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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:12 pm 
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and that deep throw to Bryant was on the money-- Bryant ran around the DB instead of continuing his route the way JuJuSS did later. If Bryant and Ab (on the play where he was flagged for OPI) just keep running up the field instead of looping or slowing down to push off, that's two likely completions.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Haley now says he was yelling at another "coach." Whoever the fuck that might be.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/ha ... lisberger/

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:34 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Haley now says he was yelling at another "coach." Whoever the fuck that might be.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/ha ... lisberger/

reportedly Danny Smith, for unknown reasons

I just read that multiple players were lined up wrong on the play, not all of them came to the sideline, then the team lined up for same play, again with multiple players misaligned.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:35 pm 
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I'd say anytime my D can hold the other team to 17 points or less I'm pretty happy. If our O, with the talent it has on it - even with a shitty OC, can't regularly score more than 24 points, I'd say the D is bailing out the O, more than the other way around.


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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:41 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Haley now says he was yelling at another "coach." Whoever the fuck that might be.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/ha ... lisberger/

reportedly Danny Smith, for unknown reasons

I just read that multiple players were lined up wrong on the play, not all of them came to the sideline, then the team lined up for same play, again with multiple players misaligned.

As I stated on Sunday....My first live reaction was that he was yelling at Fichtner (was right there when Haley was yelling in his direction and kind of acted like it was him). I was wondering if he or Tomlin lets Fichtner have a say-so in 2 pt. play calls/designs or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:54 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Haley now says he was yelling at another "coach." Whoever the fuck that might be.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/ha ... lisberger/

reportedly Danny Smith, for unknown reasons

I just read that multiple players were lined up wrong on the play, not all of them came to the sideline, then the team lined up for same play, again with multiple players misaligned.

As I stated on Sunday....My first live reaction was that he was yelling at Fichtner (was right there when Haley was yelling in his direction and kind of acted like it was him). I was wondering if he or Tomlin lets Fichtner have a say-so in 2 pt. play calls/designs or something.


I think everyone is missing the point

How in the fuck is no one apparently on the same page whether we're gonna go for 2 as soon as we hit the Red Zone?

It should have been abundantly clear about 3 plays prior to Vance hauling in the pass

Tomlin: If we get the TD we're going for 2.

Then he should have told Todd/Randy at the same time who had responsibility for the 2 point play


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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:51 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
I'd say anytime my D can hold the other team to 17 points or less I'm pretty happy. If our O, with the talent it has on it - even with a shitty OC, can't regularly score more than 24 points, I'd say the D is bailing out the O, more than the other way around.

Except that we all know and recognize that the offense is working its ass off to protect the D. Using all the play clock, running the football with impunity. Short pass game with lots of completions. Playing for possession. This team truly works symbiotically.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:05 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
DP39 wrote:
I'd say anytime my D can hold the other team to 17 points or less I'm pretty happy. If our O, with the talent it has on it - even with a shitty OC, can't regularly score more than 24 points, I'd say the D is bailing out the O, more than the other way around.

Except that we all know and recognize that the offense is working its ass off to protect the D. Using al the play clock, running the football with impunity. Short pass game with lots of completions. Playing for possession. This team truly works symbiotically.

Then your issue should be as much about the overall offensive strategy than the play calling. It's clearly Tomlin's mandate to slow things down. But I'm sure that's all Haley's fault.

And you're right about the deep ball to Bryant. It hit him in stride, but at no point in time did he have inside position on the CB. The CB ran that route for Bryant. Bad decision by Ben to throw and expectedly bad play from Bryant. I'm not sure he's ever attacked the ball in the air, he always lets it come to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:37 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Haley now says he was yelling at another "coach." Whoever the fuck that might be.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/ha ... lisberger/


Fichtner.

Tomlin overruled Haley and went for 2. Then Ben and Fichtner called the 2 pt play, per Ben.

Haley was yelling to "get the fucking play in."

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Haley now says he was yelling at another "coach." Whoever the fuck that might be.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/ha ... lisberger/

reportedly Danny Smith, for unknown reasons

I just read that multiple players were lined up wrong on the play, not all of them came to the sideline, then the team lined up for same play, again with multiple players misaligned.

As I stated on Sunday....My first live reaction was that he was yelling at Fichtner (was right there when Haley was yelling in his direction and kind of acted like it was him). I was wondering if he or Tomlin lets Fichtner have a say-so in 2 pt. play calls/designs or something.


Fichtner designed most/all of their 2 pt plays.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:03 pm 
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seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
DP39 wrote:
I'd say anytime my D can hold the other team to 17 points or less I'm pretty happy. If our O, with the talent it has on it - even with a shitty OC, can't regularly score more than 24 points, I'd say the D is bailing out the O, more than the other way around.

Except that we all know and recognize that the offense is working its ass off to protect the D. Using al the play clock, running the football with impunity. Short pass game with lots of completions. Playing for possession. This team truly works symbiotically.

Then your issue should be as much about the overall offensive strategy than the play calling. It's clearly Tomlin's mandate to slow things down. But I'm sure that's all Haley's fault.

And you're right about the deep ball to Bryant. It hit him in stride, but at no point in time did he have inside position on the CB. The CB ran that route for Bryant. Bad decision by Ben to throw and expectedly bad play from Bryant. I'm not sure he's ever attacked the ball in the air, he always lets it come to him.

the CB was outside and deep when the throw was let go. Bryant ran around him, to the outside to tray and get to the ball in the air.

And, yes, I assume Tomlin is the one who wants to protect the D.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:23 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
the CB was outside and deep when the throw was let go. Bryant ran around him, to the outside to tray and get to the ball in the air.

And, yes, I assume Tomlin is the one who wants to protect the D.

At no point during the route did Bryant have inside leverage on the CB. Just an ill advised throw coupled with poor effort by Bryant to prevent the INT.

I'm glad you're coming around to the idea that Haley isn't the main reason this offense isn't performing the way we though it would at the beginning of the season. Everyone has played a key part in the results.


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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:43 am 
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seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
the CB was outside and deep when the throw was let go. Bryant ran around him, to the outside to tray and get to the ball in the air.

And, yes, I assume Tomlin is the one who wants to protect the D.

At no point during the route did Bryant have inside leverage on the CB. Just an ill advised throw coupled with poor effort by Bryant to prevent the INT.

I'm glad you're coming around to the idea that Haley isn't the main reason this offense isn't performing the way we though it would at the beginning of the season. Everyone has played a key part in the results.

Mostly because they're sick of his shit. When three stud players on your offense are publicly carping, what do you think they say and do behind closed doors?

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:12 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Mostly because their sick of his shit. When three stud players on your offense are publicly carping, what do you think they say and do behind closed doors?

How they feel and what they say about him has no bearing. I see strategy, play calling, play design, and execution issues continually hold this team back from scoring more points. My entire point has been the blame (or majority of it) shouldn't fall on one individual.


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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:35 am 
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seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Mostly because their sick of his shit. When three stud players on your offense are publicly carping, what do you think they say and do behind closed doors?

How they feel and what they say about him has no bearing. I see strategy, play calling, play design, and execution issues continually hold this team back from scoring more points. My entire point has been the blame (or majority of it) shouldn't fall on one individual.
I agree with this completely. There are too many moving parts to blame one singular player or coach. But people like to run their narratives and agendas. I view it like an tonal equalizer in audio. Some games, the OC fucks up and gets turned to 7 or 8 on the blame scale. Others it's the QB, or OLine, or combination. Etc Etc. Sometimes you can be too good or have tremendous potential, and trip on your own feet based on a number of factors. The fact that Tomlin has this team at 7-2 is amazing considering how out of sync they are on offense, but a few key players on defense supplemented the success.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:11 pm 
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seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Mostly because they're sick of his shit. When three stud players on your offense are publicly carping, what do you think they say and do behind closed doors?

How they feel and what they say about him has no bearing. I see strategy, play calling, play design, and execution issues continually hold this team back from scoring more points. My entire point has been the blame (or majority of it) shouldn't fall on one individual.

fair

but most of it should :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:06 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Mostly because they're sick of his shit. When three stud players on your offense are publicly carping, what do you think they say and do behind closed doors?

How they feel and what they say about him has no bearing. I see strategy, play calling, play design, and execution issues continually hold this team back from scoring more points. My entire point has been the blame (or majority of it) shouldn't fall on one individual.

fair

but most of it should :lol:

:roll:
...highly doubtful it's the one YOU think it should fall on though, B2B

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"Todd Haley is not the inept coach you're looking for..."

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:11 pm 
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The head coach and the QB have records that extend beyond the OC and which can be measured, at least in part, against what the OC has put on tape. You can choose to ignore that, but they're both much more successful and elite than the OC is by any measure. My money is on the guy squandering the talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:14 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The head coach and the QB have records that extend beyond the OC and which can be measured, at least in part, against what the OC has put on tape. You can choose to ignore that, but they're both much more successful and elite than the OC is by any measure. My money is on the guy squandering the talent.

:lol:
Neither the HC nor the QB have records that extend beyond the program, though.
I'll give you a moment to let that sink in...

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:32 pm 
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All the more reason Haley should be doing a better job-- he has all the pieces now, and a great organization.

Even Tomlin excelled as an excellent coach elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Steeledge wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The head coach and the QB have records that extend beyond the OC and which can be measured, at least in part, against what the OC has put on tape. You can choose to ignore that, but they're both much more successful and elite than the OC is by any measure. My money is on the guy squandering the talent.

:lol:
Neither the HC nor the QB have records that extend beyond the program, though.
I'll give you a moment to let that sink in...

You appear to think you've made a devastating argument. Why?

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Steel Drummer wrote:
Steeledge wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The head coach and the QB have records that extend beyond the OC and which can be measured, at least in part, against what the OC has put on tape. You can choose to ignore that, but they're both much more successful and elite than the OC is by any measure. My money is on the guy squandering the talent.

:lol:
Neither the HC nor the QB have records that extend beyond the program, though.
I'll give you a moment to let that sink in...

You appear to think you've made a devastating argument. Why?

I don't know...
flawed perception, maybe?

because I don't think anything of the sort.
farbeit for me to think too much of myself to be above improvement...

the records of these "elites" speak for themselves when kept in context, though

Still think Ben is a first ballot HOFer?
I certainly HOPE so!

But we shall see...

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:49 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
All the more reason Haley should be doing a better job-- he has all the pieces now, and a great organization.

Even Tomlin excelled as an excellent coach elsewhere.

...as a SECONDARY coach.

ONE year as DC does not a RECORD make!

Other than that, you got nothing to go on to make such a far-fetched, ridiculous claim!
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Steeledge wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
All the more reason Haley should be doing a better job-- he has all the pieces now, and a great organization.

Even Tomlin excelled as an excellent coach elsewhere.

...as a SECONDARY coach.

ONE year as DC does not a RECORD make!

Other than that, you got nothing to go on to make such a far-fetched, ridiculous claim!
:roll:


When you're blinded by irrational hate it's easy to look past the obvious when trying to argue that Tomlin is a bad coach and/or a failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Haley: Fuck you Ben
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Steeledge wrote:
... flawed perception, maybe?

because I don't think anything of the sort.
farbeit for me to think too much of myself to be above improvement...

the records of these "elites" speak for themselves when kept in context, though

Still think Ben is a first ballot HOFer?
I certainly HOPE so!

But we shall see...

Fair enough. Maybe my perception is flawed.

But let's get back to the argument that being with only one team lowers the ceiling of your achievement. I don't see it.

Seems to me that, first of all, spending a long career with one team is hardly a knock. Guarantees that you've been successful, in fact. If the argument is that the Steelers are a premier organization and Tomlin and Ben might not look the same without them, that's true. But it's also true that they're a premier organization because they make mostly good decisions, like keeping superior QBs and coaches around for their careers.

I should add that:

1. I'm not as down on Haley as a lot of people here, and
2. Like you I hope but don't know that Ben is a first-ballot HOFer.

But there's no way Haley is as good a coach as Tomlin.

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