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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:59 pm 
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:lol: Okay man. Keep being stunned by how "remarkable" it is when the Steelers and the rest of the league pass on 3rd and 2. I don't know why some people just can't admit when they're wrong and move on. Hell, I was wrong on Matt Elam, dead wrong on Johnny Manziel, convinced myself Jarvis Jones and Sammie Coates would be good, wanted Eddie Lacy over Bell... it feels good man. Exercise the demons. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:05 pm 
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TB wrote:
:lol: Okay man. Keep being stunned by how "remarkable" it is when the Steelers and the rest of the league pass on 3rd and 2. I don't know why some people just can't admit when they're wrong and move on. Hell, I was wrong on Matt Elam, dead wrong on Johnny Manziel, convinced myself Jarvis Jones and Sammie Coates would be good, wanted Eddie Lacy over Bell... it feels good man. Exercise the demons. :lol:


I hope I'm wrong about Mike Tomlin v. Bill Belichick, TB. That happens, I'll jump in the freezing Atlantic Ocean in February.

And again, you cite three teams' passing percentages on 3rd & 2, and equate it to the rest of the league, and at that, one of those teams does NOT match the Steelers percentage. Do the rest of the league if you really want to prove your point, whatever that point might be.

I was just surprised that the percentage was so high.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Times Matt Ryan has handed the ball off to a RB on 3rd and 2 this year? 0. That's 0% if you need a percentage. Passed every time other than running a failed WR reverse on 3rd and goal. How remarkable.

Aaron Rodgers? 100% of the time. Every single 3rd and 2 he passed. That's higher than 93% last time I checked. Stunning. I'm simply stunned, I tell ya. What is going on?!

You. Are. Wrong.
Let it go.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:35 pm 
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TB wrote:
Times Matt Ryan has handed the ball off to a RB on 3rd and 2 this year? 0. That's 0% if you need a percentage. Passed every time other than running a failed WR reverse on 3rd and goal. How remarkable.

Aaron Rodgers? 100% of the time. Every single 3rd and 2 he passed. That's higher than 93% last time I checked. Stunning. I'm simply stunned, I tell ya. What is going on?!

You. Are. Wrong.
Let it go.


And I'm wrong about exactly what, TB? Citing an article and saying that the percentage of time Steelers throw on 3rd & 2 seems high?? Gee....what an egregious error!! And keep at it, Dude...you only have 26 more teams to go until you complete your scholarly work.

Seems like the one that can't let this go is you.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Quote:
struggling red-zone (31st in the NFL)


Only stat that actually matters in this debate.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:46 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Citing an article and saying that the percentage of time Steelers throw on 3rd & 2 seems high?? Gee....what an egregious error!!


There we go, about time. It's okay to be wrong every now and then. Feel better?

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:51 pm 
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TB wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Citing an article and saying that the percentage of time Steelers throw on 3rd & 2 seems high?? Gee....what an egregious error!!


There we go, about time. It's okay to be wrong every now and then. Feel better?


I'm wrong plenty....just not this time. You seem to have missed that I didn't make any declaration that could be scored as right or wrong.

You're pretty fuckin' dense on this one....but that's not unusual.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:38 am 
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3rd & 2 or longer is a passing down. If you're running, you're not trying, or you think you're going to fool them.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:51 am 
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TB wrote:
:lol: Okay man. Keep being stunned by how "remarkable" it is when the Steelers and the rest of the league pass on 3rd and 2. I don't know why some people just can't admit when they're wrong and move on. Hell, I was wrong on Matt Elam, dead wrong on Johnny Manziel, convinced myself Jarvis Jones and Sammie Coates would be good, wanted Eddie Lacy over Bell... it feels good man. Exercise the demons. :lol:

That's "Exorcise"... ;)

Carry on...
:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:31 am 
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Steeledge wrote:
TB wrote:
:lol: Okay man. Keep being stunned by how "remarkable" it is when the Steelers and the rest of the league pass on 3rd and 2. I don't know why some people just can't admit when they're wrong and move on. Hell, I was wrong on Matt Elam, dead wrong on Johnny Manziel, convinced myself Jarvis Jones and Sammie Coates would be good, wanted Eddie Lacy over Bell... it feels good man. Exercise the demons. :lol:

That's "Exorcise"... ;)

Carry on...
:mrgreen:

Demons need to be in shape also... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:43 pm 
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:lol: Nice catch.

It's 2017. Even demons are counting calories and doing hot yoga.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Here is every 3rd and 2 play for the entire league:

http://pfref.com/tiny/16WH3

League-wide, teams pass 67.6% vs. run 32.4%

Interestingly, runs are more successful than passes - 58.7% vs. 53.5% converted to 1st downs.

The Steelers have run 12 passes and 1 rush and have converted 9 times (69.2%) which is well above league average. The Steelers also have 3 TDs on 3rd and 2.

On a side note, I use the Game Play Finder tool from PFR all the time to answer questions like this.....you all should check it out!


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:30 pm 
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TTP wrote:
Here is every 3rd and 2 play for the entire league:

http://pfref.com/tiny/16WH3

League-wide, teams pass 67.6% vs. run 32.4%

Interestingly, runs are more successful than passes - 58.7% vs. 53.5% converted to 1st downs.

The Steelers have run 12 passes and 1 rush and have converted 9 times (69.2%) which is well above league average. The Steelers also have 3 TDs on 3rd and 2.

On a side note, I use the Game Play Finder tool from PFR all the time to answer questions like this.....you all should check it out!

Thanks, TTP. Interesting stuff, and really like the Game Play Finder.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:26 pm 
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TTP wrote:
Here is every 3rd and 2 play for the entire league:

http://pfref.com/tiny/16WH3

League-wide, teams pass 67.6% vs. run 32.4%

Interestingly, runs are more successful than passes - 58.7% vs. 53.5% converted to 1st downs.

The Steelers have run 12 passes and 1 rush and have converted 9 times (69.2%) which is well above league average. The Steelers also have 3 TDs on 3rd and 2.

On a side note, I use the Game Play Finder tool from PFR all the time to answer questions like this.....you all should check it out!


Thanks TTP....appreciate the research. Sort of supports my initial statement, which wasn't judgemental, that the Steelers throwing on 92.3% of 3rd & 2s seemed to be kind of a high percentage.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.

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Dad showed up after work and according to her the entire hospital hears my dad yell you are not naming our son Hoss.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:42 pm 
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TTP wrote:
Here is every 3rd and 2 play for the entire league:

http://pfref.com/tiny/16WH3

League-wide, teams pass 67.6% vs. run 32.4%

Interestingly, runs are more successful than passes - 58.7% vs. 53.5% converted to 1st downs.

The Steelers have run 12 passes and 1 rush and have converted 9 times (69.2%) which is well above league average. The Steelers also have 3 TDs on 3rd and 2.

On a side note, I use the Game Play Finder tool from PFR all the time to answer questions like this.....you all should check it out!


I would not have guessed that the Steelers are better than league average at converting 3rd and 2. I cringe every time they have a 3rd or 4th with 1-3 yards to go. It never seems easy.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:52 pm 
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TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.


So NOW who can't admit they're wrong??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:53 pm 
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TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.

Oddly, Baltimore is #2 in rushing attempts yet #30 in conversion %. This is surprising because I've been told multiple times that Harbaugh better understands situational football.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.

Oddly, Baltimore is #2 in rushing attempts yet #30 in conversion %. This is surprising because I've been told multiple times that Harbaugh better understands situational football.


I bet you've not been told that even once.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:06 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
I bet you've not been told that even once.


http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=80
GreekSteel wrote:
You can say that all you want, and ill still tell you its Bullshit. In my eyes they are very similar, one guy has the edge motivating, the other is a much better game day tactician



http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
swissvale72 wrote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:23 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong about Mike Tomlin v. Bill Belichick, TB. That happens, I'll jump in the freezing Atlantic Ocean in February.


I am so holding you to this.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:40 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.


So NOW who can't admit they're wrong??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


You have literally brought 0 facts to this topic on your own. The league has been passing at around 70% on third and 2 going back to 2009. This is an average. The teams with shitty QBs generally run more than the average, the teams with competent QBs pass more. I know, crazy concept to understand.

The Steelers with BB have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Patriots with Brady have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Lions with Stafford have run on 3rd and 2, outside of a victory formation kneel, once. The Packers with Aaron Rodgers ran on 3rd and 2 zero times before he went down. The Falcons with Matt Ryan have run on 3rd and 2 once, wasn't even a halfback run, it went to Sanu. Drew Brees and the Saints? Twice. Jared Goff and the best offense in football? Twice. One more whole time than the Steelers. I don't give a flying fuck how that compares to Blake Bortles or Joe Flacco. The best QBs who aren't athletic freaks running all over the field pass in those situations literally just about every single time.

How surprising. How remarkable.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I bet you've not been told that even once.


http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=80
GreekSteel wrote:
You can say that all you want, and ill still tell you its Bullshit. In my eyes they are very similar, one guy has the edge motivating, the other is a much better game day tactician



http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
swissvale72 wrote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.


Still waiting for the situational football admonition. If you're going to make accusations, Pabst, make them precise. Obviously, I knew both Greek and I had posted comments about Harbaugh....knew neither one of us had made a reference to situational football.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:45 pm 
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TB wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.


So NOW who can't admit they're wrong??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


You have literally brought 0 facts to this topic on your own. The league has been passing at around 70% on third and 2 going back to 2009. This is an average. The teams with shitty QBs generally run more than the average, the teams with competent QBs pass more. I know, crazy concept to understand.

The Steelers with BB have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Patriots with Brady have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Lions with Stafford have run on 3rd and 2, outside of a victory formation kneel, once. The Packers with Aaron Rodgers ran on 3rd and 2 zero times before he went down. The Falcons with Matt Ryan have run on 3rd and 2 once, wasn't even a halfback run, it went to Sanu. Drew Brees and the Saints? Twice. Jared Goff and the best offense in football? Twice. One more whole time than the Steelers. I don't give a flying fuck how that compares to Blake Bortles or Joe Flacco. The best QBs who aren't athletic freaks running all over the field pass in those situations literally just about every single time.

How surprising. How remarkable.


TB once again making mountains of molehills. Go back to the beginning, Fuckstick. I merely referenced that stat reference by Adamski and said it seemed high. Guess what!! Compared to the league average, IT IS!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong about Mike Tomlin v. Bill Belichick, TB. That happens, I'll jump in the freezing Atlantic Ocean in February.


I am so holding you to this.


AFCCG is Sunday, January 21. If it's Steelers over Pats, I'll be in the surf at North Hampton, New Hampshire on Saturday, January 27 (unless the readership of this esteemed website specifically wants it to be February as I've written). I'll post video.


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