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 Post subject: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:37 pm 
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After a slow start this season, looking (at best scenario) like a star player who was rusty from missing all of camp, or possibly (worst scenario) a player who had suddenly lost his explosiveness and wasn’t going to be the same, Bell has turned it on big time. Was awesome last night, taking on groups of would-be-tacklers at once, driving them backwards. Second consecutive week where he looked like the best back in the league again. Complete player. And a road warrior. Here are his all purpose stats from three huge road wins: 186 yards at Ravens, 191 at Chiefs, 182 at Bengals.


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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:47 pm 
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I don't know how we can keep Bell after this year, but we sure as fuck had better try.

He's one in a million.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:27 pm 
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I'd franchise him again. I'd be apprehensive to give him a long term now because A.) He'll probably demand more than $15m and B.) We're quite literally running the wheels off of him. I know he's in great shape, but how long can his body sustain this work load?

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:29 pm 
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StillerInCT wrote:
I'd franchise him again. I'd be apprehensive to give him a long term now because A.) He'll probably demand more than $15m and B.) We're quite literally running the wheels off of him. I know he's in great shape, but how long can his body sustain this work load?


I think they franchise Shazier if they franchise anyone. i think they will make Bell an offer or put a transition tag on him.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:32 pm 
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I don't think he's a $12M/yr back, fully 50% more than the next highest paid.

But offering him less money almost surely won't work. If you offer 4/$48M (basically the same as what was on the table last year, 1 year later) maybe.

If you franchise him, that's $14.5M next year. Then hope there's enough good will to let you match whatever he gets in FA, which probably won't be over $10M per. Potentially you're saving a few million in that scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:41 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
StillerInCT wrote:
I'd franchise him again. I'd be apprehensive to give him a long term now because A.) He'll probably demand more than $15m and B.) We're quite literally running the wheels off of him. I know he's in great shape, but how long can his body sustain this work load?


I think they franchise Shazier if they franchise anyone. i think they will make Bell an offer or put a transition tag on him.

They don't need to franchise Shazier. They picked up his option. If he comes back healthy they'll likely try to extend him and lower the cap hit a bit for 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Le'Veon Bell still has his vision. He still has his power. And, that has enabled him to have some big days this year behind some good blocking. But, despite those big days, he's averaging 3.9 per carry. That's right. He's averaging a whole yard less per carry than he did his last 2 years.

It's not even the stats. You can see it with your eyes if you don't lie to yourself. He isn't exploding through the whole the same way he did in the past, and he isn't accelerating in the secondary the way he did in the past. He's essentially more of a bruising running back right now...albeit one with very good hands.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a great back. My point is that he's not worth a long term investment given where his body is right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:09 pm 
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He was flat out trucking guys yesterday. Give him all that credit in the world. As violent as that game got, for him to continue taking the ball and slamming into that front 7 with the intent of delivering a blow took some balls. There were a couple times when he went straight at Burfict with clear malice in his eyes.

Freaking loved it.


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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:19 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
Le'Veon Bell still has his vision. He still has his power. And, that has enabled him to have some big days this year behind some good blocking. But, despite those big days, he's averaging 3.9 per carry. That's right. He's averaging a whole yard less per carry than he did his last 2 years.

It's not even the stats. You can see it with your eyes if you don't lie to yourself. He isn't exploding through the whole the same way he did in the past, and he isn't accelerating in the secondary the way he did in the past. He's essentially more of a bruising running back right now...albeit one with very good hands.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a great back. My point is that he's not worth a long term investment given where his body is right now.


His vision is really what sets him apart, IMO. He's not as powerful as Bettis, not as fast as Parker, and not as all around athletic as Mendhenhall. But he has superb vision, and he has enough of those other skills to make him dangerous (albeit I am worried about the decline in his speed and burst). Plus his hands are very good. At this point he's like a weird combination of Bettis and Marshall Faulk. He's obviously someone the Steelers would want to keep, but how do you price him? I don't think he's a $12 million a year guy, but it will hurt to lose him.


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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:36 pm 
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As inhumanly great as AB is, Bell is even more important to this offense right now. If he goes down, I'm pretty sure we're fucked.


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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:38 pm 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
franco32 wrote:
Le'Veon Bell still has his vision. He still has his power. And, that has enabled him to have some big days this year behind some good blocking. But, despite those big days, he's averaging 3.9 per carry. That's right. He's averaging a whole yard less per carry than he did his last 2 years.

It's not even the stats. You can see it with your eyes if you don't lie to yourself. He isn't exploding through the whole the same way he did in the past, and he isn't accelerating in the secondary the way he did in the past. He's essentially more of a bruising running back right now...albeit one with very good hands.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a great back. My point is that he's not worth a long term investment given where his body is right now.


His vision is really what sets him apart, IMO. He's not as powerful as Bettis, not as fast as Parker, and not as all around athletic as Mendhenhall. But he has superb vision, and he has enough of those other skills to make him dangerous (albeit I am worried about the decline in his speed and burst). Plus his hands are very good. At this point he's like a weird combination of Bettis and Marshall Faulk. He's obviously someone the Steelers would want to keep, but how do you price him? I don't think he's a $12 million a year guy, but it will hurt to lose him.

Mods,
Bell, Bettis, Parker, Mendanhall.........
Please escort W&M for a tour of the torture chamber.
Dilly, dilly.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
W&M_Steeler wrote:
franco32 wrote:
Le'Veon Bell still has his vision. He still has his power. And, that has enabled him to have some big days this year behind some good blocking. But, despite those big days, he's averaging 3.9 per carry. That's right. He's averaging a whole yard less per carry than he did his last 2 years.

It's not even the stats. You can see it with your eyes if you don't lie to yourself. He isn't exploding through the whole the same way he did in the past, and he isn't accelerating in the secondary the way he did in the past. He's essentially more of a bruising running back right now...albeit one with very good hands.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a great back. My point is that he's not worth a long term investment given where his body is right now.


His vision is really what sets him apart, IMO. He's not as powerful as Bettis, not as fast as Parker, and not as all around athletic as Mendhenhall. But he has superb vision, and he has enough of those other skills to make him dangerous (albeit I am worried about the decline in his speed and burst). Plus his hands are very good. At this point he's like a weird combination of Bettis and Marshall Faulk. He's obviously someone the Steelers would want to keep, but how do you price him? I don't think he's a $12 million a year guy, but it will hurt to lose him.

Mods,
Bell, Bettis, Parker, Mendanhall.........
Please escort W&M for a tour of the torture chamber.
Dilly, dilly.


I deserve that.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I think Bell is 100 times the RB Mendenhall ever was, but I think the starkest difference between the two was vision. Bell's vision is otherwordly, Mendenhall's was practically non-existent.


Last edited by W&M_Steeler on Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Quote:
I don't think he's a $12 million a year guy, but it will hurt to lose him.


Yeah,
Can't see the Steelers paying him $12 per. Knowing others need to be paid.

But maybe they can work out something creative knowing:
they can push Cam and Tuit money down the road.
and possibly Pouncey and Decastro money down the road.

Thats alot of money they can push to future years, knowing Bens $20+ million may only be on the books 2 or 3 years.

Then again,
AB will need an extension.
Shaz will need an extension - health willing.
Gilbert was looking for an extension.
Hargrave?

So will be tuff to give Bell big money knowing the injuries he has had and the pounding he has taken on top of the effectiveness of backs after they turn 27/28.
Bell will be 26 in February with 1500-1600 touches by that time.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Quote:
I deserve that.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I think Bell is 100 times the RB Mendenhall ever was, but I think the starkest difference between the two was vision. Bell's vision is otherwordly, Mendenhall's was practically non-existent.

Yup

All good W&M.
LOL.
Maybe the biggest difference between the 2 is DESIRE.
I think Lev Bell loves playing the game.
Mendy had other interests that were ahead of football.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:35 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
Le'Veon Bell still has his vision. He still has his power. And, that has enabled him to have some big days this year behind some good blocking. But, despite those big days, he's averaging 3.9 per carry. That's right. He's averaging a whole yard less per carry than he did his last 2 years.

It's not even the stats. You can see it with your eyes if you don't lie to yourself. He isn't exploding through the whole the same way he did in the past, and he isn't accelerating in the secondary the way he did in the past. He's essentially more of a bruising running back right now...albeit one with very good hands.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a great back. My point is that he's not worth a long term investment given where his body is right now.


I don't see what you see. After watching Matt Forte carry the Bears for years, I think Bell's a worth ton...just not all that he is asking.

I'd rather the money go to Bell than to secure a guy like Gilbert. Better to have 4 good lineman and a superstar RB than 5 good linemen and James Conner.

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 Post subject: Re: Le’Veon Bell
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:51 pm 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
franco32 wrote:
Le'Veon Bell still has his vision. He still has his power. And, that has enabled him to have some big days this year behind some good blocking. But, despite those big days, he's averaging 3.9 per carry. That's right. He's averaging a whole yard less per carry than he did his last 2 years.

It's not even the stats. You can see it with your eyes if you don't lie to yourself. He isn't exploding through the whole the same way he did in the past, and he isn't accelerating in the secondary the way he did in the past. He's essentially more of a bruising running back right now...albeit one with very good hands.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a great back. My point is that he's not worth a long term investment given where his body is right now.


I don't see what you see. After watching Matt Forte carry the Bears for years, I think Bell's a worth ton...just not all that he is asking.

I'd rather the money go to Bell than to secure a guy like Gilbert. Better to have 4 good lineman and a superstar RB than 5 good linemen and James Conner.
Conner has had zero opportunities to prove himself. I don't know how you can decide he's a JAG with seeing him get what, 5 touches? I definitely see a drop off in Bell's explosiveness. He never really had take it to the house speed, but now his assets are vision, power, and hands. And that vision comes with 30 carries a game. Somebody else needs to sacrifice their touches for him to get his groove.

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