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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:42 pm 
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TTP wrote:
Here is every 3rd and 2 play for the entire league:

http://pfref.com/tiny/16WH3

League-wide, teams pass 67.6% vs. run 32.4%

Interestingly, runs are more successful than passes - 58.7% vs. 53.5% converted to 1st downs.

The Steelers have run 12 passes and 1 rush and have converted 9 times (69.2%) which is well above league average. The Steelers also have 3 TDs on 3rd and 2.

On a side note, I use the Game Play Finder tool from PFR all the time to answer questions like this.....you all should check it out!


I would not have guessed that the Steelers are better than league average at converting 3rd and 2. I cringe every time they have a 3rd or 4th with 1-3 yards to go. It never seems easy.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:52 pm 
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TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.


So NOW who can't admit they're wrong??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:53 pm 
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TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.

Oddly, Baltimore is #2 in rushing attempts yet #30 in conversion %. This is surprising because I've been told multiple times that Harbaugh better understands situational football.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.

Oddly, Baltimore is #2 in rushing attempts yet #30 in conversion %. This is surprising because I've been told multiple times that Harbaugh better understands situational football.


I bet you've not been told that even once.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:06 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
I bet you've not been told that even once.


http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=80
GreekSteel wrote:
You can say that all you want, and ill still tell you its Bullshit. In my eyes they are very similar, one guy has the edge motivating, the other is a much better game day tactician



http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
swissvale72 wrote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:23 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong about Mike Tomlin v. Bill Belichick, TB. That happens, I'll jump in the freezing Atlantic Ocean in February.


I am so holding you to this.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:40 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.


So NOW who can't admit they're wrong??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


You have literally brought 0 facts to this topic on your own. The league has been passing at around 70% on third and 2 going back to 2009. This is an average. The teams with shitty QBs generally run more than the average, the teams with competent QBs pass more. I know, crazy concept to understand.

The Steelers with BB have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Patriots with Brady have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Lions with Stafford have run on 3rd and 2, outside of a victory formation kneel, once. The Packers with Aaron Rodgers ran on 3rd and 2 zero times before he went down. The Falcons with Matt Ryan have run on 3rd and 2 once, wasn't even a halfback run, it went to Sanu. Drew Brees and the Saints? Twice. Jared Goff and the best offense in football? Twice. One more whole time than the Steelers. I don't give a flying fuck how that compares to Blake Bortles or Joe Flacco. The best QBs who aren't athletic freaks running all over the field pass in those situations literally just about every single time.

How surprising. How remarkable.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I bet you've not been told that even once.


http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=80
GreekSteel wrote:
You can say that all you want, and ill still tell you its Bullshit. In my eyes they are very similar, one guy has the edge motivating, the other is a much better game day tactician



http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
swissvale72 wrote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.


Still waiting for the situational football admonition. If you're going to make accusations, Pabst, make them precise. Obviously, I knew both Greek and I had posted comments about Harbaugh....knew neither one of us had made a reference to situational football.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:45 pm 
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TB wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
TB wrote:
Not surprising that most of the teams with the most rushes have incredibly mobile QBs (Dak, Cam, Wilson, Alex Smith). Doubt many of those "rushes" are RB handoffs and are more QB scrambles on pass plays or designed QB runs. Steelers don't even pass the most, that is the Cards. If you have a competent QB who isn't a freak athlete you're passing a vast majority of the time and it should be hardly surpriising.


So NOW who can't admit they're wrong??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


You have literally brought 0 facts to this topic on your own. The league has been passing at around 70% on third and 2 going back to 2009. This is an average. The teams with shitty QBs generally run more than the average, the teams with competent QBs pass more. I know, crazy concept to understand.

The Steelers with BB have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Patriots with Brady have run on 3rd and 2 once. The Lions with Stafford have run on 3rd and 2, outside of a victory formation kneel, once. The Packers with Aaron Rodgers ran on 3rd and 2 zero times before he went down. The Falcons with Matt Ryan have run on 3rd and 2 once, wasn't even a halfback run, it went to Sanu. Drew Brees and the Saints? Twice. Jared Goff and the best offense in football? Twice. One more whole time than the Steelers. I don't give a flying fuck how that compares to Blake Bortles or Joe Flacco. The best QBs who aren't athletic freaks running all over the field pass in those situations literally just about every single time.

How surprising. How remarkable.


TB once again making mountains of molehills. Go back to the beginning, Fuckstick. I merely referenced that stat reference by Adamski and said it seemed high. Guess what!! Compared to the league average, IT IS!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong about Mike Tomlin v. Bill Belichick, TB. That happens, I'll jump in the freezing Atlantic Ocean in February.


I am so holding you to this.


AFCCG is Sunday, January 21. If it's Steelers over Pats, I'll be in the surf at North Hampton, New Hampshire on Saturday, January 27 (unless the readership of this esteemed website specifically wants it to be February as I've written). I'll post video.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:51 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I bet you've not been told that even once.


http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=80
GreekSteel wrote:
You can say that all you want, and ill still tell you its Bullshit. In my eyes they are very similar, one guy has the edge motivating, the other is a much better game day tactician



http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
swissvale72 wrote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.


Still waiting for the situational football admonition. If you're going to make accusations, Pabst, make them precise. Obviously, I knew both Greek and I had posted comments about Harbaugh....knew neither one of us had made a reference to situational football.

Game management and tactics somehow do not include situational football. That's....wow :roll:

I really don't mind difference of opinion and debate, but please don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Ironically, that's exactly what you're doing, Pabst. Fact is, you wrote that there were multiple references to situational football when there were none. Don't be so lazy in your writing. Doesn't take much effort to quote accurately.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:17 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Ironically, that's exactly what you're doing, Pabst. Fact is, you wrote that there were multiple references to situational football when there were none. Don't be so lazy in your writing. Doesn't take much effort to quote accurately.

You're the one who's trying to escape via technicality throughout this entire thread. I quoted you verbatim. If you want to pretend that 'tactics' and 'game management' somehow don't include situational football, then you're being a dishonest asshat and its not worth arguing.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Ironically, that's exactly what you're doing, Pabst. Fact is, you wrote that there were multiple references to situational football when there were none. Don't be so lazy in your writing. Doesn't take much effort to quote accurately.

You're the one who's trying to escape via technicality throughout this entire thread. I quoted you verbatim. If you want to pretend that 'tactics' and 'game management' somehow don't include situational football, then you're being a dishonest asshat and its not worth arguing.


I'll help you out a little, Pabstsmear. Only a dumbfuck would not know that verbatim means word for word. Here's a link for your education:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/verbatim


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:42 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Only a dumbfuck would not know that verbatim means word for word

Are you drunk or just this dense?

This:
Quote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

Is a word for word quote from here:http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
Yours is the second from the bottom. Hence, I quoted you verbatim.

The issue here is you pretending that 'game management' does not include 'situational football'. You are making a weaselly, semantic argument after being called out on your BS.

If I were to go back and say "Oddly, Baltimore is #2 in rushing attempts yet #30 in conversion %. This is surprising because I've been told multiple times that Harbaugh is a better game manager and tactician." It would not change the inherent meaning of my post. You are wrong. Admit it or fuck off.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong about Mike Tomlin v. Bill Belichick, TB. That happens, I'll jump in the freezing Atlantic Ocean in February.


I am so holding you to this.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkVximqdvw

I'm in there somewhere

Every 1/1

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Only a dumbfuck would not know that verbatim means word for word

Are you drunk or just this dense?

This:
Quote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

Is a word for word quote from here:http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
Yours is the second from the bottom. Hence, I quoted you verbatim.

The issue here is you pretending that 'game management' does not include 'situational football'. You are making a weaselly, semantic argument after being called out on your BS.

If I were to go back and say "Oddly, Baltimore is #2 in rushing attempts yet #30 in conversion %. This is surprising because I've been told multiple times that Harbaugh is a better game manager and tactician." It would not change the inherent meaning of my post. You are wrong. Admit it or fuck off.


Hey Fuckface....I knew what Greek and I had said. I knew we never made a reference to situational football once, let alone multiple times. And then...you're so fuckin' stupid, you don't even know what verbatim means.

Now, if you post that I said that you are so fuckin' stupid, and suggest that you're quoting me verbatim...you would be right!!


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:30 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Only a dumbfuck would not know that verbatim means word for word

Are you drunk or just this dense?

This:
Quote:
seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

Is a word for word quote from here:http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9505&start=110
Yours is the second from the bottom. Hence, I quoted you verbatim.

The issue here is you pretending that 'game management' does not include 'situational football'. You are making a weaselly, semantic argument after being called out on your BS.

If I were to go back and say "Oddly, Baltimore is #2 in rushing attempts yet #30 in conversion %. This is surprising because I've been told multiple times that Harbaugh is a better game manager and tactician." It would not change the inherent meaning of my post. You are wrong. Admit it or fuck off.


Hey Fuckface....I knew what Greek and I had said. I knew we never made a reference to situational football once, let alone multiple times. And then...you're so fuckin' stupid, you don't even know what verbatim means.

Now, if you post that I said that you are so fuckin' stupid, and suggest that you're quoting me verbatim...you would be right!!

Can someone decipher this? I'm asking honestly - what is Swiss' point here?

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:01 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong about Mike Tomlin v. Bill Belichick, TB. That happens, I'll jump in the freezing Atlantic Ocean in February.


I am so holding you to this.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkVximqdvw

I'm in there somewhere

Every 1/1

Cool, which one are you?

Just kidding.

You are clearly a nut.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:51 am 
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It's actually an awesome time

Getting undressed just before the run into the water can be tough

But you drink before and after

Great way to start the new year

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd down O
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:34 am 
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Actually, after reading the article Swiss referenced several times, I’m not sure what the author’s intent was other than to vomit up a series of factoids.

My personal opinion, though (seemingly backed up by the facts posted in this thread), is that teams should consider mixing in the run or the threat of the run more on 3rd and 2.

And that just because “every other team” is doing something doesn’t mean we should...or that it’s the best thing to do.

Coaches in the NFL are generally overly-conservative “followers”...loathe to go against “conventional wisdom”.

Many times because if they fail when doing so, they are pilloried, and their job security is usually so tenuous.

One would hope someone with reasonable job security like Mike Tomlin wouldn’t be such a follower...but it seems he is.

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