs. Wasn’t even close.

And on the hold on Watt that negated the TD, Bernard actually held him twice. Bear hugged Watt on his initial move, then grabbed his jersey as he broke free. Definitely impacted the play.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:10 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
He came back RIGHT AFTER THE INT and threw against his body into an impossible window to hit AB. #noconscience


For as "non-Ben" as his arm was the first half of the year, he's thrown the ball as well as he ever has the past 3-4 games. Hope it continues (he pretty much threw that way ALL of 2014 and 2015).

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
I don’t think on the interception that it was a bad throw or poor decision.


It would have been one hell of a throw into that window moving forward and to his left. I think that's what makes it a bad decision - impossible throw, IMO.

Maybe if he wasn't a little late, but that's splitting hairs.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:33 pm 
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He was late after he had to avoid a rusher in his face... too much faith in his arm at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Except the interception, of course. Seemed like a bone headed throw at the time.


He either didn't account for Jones or didn't think he could slide over and undercut the route so fast...if he had the normal zip on that throw that he usually does, it wouldn't have been picked.

It happens.
They showed an all 22 view right after, and it looked like three defenders were closing in on the passing lane. Guy wasn't open at all, and if he was, it was for a nanosecond. I could be wrong, but at the time it looked ill advised.

But overall, BR's play was stellar.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Ben is the first player coach since Landry had Dan Reeves doing it couple decades ago. Without Tomlin this never would have happened and because of Tomlin allowing Ben to be a player coach running the offense he wants we have a shot to finally kick New England's ass


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:57 pm 
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I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on one of the two people referenced
I will admit that I noticed several games back that the HC does appear to be learning some lessons and actually experimenting this year with alternative philosophies. We shall see what happens when faced with an opponent that has talent and excellent coaching. I freely admit there are only a few of those teams


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:11 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
He came back RIGHT AFTER THE INT and threw against his body into an impossible window to hit AB. #noconscience


The dude is fearless and does not care about protecting his stats (ala Dalton throwing it OOB on fourth down earlier in the year against the Steelers). He’ll go down swinging or fight long enough to hit a knockout blow.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:27 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
I’m not getting the Fichtner reference. Are we saying he’s the de facto OC right now?

Something going on of which I’m not aware?

Just that he moved from the box to the sideline coincidentally with the uptick in Ben's/offense's performance.


Aha, some more oversight!!! Always better to have another set of eyes to see the path to the hole 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:34 pm 
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R S wrote:
It was one of those plays that it would be very difficult to determine the exact moment he had possession of the ball. That would have been subjective. Precisely the calls that should stand as called on he field, and precisely the calls the officials get out the protractor and fuck up!


The ball hits both hands, and essentially bounces off them, and is finally secured. I mean it's what happens in a slow motion catch in some cases. I believe they consider that control... the ball is moving, but you've "caught" it.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:35 am 
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TB wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
He came back RIGHT AFTER THE INT and threw against his body into an impossible window to hit AB. #noconscience


The dude is fearless and does not care about protecting his stats (ala Dalton throwing it OOB on fourth down earlier in the year against the Steelers). He’ll go down swinging or fight long enough to hit a knockout blow.

This - I can't think of another QB who cares less about stats than Ben. All that matters to him is winning, numbers be damned.

People still talk about how bad his numbers were on SB XL but he ran in one TD and made that amazing throw to Hines where he stopped at the LOS and went backwards to make sure the pass was legal. His passing numbers were not pretty but he still willed us to the win (and after leading the team with 2 great passing performances in Indy & Denver).


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:09 am 
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Stillerz Bar wrote:
TB wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
He came back RIGHT AFTER THE INT and threw against his body into an impossible window to hit AB. #noconscience


The dude is fearless and does not care about protecting his stats (ala Dalton throwing it OOB on fourth down earlier in the year against the Steelers). He’ll go down swinging or fight long enough to hit a knockout blow.

This - I can't think of another QB who cares less about stats than Ben. All that matters to him is winning, numbers be damned.

People still talk about how bad his numbers were on SB XL but he ran in one TD and made that amazing throw to Hines where he stopped at the LOS and went backwards to make sure the pass was legal. His passing numbers were not pretty but he still willed us to the win (and after leading the team with 2 great passing performances in Indy & Denver).


To be fair, fellas, is there really a QB out there that cares more about (protecting) stats than winning?

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:04 am 
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Still Lit wrote:

To be fair, fellas, is there really a QB out there that cares more about (protecting) stats than winning?


There were always rumblings that Rob Johnson from the Bills would refuse to throw the ball away and take a sack because it would hurt his QB Rating and future $$$ earnings


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