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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Cranking out first downs is hardly aggressive, or not "throttled down". You keep matriculating the ball you score points. It's not rocket science, despite your's and Haley's clear efforts to excuse under-performance. That's loser talk. Whether trying to put points on the board, or shorten the game and keep your defense off the field, the foundation of both is getting first downs and keep driving.

All offenses try to get first downs and score. All defenses try to stop them. It's the game we watch. Dumb post.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:59 pm 
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Can someone please quote our O vs D rankings in '08?

How about '05?

And anything before would be welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:51 am 
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Smashmouth21 wrote:
All offenses try to get first downs and score. All defenses try to stop them. It's the game we watch. Dumb post.


LMFAO. Are you Haley's cuckold bitch?

This is not what he said in that article. He basically said he often calls plays with possession first and foremost in mind. That's retarded.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:53 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Smashmouth21 wrote:
All offenses try to get first downs and score. All defenses try to stop them. It's the game we watch. Dumb post.


LMFAO. Are you Haley's cuckold bitch?

This is not what he said in that article. He basically said he often calls plays with possession first and foremost in mind. That's retarded.


You're really taking alot of liberties with what he said, Kodiak.

I can’t say that [is our identity] but I can’t say I’m not pleased with how we played,” Haley said of the past two games against Kansas City and Cincinnati.

“We’re winning games, I’m excited how our defense is playing and that affects some of the decisions we make.”

“Our defense is playing good football,’’ Haley said. “That can affect the way we do things and the decisions we make. This is a new year, new team, a bunch of new guys.”

My problem is that we're not necessarily doing what Haley says we're doing when we're heaving low percentage passes on yard-to-go. Seems to me like you're interpreting possession as meaning not turning the ball over; I would interpret possession as meaning retaining possession by moving the sticks, thus moving the clock.

I was not a huge Bill Cowher fan, but the most impressive stat of his career was having only once lost a game where his team led by 11 points or more (though he lost a 10-point lead more than once, including twice in playoff games, the infamous '94 AFCCG most notably). Bill Belichick, on the other hand, for all his greatness, has lost quite a few games in that circumstance, most often, from my recollection by keeping his foot on the gas, focusing on scoring more rather than simply possessing the football and moving the clock.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:08 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
You're really taking alot of liberties with what he said, Kodiak.



I'm really not.

You want to point out or theorize things Haley said that inspire confidence? You want to cite things he said as evidence he gets it? Are there quotes in that article that made you glad Haley is the OC? Seriously?

And let me point out I was a big Haley defender and apologist his first 2-3 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:11 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
You're really taking alot of liberties with what he said, Kodiak.



I'm really not.

You want to point out or theorize things Haley said that inspire confidence? You want to cite things he said as evidence he gets it? Are there quotes in that article that made you glad Haley is the OC? Seriously?

And let me point out I was a big Haley defender and apologist his first 2-3 years.


The questions you're posing have nothing to do with your misquoting him, essentially making shit up that he's saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:04 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
The questions you're posing have nothing to do with your misquoting him, essentially making shit up that he's saying.


I didn't misquote anyone. I simply explained what they were saying. You disagree, and I disagree with your disagreement.

Again, show me where I misquoted anyone. You and I and everyone who read that article know I didn't. So spare me that bullshit.

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Last edited by Kodiak on Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:05 am 
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VanWilder wrote:
Can someone please quote our O vs D rankings in '08?

How about '05?

And anything before would be welcome.

2017. 5-2
2010. 5-1
2008. 21-1
2005. 8-3
2004. 8-3

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:50 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
Games are in fact unique and how they unfold matters in as far as how to persue the offense.

Ive been pretty damn happy the last 2 games.

Picking apart minutiae isnt always productive.

My concerns are-
Can Ben carry the team if a defense can consistently stop Bell? Is Bell going to be as effective in the post season if he keeps getting the ball so much? And always - is this defense and it’s coach going to match up with the Bradys of the world? I’ll believe when I see all of these things happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:19 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
MY head will explode if the defensive gameplay is the same, and we let #12 sit in the pocket all goddamn day and pick us the fuck apart.

Mine exploded in the AFCCG even though I knew they would do what they did.

I am not buying until I see it this time.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:18 am 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Good is the enemy of great.


Perfect is the enemy of great.

30 points a game is the enemy of great football.

With a great defense; score first, score twice and employ the blockade and starve them out. I am happy with it.

I enjoy the run game so much more than the passing game with Bell and Bettis. 30 points a game is too much. It takes the team too far away from what they are trying to execute. I think if you have a set of principles on offense you would never have score 30 or score every drive as a principle.

If you are running a professional football team, the offense would be something you can execute weekly, something that is repeatable, something that is controllable, and something that looks like the previous week in which you can employ improvement methodology.

I don’t get how you practice scoring 30. I get practicing red zone, practicing 2 minute offense, practicing situations. You can’t practice scoring 30. You can also practice eating the clock, 3rd down conversions, QB sneaks, middle of the field plays, staying in bounds, audibles and snapping with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. You can practice 5 minute drives to end the 2nd half and 5 minute drives to end the 4th qtr.

Scoring 30 is more luck than good.

Great defense, score twice, Go conservative and eat the clock. There is more control what you can control in that mentality than in focusing on scoring 30.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:40 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
The questions you're posing have nothing to do with your misquoting him, essentially making shit up that he's saying.


I didn't misquote anyone. I simply explained what they were saying. You disagree, and I disagree with your disagreement.

Again, show me where I misquoted anyone. You and I and everyone who read that article know I didn't. So spare me that bullshit.


Let's start here. Did he say these things that you have said he said?:

*You tell me that with a lead and the defense playing well, your main job is not to turn the ball over and I'd probably fire you on the spot.

*He basically said he often calls plays with possession first and foremost in mind (...and YOU have interpreted possession to mean an absence of turnovers, rather than maintaining control of the ball and the clock).


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:18 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
Can someone please quote our O vs D rankings in '08?

How about '05?

And anything before would be welcome.

2017. 5-2
2010. 5-1
2008. 21-1
2005. 8-3
2004. 8-3


Thanks. Seems about right on schedule.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:48 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Good is the enemy of great.


Perfect is the enemy of great.

30 points a game is the enemy of great football.

With a great defense; score first, score twice and employ the blockade and starve them out. I am happy with it.

I enjoy the run game so much more than the passing game with Bell and Bettis. 30 points a game is too much. It takes the team too far away from what they are trying to execute. I think if you have a set of principles on offense you would never have score 30 or score every drive as a principle.

If you are running a professional football team, the offense would be something you can execute weekly, something that is repeatable, something that is controllable, and something that looks like the previous week in which you can employ improvement methodology.

I don’t get how you practice scoring 30. I get practicing red zone, practicing 2 minute offense, practicing situations. You can’t practice scoring 30. You can also practice eating the clock, 3rd down conversions, QB sneaks, middle of the field plays, staying in bounds, audibles and snapping with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. You can practice 5 minute drives to end the 2nd half and 5 minute drives to end the 4th qtr.

Scoring 30 is more luck than good.

Great defense, score twice, Go conservative and eat the clock. There is more control what you can control in that mentality than in focusing on scoring 30.

With the offence we have & especially if MB regains his previous form, is one touchdown a quarter & one field goal along the way really too much to expect regularly? Perhaps, we could just hire a new assistant offensive coordinator for better red zone direction. It's pretty clear that Haley needs significant help in that area.


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:23 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Good is the enemy of great.


Perfect is the enemy of great.

30 points a game is the enemy of great football.

With a great defense; score first, score twice and employ the blockade and starve them out. I am happy with it.

I enjoy the run game so much more than the passing game with Bell and Bettis. 30 points a game is too much. It takes the team too far away from what they are trying to execute. I think if you have a set of principles on offense you would never have score 30 or score every drive as a principle.

If you are running a professional football team, the offense would be something you can execute weekly, something that is repeatable, something that is controllable, and something that looks like the previous week in which you can employ improvement methodology.

I don’t get how you practice scoring 30. I get practicing red zone, practicing 2 minute offense, practicing situations. You can’t practice scoring 30. You can also practice eating the clock, 3rd down conversions, QB sneaks, middle of the field plays, staying in bounds, audibles and snapping with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. You can practice 5 minute drives to end the 2nd half and 5 minute drives to end the 4th qtr.

Scoring 30 is more luck than good.

Great defense, score twice, Go conservative and eat the clock. There is more control what you can control in that mentality than in focusing on scoring 30.



This is a good post. I think sometimes we get spoiled as Steelers fans. Give me 24 points and a situation where we have the ball last and let our offensive line work. I don't want that defense on the field more than 25 minutes of a game and anything under 20 is a gift. One 7 minute drive in the second half that ends in a TD kills any game or at least makes the opposing offense so one dimensional our defense can basically just stack pressures, sacks, and int from QBs who are trying to avoid the two

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
I didn't misquote anyone. I simply explained what they were saying. You disagree, and I disagree with your disagreement.

Poor Kodiak. Yes, you clearly did. Never once in this thread did I praise Haley or apologize for him. I simply pointed out that there is more to offensive strategy than reckless abandon at all times. A concept that apparently escapes you. We get it, you don't like Haley. Cool. Now please look back at all the nonsense you've been spewing, get a grip and stop proving to everyone here that you're the village idiot. That is all.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:50 pm 
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Smashmouth21 wrote:
Poor Kodiak. Yes, you clearly did.


Show me where I misquoted anyone (pretty hard to do when the quote was cut and pasted from the article).

You said something stupid, and then doubled down on it. Quit while you're behind.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Show me where I misquoted anyone.


Kodiak wrote:
You keep matriculating the ball you score points. It's not rocket science, despite your's and Haley's clear efforts to excuse under-performance.

Yet another Kodiak fail. I never made any excuses for the offense's underperformance. Now I don't have time to tutor you in reading comprehension so please move on to your next 5-star rant. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:21 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Let's start here. Did he say these things that you have said he said?:


Umm, did I say he said those things, or is it reading into what he said? I mean, that's usually what we do - we analyze what was said and wasn't said.

Disagree with what I read into or inferred from his comments, but don't try to support your argument by claiming I misquoted him because I didn't.

Thanks for clearing all that up boss.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Smashmouth21 wrote:
Yet another Kodiak fail. I never made any excuses for the offense's underperformance. Now I don't have time to tutor you in reading comprehension so please move on to your next 5-star rant. Thanks.


Umm, you sure as hell did because you're defending Haley like he's you buddy or your husband. You're defending the underperformance without making excuses for it......rrrrrriiiiiiiigggggghhhhtttttttt......

Still waiting for all these misquotes you claim I made. Like I said, take your bullshit and shove it back up where it came out of.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Well this is fun

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Smashmouth21 wrote:
Yet another Kodiak fail. I never made any excuses for the offense's underperformance. Now I don't have time to tutor you in reading comprehension so please move on to your next 5-star rant. Thanks.


Umm, you sure as hell did because you're defending Haley like he's you buddy or your husband. You're defending the underperformance without making excuses for it......rrrrrriiiiiiiigggggghhhhtttttttt......

Still waiting for all these misquotes you claim I made. Like I said, take your bullshit and shove it back up where it came out of.

Again you have yet to show even once where I defended Haley. You can't because I didn't. You're the one stroking yourself while you go on and on about Todd. Not me.

And way to hang onto semantics like some kind of loser merit badge. I can see you telling yourself: "Well I used the actual quote first so the fact that literally everything I said after that and attributed to others was dead wrong doesn't matter. I didn't technically misquote anyone just completely mischaracterized their position. So that's not the same!" What a fucktard.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:38 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Well this is fun

You're right. Sorry. Letting the stupid get to me. I'll be the bigger person.

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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:54 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
Can someone please quote our O vs D rankings in '08?

How about '05?

And anything before would be welcome.

2017. 5-2
2010. 5-1
2008. 21-1
2005. 8-3
2004. 8-3


'79. 1-5

'78 our QB led the league in TD throws and was voted league MVP


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 Post subject: Re: Why cant we have a good defense and STILL try for 30?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:05 pm 
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NE Patriots 2011 season thru last season...

SB
AFCCG
AFCCG
SB
AFCCG
SB

Points per game...

32.3
33.9
27.9
30.4
28.3
28.7


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