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 Post subject: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:42 pm 
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I know I have been strident in defending this team's QB and Head Coach, and that many (most of you) are gleefully belittling me for it. But last night's game is my defense in a nutshell. It's not about any one poor throw or bad decision-- that's not how you judge greatness. You judge greatness by how it handles adversity and how it refuses to give up.

It's why we fear the Patriots and Brady. When they were getting their asses kicked in the first part of the Buffalo game, was there any doubt they were going to find a way, likely to a blow out? That was the most likely outcome, and it's always a surprise when they get actually outscored and the game is over.

This QB & HC we have are like that to 30 franchises.

The reason I don't give a crap about nitpicking every throw/decision Ben makes is: he invariably makes so many more quality plays and comes up so big when the game and the season is on the line. He's totally in charge and icewater, in a "Look, it's John Candy!' kind of way. As long as that team has 7 out there, they've always got a chance.

As for the HC... the team turns like an oil tanker precisely so that it can stay the course and withstand huge blows like they did last night. However, he still manages to make the changes necessary to get the team to its best: more aggressive D, Fitchner to the sideline, more no-huddle, more Ben-centric offense, replacing Sensabaugh with Sutton, etc. Somehow, he's managed to, once again, press the buttons for his team. Even if you think it's a clusterfuck inside that black box, leave it alone-- it's working!

Can't say enough about what this team did after being down 17 and facing everything psychologically that they were at that point. They were dead in the water with :31 left in the half. From that point forward, 391-86 in yards, 19:13-11:18 TOP, 23-3 in points.

I think the NFL's strategy is trying to "penalty" STs out of existence... and it's working. Considering the affinity for return game penalties, pretty much every one of us on this board would take the ball at the 25 after KOs, and would take it 40 yards downfield after every punt. Encourage teams to go for it on 4th down when inside the opponents' 40, because a touchback is guaranteed.

I watch this team and, for all its drama/dysfunction... I don't think they're going to lose another meaningful game this season. 7 is getting us 7, and it's coming down the tracks before our very eyes. Get onboard the bandwagon now while there's plenty of room.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:06 pm 
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I agree with most of this. Exactly the reason I also don't nitpick Ben, he makes way more good plays than bad and hes earned an enormous amount of goodwill with me for all the greatness hes displayed on the field. As for the HC, I don't have him anywhere near Bens level in comparison, but he was at his best last night, as stated by others, hes a leader of men, and lead he did last night, rallied the troops, that doesn't mean hes a great gameday tactician and and game manager and he isn't it imo, would I want him over most other present nfl HCs? Yes, but that's also not saying a lot cuz most nfl coaches are morons on gameday imo. Overall he does more good than bad. As for Fichtner, no way to tell whose decision to put him on the sideline these last 3 games was unless you know something most of us don't.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:17 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
I agree with most of this. Exactly the reason I also don't nitpick Ben, he makes way more good plays than bad and hes earned an enormous amount of goodwill with me for all the greatness hes displayed on the field. As for the HC, I don't have him anywhere near Bens level in comparison, but he was at his best last night, as stated by others, hes a leader of men, and lead he did last night, rallied the troops, that doesn't mean hes a great gameday tactician and and game manager and he isn't it imo, would I want him over most other present nfl HCs? Yes, but that's also not saying a lot cuz most nfl coaches are morons on gameday imo. Overall he does more good than bad. As for Fichtner, no way to tell whose decision to put him on the sideline these last 3 games was unless you know something most of us don't.

I don't know that it was the HC, but I'm saying that whatever changes need to be made, eventually they get made-- happens every year.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:29 pm 
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I’m not getting the Fichtner reference. Are we saying he’s the de facto OC right now?

Something going on of which I’m not aware?

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
I’m not getting the Fichtner reference. Are we saying he’s the de facto OC right now?

Something going on of which I’m not aware?

Just that he moved from the box to the sideline coincidentally with the uptick in Ben's/offense's performance.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Nice post B2B. This team has some serious mental fortitude. And, as folks are fond of saying, that starts at the top. :)

What a legendary game . . .


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:35 pm 
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By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:40 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.


Post the vid, B2B...I think he was in....was shown repeatedly.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:46 pm 
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another thought..the old and tired narrative of "Ben eye fucks his WRs"...#1 all QBs do it at times, and #2 Ben eye fucked AB the whole time on that last TD so how you like them apples.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:47 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.


Post the vid, B2B...I think he was in....was shown repeatedly.


His first foot was down when the ball arrived, but he didn't possess it clearly right away. By the time his second foot was down he had control. third foot oob.

I think this play would have been overturned with a challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:14 pm 
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It was one of those plays that it would be very difficult to determine the exact moment he had possession of the ball. That would have been subjective. Precisely the calls that should stand as called on he field, and precisely the calls the officials get out the protractor and fuck up!

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Lifelongsteel wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.


Post the vid, B2B...I think he was in....was shown repeatedly.


His first foot was down when the ball arrived, but he didn't possess it clearly right away. By the time his second foot was down he had control. third foot oob.

I think this play would have been overturned with a challenge.

This is exactly how I saw it live and during the replays, Lifelong. I would have challenged it (from my view, anyway).


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:18 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.


Are we to slow the thing down frame by frame so as to detect the almost imperceptible wobble of the ball as his feet went out of bounds, B2B?

This is what we bitch about replay for.

LaFell made a great catch, and got two feet down in bounds. No way was replay anywhere near conclusive enough to say the officials “blew the call”.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:23 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.

b2b, I agree with both points. That pass to Brown was a thing of beauty....said so as it happened. Great play by the DB to get a finger on it and pop it out last second. I know I've given Ben some shit on this site this year, but I always stated why....he wasn't playing up to his potential imo. He has really turned it on the last few games. Not sure what the turning point was for him, but the switch is definitely on now. Let's hope it grows from here.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:28 pm 
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FWIW, 7-8 of Ben's picks have come on 3rd down (and he's had bad luck on 6-7 picks...not sure what the overlap is).

I bet if you dig a bit deeper, a lot of those picks have come between the 30's. So the guy is taking risks on 3rd down where a turnover hurts you the least. He did have a narrow window on that pick last night, and I'm sure he thought he could rifle it in there. Didn't seem like he got much on it, and so it looks [is] a really bad pick....but a play we've seen him make countless times.

We've all bitched when he throws it away or short of the sticks and they punt. I'm not sure how you bring down the INT's without also punting more as a result, but I think the OC and other 10 guys play a role in the solution, as well.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:35 pm 
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I also think those hits Ben took last night may have woken up his inner bear.....don't poke the bear. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:45 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.

b2b, I agree with both points. That pass to Brown was a thing of beauty....said so as it happened. Great play by the DB to get a finger on it and pop it out last second. I know I've given Ben some shit on this site this year, but I always stated why....he wasn't playing up to his potential imo. He has really turned it on the last few games. Not sure what the turning point was for him, but the switch is definitely on now. Let's hope it grows from here.


Ben had a NUMBER of balls that he squeezed through MINUSCULE windows in the middle of the field - throws that I think he used to struggle with.


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
DP39 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, two more thoughts:

1. the throws Ben made on the would be TD AB dropped and especially on the DPI deep ball before the half were as good as he's ever thrown the deep ball, so I think we can ditch that "why can't Ben hit the deep ball any more???" meme.

2. the Lafell catch of the Bengals lone scoring drive in H2 was a blown call-- he was nowhere near inbounds.

b2b, I agree with both points. That pass to Brown was a thing of beauty....said so as it happened. Great play by the DB to get a finger on it and pop it out last second. I know I've given Ben some shit on this site this year, but I always stated why....he wasn't playing up to his potential imo. He has really turned it on the last few games. Not sure what the turning point was for him, but the switch is definitely on now. Let's hope it grows from here.


Ben had a NUMBER of balls that he squeezed through MINUSCULE windows in the middle of the field - throws that I think he used to struggle with.
Except the interception, of course. Seemed like a bone headed throw at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:52 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Except the interception, of course. Seemed like a bone headed throw at the time.


He either didn't account for Jones or didn't think he could slide over and undercut the route so fast...if he had the normal zip on that throw that he usually does, it wouldn't have been picked.

It happens.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:55 pm 
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He came back RIGHT AFTER THE INT and threw against his body into an impossible window to hit AB. #noconscience

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Of course, Ben also missed a wide open Jerald Hawkins down the seam on the first drive :lol:
https://twitter.com/AccidentalZen/status/938076826907193345

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Except the interception, of course. Seemed like a bone headed throw at the time.


He either didn't account for Jones or didn't think he could slide over and undercut the route so fast...if he had the normal zip on that throw that he usually does, it wouldn't have been picked.

It happens.


I thought that ball was complete at first. It's gonna happen with throws into tight windows. Best example ever....Ben thought his SB-winning pass to Santonio was going to be picked. Best description I heard of that was next day by Jim Rome..."Ben has the arm...and the stones....to make that throw."


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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:02 pm 
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I don’t think on the interception that it was a bad throw or poor decision. I think if anything, Ben was a tad late. The receiver was open...the Pac-Man made a great play.

I’m watching the game replay on NFLN right now. Just saw the Lafell catch...B2B is correct. By the time he controlled the ball, foot was OOBs. Wasn’t even close.

And on the hold on Watt that negated the TD, Bernard actually held him twice. Bear hugged Watt on his initial move, then grabbed his jersey as he broke free. Definitely impacted the play.

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:10 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
He came back RIGHT AFTER THE INT and threw against his body into an impossible window to hit AB. #noconscience


For as "non-Ben" as his arm was the first half of the year, he's thrown the ball as well as he ever has the past 3-4 games. Hope it continues (he pretty much threw that way ALL of 2014 and 2015).

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 Post subject: Re: FWIW: Postgame Free Thought Project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
I don’t think on the interception that it was a bad throw or poor decision.


It would have been one hell of a throw into that window moving forward and to his left. I think that's what makes it a bad decision - impossible throw, IMO.

Maybe if he wasn't a little late, but that's splitting hairs.

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