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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:18 am 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Good is the enemy of great.


Perfect is the enemy of great.

30 points a game is the enemy of great football.

With a great defense; score first, score twice and employ the blockade and starve them out. I am happy with it.

I enjoy the run game so much more than the passing game with Bell and Bettis. 30 points a game is too much. It takes the team too far away from what they are trying to execute. I think if you have a set of principles on offense you would never have score 30 or score every drive as a principle.

If you are running a professional football team, the offense would be something you can execute weekly, something that is repeatable, something that is controllable, and something that looks like the previous week in which you can employ improvement methodology.

I don’t get how you practice scoring 30. I get practicing red zone, practicing 2 minute offense, practicing situations. You can’t practice scoring 30. You can also practice eating the clock, 3rd down conversions, QB sneaks, middle of the field plays, staying in bounds, audibles and snapping with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. You can practice 5 minute drives to end the 2nd half and 5 minute drives to end the 4th qtr.

Scoring 30 is more luck than good.

Great defense, score twice, Go conservative and eat the clock. There is more control what you can control in that mentality than in focusing on scoring 30.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:40 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
The questions you're posing have nothing to do with your misquoting him, essentially making shit up that he's saying.


I didn't misquote anyone. I simply explained what they were saying. You disagree, and I disagree with your disagreement.

Again, show me where I misquoted anyone. You and I and everyone who read that article know I didn't. So spare me that bullshit.


Let's start here. Did he say these things that you have said he said?:

*You tell me that with a lead and the defense playing well, your main job is not to turn the ball over and I'd probably fire you on the spot.

*He basically said he often calls plays with possession first and foremost in mind (...and YOU have interpreted possession to mean an absence of turnovers, rather than maintaining control of the ball and the clock).


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:18 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
Can someone please quote our O vs D rankings in '08?

How about '05?

And anything before would be welcome.

2017. 5-2
2010. 5-1
2008. 21-1
2005. 8-3
2004. 8-3


Thanks. Seems about right on schedule.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:48 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Good is the enemy of great.


Perfect is the enemy of great.

30 points a game is the enemy of great football.

With a great defense; score first, score twice and employ the blockade and starve them out. I am happy with it.

I enjoy the run game so much more than the passing game with Bell and Bettis. 30 points a game is too much. It takes the team too far away from what they are trying to execute. I think if you have a set of principles on offense you would never have score 30 or score every drive as a principle.

If you are running a professional football team, the offense would be something you can execute weekly, something that is repeatable, something that is controllable, and something that looks like the previous week in which you can employ improvement methodology.

I don’t get how you practice scoring 30. I get practicing red zone, practicing 2 minute offense, practicing situations. You can’t practice scoring 30. You can also practice eating the clock, 3rd down conversions, QB sneaks, middle of the field plays, staying in bounds, audibles and snapping with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. You can practice 5 minute drives to end the 2nd half and 5 minute drives to end the 4th qtr.

Scoring 30 is more luck than good.

Great defense, score twice, Go conservative and eat the clock. There is more control what you can control in that mentality than in focusing on scoring 30.

With the offence we have & especially if MB regains his previous form, is one touchdown a quarter & one field goal along the way really too much to expect regularly? Perhaps, we could just hire a new assistant offensive coordinator for better red zone direction. It's pretty clear that Haley needs significant help in that area.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:23 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Good is the enemy of great.


Perfect is the enemy of great.

30 points a game is the enemy of great football.

With a great defense; score first, score twice and employ the blockade and starve them out. I am happy with it.

I enjoy the run game so much more than the passing game with Bell and Bettis. 30 points a game is too much. It takes the team too far away from what they are trying to execute. I think if you have a set of principles on offense you would never have score 30 or score every drive as a principle.

If you are running a professional football team, the offense would be something you can execute weekly, something that is repeatable, something that is controllable, and something that looks like the previous week in which you can employ improvement methodology.

I don’t get how you practice scoring 30. I get practicing red zone, practicing 2 minute offense, practicing situations. You can’t practice scoring 30. You can also practice eating the clock, 3rd down conversions, QB sneaks, middle of the field plays, staying in bounds, audibles and snapping with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. You can practice 5 minute drives to end the 2nd half and 5 minute drives to end the 4th qtr.

Scoring 30 is more luck than good.

Great defense, score twice, Go conservative and eat the clock. There is more control what you can control in that mentality than in focusing on scoring 30.



This is a good post. I think sometimes we get spoiled as Steelers fans. Give me 24 points and a situation where we have the ball last and let our offensive line work. I don't want that defense on the field more than 25 minutes of a game and anything under 20 is a gift. One 7 minute drive in the second half that ends in a TD kills any game or at least makes the opposing offense so one dimensional our defense can basically just stack pressures, sacks, and int from QBs who are trying to avoid the two

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
I didn't misquote anyone. I simply explained what they were saying. You disagree, and I disagree with your disagreement.

Poor Kodiak. Yes, you clearly did. Never once in this thread did I praise Haley or apologize for him. I simply pointed out that there is more to offensive strategy than reckless abandon at all times. A concept that apparently escapes you. We get it, you don't like Haley. Cool. Now please look back at all the nonsense you've been spewing, get a grip and stop proving to everyone here that you're the village idiot. That is all.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:50 pm 
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Smashmouth21 wrote:
Poor Kodiak. Yes, you clearly did.


Show me where I misquoted anyone (pretty hard to do when the quote was cut and pasted from the article).

You said something stupid, and then doubled down on it. Quit while you're behind.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Show me where I misquoted anyone.


Kodiak wrote:
You keep matriculating the ball you score points. It's not rocket science, despite your's and Haley's clear efforts to excuse under-performance.

Yet another Kodiak fail. I never made any excuses for the offense's underperformance. Now I don't have time to tutor you in reading comprehension so please move on to your next 5-star rant. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:21 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Let's start here. Did he say these things that you have said he said?:


Umm, did I say he said those things, or is it reading into what he said? I mean, that's usually what we do - we analyze what was said and wasn't said.

Disagree with what I read into or inferred from his comments, but don't try to support your argument by claiming I misquoted him because I didn't.

Thanks for clearing all that up boss.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Smashmouth21 wrote:
Yet another Kodiak fail. I never made any excuses for the offense's underperformance. Now I don't have time to tutor you in reading comprehension so please move on to your next 5-star rant. Thanks.


Umm, you sure as hell did because you're defending Haley like he's you buddy or your husband. You're defending the underperformance without making excuses for it......rrrrrriiiiiiiigggggghhhhtttttttt......

Still waiting for all these misquotes you claim I made. Like I said, take your bullshit and shove it back up where it came out of.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Well this is fun

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Smashmouth21 wrote:
Yet another Kodiak fail. I never made any excuses for the offense's underperformance. Now I don't have time to tutor you in reading comprehension so please move on to your next 5-star rant. Thanks.


Umm, you sure as hell did because you're defending Haley like he's you buddy or your husband. You're defending the underperformance without making excuses for it......rrrrrriiiiiiiigggggghhhhtttttttt......

Still waiting for all these misquotes you claim I made. Like I said, take your bullshit and shove it back up where it came out of.

Again you have yet to show even once where I defended Haley. You can't because I didn't. You're the one stroking yourself while you go on and on about Todd. Not me.

And way to hang onto semantics like some kind of loser merit badge. I can see you telling yourself: "Well I used the actual quote first so the fact that literally everything I said after that and attributed to others was dead wrong doesn't matter. I didn't technically misquote anyone just completely mischaracterized their position. So that's not the same!" What a fucktard.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:38 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Well this is fun

You're right. Sorry. Letting the stupid get to me. I'll be the bigger person.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:54 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
Can someone please quote our O vs D rankings in '08?

How about '05?

And anything before would be welcome.

2017. 5-2
2010. 5-1
2008. 21-1
2005. 8-3
2004. 8-3


'79. 1-5

'78 our QB led the league in TD throws and was voted league MVP


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:05 pm 
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NE Patriots 2011 season thru last season...

SB
AFCCG
AFCCG
SB
AFCCG
SB

Points per game...

32.3
33.9
27.9
30.4
28.3
28.7


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
NE Patriots 2011 season thru last season...

SB
AFCCG
AFCCG
SB
AFCCG
SB

Points per game...

32.3
33.9
27.9
30.4
28.3
28.7



But but but, we are a better team if we score 20 and play good defense.

Nonsense.

It’s not the running that limits our scoring. It’s the purposeful intent to limit opportunities by prioritizing other things that limits our scoring. It’s the 3rd & 9 runs in the red zone and settling for a FG rather than trying for the first. Or the times we are down close yet don’t even attempt a pass into the EZ.

We fiddle fart around far too often which limits opportunities.

Scoring points wins games. Not able to score points loses games.

Being multifaceted on offense increases your chances at scoring more points.

This is all magnified in the postseason.

The league is geared toward offenses and scoring. We’ve see too many times what happens when our run game is used to the point of becoming a crutch and some team comes along and shuts it down.

Rinse repeat.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:59 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Good is the enemy of great.


Perfect is the enemy of great.

30 points a game is the enemy of great football.

With a great defense; score first, score twice and employ the blockade and starve them out. I am happy with it.

I enjoy the run game so much more than the passing game with Bell and Bettis. 30 points a game is too much. It takes the team too far away from what they are trying to execute. I think if you have a set of principles on offense you would never have score 30 or score every drive as a principle.

If you are running a professional football team, the offense would be something you can execute weekly, something that is repeatable, something that is controllable, and something that looks like the previous week in which you can employ improvement methodology.

I don’t get how you practice scoring 30. I get practicing red zone, practicing 2 minute offense, practicing situations. You can’t practice scoring 30. You can also practice eating the clock, 3rd down conversions, QB sneaks, middle of the field plays, staying in bounds, audibles and snapping with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. You can practice 5 minute drives to end the 2nd half and 5 minute drives to end the 4th qtr.

Scoring 30 is more luck than good.

Great defense, score twice, Go conservative and eat the clock. There is more control what you can control in that mentality than in focusing on scoring 30.


1. There is no reason the passing game cannot be as repeatable as the running game.

2. Modern NFL makes comebacks to easy. You help a defense more by making sure they play with a lead.

3. Being willing to attack and put pressure on safeties (not just deep throws down the sidelines) helps the running game. The conservative gameplan the coach want to execute is actually counter productive in that it allows safeties to attack downhill.

This post is one of those that sounds well-reasoned on the surface, but when you peel back the logical underpinnings it quickly falls apart.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
NE Patriots 2011 season thru last season...

SB
AFCCG
AFCCG
SB
AFCCG
SB

Points per game...

32.3
33.9
27.9
30.4
28.3
28.7


Not sure what these data points mean. I am taking it they are an unbiased view of what NE does.

What is more likely to happen; we beat Ne going point for point, or we come up with a defensive game plan and offensive game plan that limits their points?


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:00 pm 
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We can’t score 30 because guys like Rogers drop perfect TD passes and Ben will eventually turn the ball over and fuck us.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:08 am 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Havoc wrote:
NE Patriots 2011 season thru last season...

SB
AFCCG
AFCCG
SB
AFCCG
SB

Points per game...

32.3
33.9
27.9
30.4
28.3
28.7


Not sure what these data points mean. I am taking it they are an unbiased view of what NE does.

What is more likely to happen; we beat Ne going point for point, or we come up with a defensive game plan and offensive game plan that limits their points?


LakecrestSteeler wrote:
30 points a game is the enemy of great football.


There is more than 1 way to skin that Lombardi cat.

It's possible for a Steelers qb to lead the league in TD throws and win the SB. We have been there and done that ('78). It's possible for the Steelers to lead the league in scoring offense and win the SB. We have been there and done that ('79).

The version of Ben that we had on the field along with the Alien version of Bryant...

Our offense was at it's best passing the football vertically mixing in the run. The passing game set up the run game. That is how we buried some teams.

I thought we would have that version of Ben plus the Alien coming into this season. There was good reason to believe we could get back to that formula and be one of the best offenses in the league (and most dynamic).

After watching this team yesterday, I am starting to change my thinking on how to get the most out of this current group. I'm not sure what we are going to get from Ben at this point.

I am more concerned about points per possession than points per game.

I am now more open to your formula with the current group than I was to start the season. But let's see how it plays out the rest of the way.

I posted in last week's podcast thread that I am ok with running the football to set up the pass as long as we are aggressive and use the entire field when we do throw the football. I am satisfied with the looks the coaches gave Ben in the passing game yesterday.


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