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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I wish they would demote M Mitchell and promote Wilcox.


Really? Let me ask you question did you notice Hill or Kelce deep today?


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:36 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
exactly...and teams shredded us running the ball.. no need to pass..and we never had much of a lead for teams to play catch up vs our prevent ! racking up pass yards.. stats are deceiving..that said I do like the pressure I'm seeing.


This isn't universally true. Shredded v run is what happened to KC: sustained yardage gained over and over. Bears got x 2 big plays that inflated their yardage and same with Jags. Jags big run came when game was over and Steelers had everyone at LOS. Does run D need to improve? Yes it has to be more disciplined and we saw that against one of best rushing attacks was stifled and shut down.

Also v Bears: Steelers rarely had 8 in box, why I don't know but nonetheless they didn't. The scheme for that game was mindbogglingly bad. V Jags until Fournette had cherry on top run in game that was over he had 27 rushes for 91 yards.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:37 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Havoc wrote:
On Steelers post game radio yesterday I think they talked about Butler unleashing the DL to rush the passer more. I think they also mentioned because of that, it leaves some gaps in the DL in the run game.

I am thrilled with the idea of unleashing the DL to rush the passer.

I didn't get to hear too much of that conversation, but I'm pretty sure that is something they discussed.


Makes sense. The DL are getting up field more and that could cause more gaps in run D.

I know people say jags but outside of the bears no team has really been that successful running. That is the bears clearly game planned around their run game and had the right backs to execute it.

I think this D is for real. Upgrades all over. Front 7 getting more pressure, secondary much steadier. They’ll have some ugly moments like chiefs td with the burns miss coverage and tackle. But overall it’s a good unit.


They better watch out for some RB delays and draws where a back leaks thru our over-aggressive nature at times.

I love the DL and all the upside right now. Nobody is growing faster then Stephon Tuitt. Guy is a monster.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:42 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
vs the Chiefs, the Steelers played a lot more zone which helps them vs the run. They went back to some zone blitzes to generate more pressure. I am impressed with the amount of pressure they are getting. Dupree is getting pressure but not finishing. He needs to take a more direct line at some point ( see Deebo).


He will never have bend of Deebo. That sort of bend is rare, very rare. Dupree is fine and we need to focus less on sacks and more on overall impact. The impact of yesterday? Smith couldn't go down the field at all. It resulted in KC's offense being shut the fuck down because Smith was forced to dump off, throw it away and try to avoid sacks/turnovers rather than making plays. Dupree had by my count at least 6 pressures. For an OLB that is a banner day against a very good RT in Schwartz.

Sacks will come and when they do they'll be in bunches. One of things we overlook is pressure from multiple places is opening up great chances for others. Vince Williams was beneficiary today.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Hinestuff wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
Havoc wrote:
On Steelers post game radio yesterday I think they talked about Butler unleashing the DL to rush the passer more. I think they also mentioned because of that, it leaves some gaps in the DL in the run game.

I am thrilled with the idea of unleashing the DL to rush the passer.

I didn't get to hear too much of that conversation, but I'm pretty sure that is something they discussed.


Makes sense. The DL are getting up field more and that could cause more gaps in run D.

I know people say jags but outside of the bears no team has really been that successful running. That is the bears clearly game planned around their run game and had the right backs to execute it.

I think this D is for real. Upgrades all over. Front 7 getting more pressure, secondary much steadier. They’ll have some ugly moments like chiefs td with the burns miss coverage and tackle. But overall it’s a good unit.


They better watch out for some RB delays and draws where a back leaks thru our over-aggressive nature at times.

I love the DL and all the upside right now. Nobody is growing faster then Stephon Tuitt. Guy is a monster.


Sure but Hargave is reason KC had F all inside runs. Hargrave blew up LOS on Smith QB sneak a big play not being discussed because it doesn't leap out on screen.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:08 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
bam morris wrote:
exactly...and teams shredded us running the ball.. no need to pass..and we never had much of a lead for teams to play catch up vs our prevent ! racking up pass yards.. stats are deceiving..that said I do like the pressure I'm seeing.


This isn't universally true. Shredded v run is what happened to KC: sustained yardage gained over and over. Bears got x 2 big plays that inflated their yardage and same with Jags. Jags big run came when game was over and Steelers had everyone at LOS. Does run D need to improve? Yes it has to be more disciplined and we saw that against one of best rushing attacks was stifled and shut down.

Also v Bears: Steelers rarely had 8 in box, why I don't know but nonetheless they didn't. The scheme for that game was mindbogglingly bad. V Jags until Fournette had cherry on top run in game that was over he had 27 rushes for 91 yards.


I'm not sure what Bears game you were watching. There was no inflation because of a couple big plays, unless you're only talking about Cohen's numbers.

Howard had runs of.......11, 8, 13, 8, 9, 6, 13, 17, 15, 18, 19........that's called gashed.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:10 pm 
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R S wrote:
steelclan wrote:
bam morris wrote:
exactly...and teams shredded us running the ball.. no need to pass..and we never had much of a lead for teams to play catch up vs our prevent ! racking up pass yards.. stats are deceiving..that said I do like the pressure I'm seeing.


This isn't universally true. Shredded v run is what happened to KC: sustained yardage gained over and over. Bears got x 2 big plays that inflated their yardage and same with Jags. Jags big run came when game was over and Steelers had everyone at LOS. Does run D need to improve? Yes it has to be more disciplined and we saw that against one of best rushing attacks was stifled and shut down.

Also v Bears: Steelers rarely had 8 in box, why I don't know but nonetheless they didn't. The scheme for that game was mindbogglingly bad. V Jags until Fournette had cherry on top run in game that was over he had 27 rushes for 91 yards.


I'm not sure what Bears game you were watching. There was no inflation because of a couple big plays, unless you're only talking about Cohen's numbers.

Howard had runs of.......11, 8, 13, 8, 9, 6, 13, 17, 15, 18, 19........that's called gashed.


Yeah that is fair enough. I was wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:39 pm 
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sgtrobo wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but...

rookie DeShone Kizer
backup Case Keenum
backup Mike Glennon
Joe Flacco
Blake Bortles

not exactly a murderer's row of talent there. That said, we rebounded magnificently and shut down a red hot team offensively.


I see this argument a lot when our D has success and the argument definitely has a degree of merit. That being said, and I know many may disagree, but that group represents about 90% of the QBs in the NFL. The elite NFL QB (consistently elite, not just a flash in the pan year or two) is a limited breed these days. If everyone in the league is also playing 90% shit QBs too than its a reasonably even measuring stick for all. If there is a team out there only playing the top 5 elite QBs every week of the 16 week season than, yeah, they should get some extra consideration.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:46 pm 
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R S wrote:
RemoAZ wrote:
I'm sure being 28th against the run plays into the opposing team's game plan.


historically, if your team gets consistently gashed in the run game, you will have artificially bloated ranking in pass defense. That's part of it, but this is the best overall secondary the Steelers have had since possibly the steel curtain if you think about it.


They are better there for sure but they couldn't get much worse. It still doesn't make the run defense any better. They've been pounded by the run and I don't trust this defense against anyone. Hopefully they continue to improve but the offense simply has to score more touchdowns. If we leave the game in the hands of the defense, we're going nowhere. I still haven't been able to wipe that winning drive by the Cowboys last year from my memory. We've looked that bad against the run in a few games this season.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:51 am 
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steelclan wrote:
jebrick wrote:
vs the Chiefs, the Steelers played a lot more zone which helps them vs the run. They went back to some zone blitzes to generate more pressure. I am impressed with the amount of pressure they are getting. Dupree is getting pressure but not finishing. He needs to take a more direct line at some point ( see Deebo).


He will never have bend of Deebo. That sort of bend is rare, very rare. Dupree is fine and we need to focus less on sacks and more on overall impact. The impact of yesterday? Smith couldn't go down the field at all. It resulted in KC's offense being shut the fuck down because Smith was forced to dump off, throw it away and try to avoid sacks/turnovers rather than making plays. Dupree had by my count at least 6 pressures. For an OLB that is a banner day against a very good RT in Schwartz.

Sacks will come and when they do they'll be in bunches. One of things we overlook is pressure from multiple places is opening up great chances for others. Vince Williams was beneficiary today.


Deebo does not have the bend anymore. His move on Fisher was position and strength and a direct line to the QB.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:18 am 
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RemoAZ wrote:
They are better there for sure but they couldn't get much worse. It still doesn't make the run defense any better. They've been pounded by the run and I don't trust this defense against anyone. Hopefully they continue to improve but the offense simply has to score more touchdowns. If we leave the game in the hands of the defense, we're going nowhere. I still haven't been able to wipe that winning drive by the Cowboys last year from my memory. We've looked that bad against the run in a few games this season.

They just played the #1 Rush offense on the road-- how did they look?

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:26 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
They just played the #1 Rush offense on the road-- how did they look?


KC had a lot of guys hurt, but usually that doesn't mean you fall off a cliff...and they were dominated worse than that.


Defense is good. Getting turnovers and making key stops. But no defense in today's NFL is going to slow down top offenses much. That's why to be a contender they have to get the offense in gear. Even if Andy Reid is Tomlin's Tomlin, I wouldn't want to play KC again scoring only 19.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:29 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
They just played the #1 Rush offense on the road-- how did they look?


KC had a lot of guys hurt, but usually that doesn't mean you fall off a cliff...and they were dominated worse than that.


Defense is good. Getting turnovers and making key stops. But no defense in today's NFL is going to slow down top offenses much. That's why to be a contender they have to get the offense in gear. Even if Andy Reid is Tomlin's Tomlin, I wouldn't want to play KC again scoring only 19.

KC had basically the same Center they've had for weeks. They swapped out at guard two weeks. ago. It's not like they had a revamped OL for this game.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:18 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
KC had basically the same Center they've had for weeks. They swapped out at guard two weeks. ago. It's not like they had a revamped OL for this game.


True.

I'm still hoping Wilcox can be an upgrade over Mitchell. We need Davis to improve, as well. I fear Mitchell and Davis will be exposed against better passing teams (yeah, I realize Alex Smith was the hottest QB in the league....he's still Alex Smith).

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Mitchell and Davis played pretty damn well this week. Shockingly well.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Steel Reign wrote:
sgtrobo wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but...

rookie DeShone Kizer
backup Case Keenum
backup Mike Glennon
Joe Flacco
Blake Bortles

not exactly a murderer's row of talent there. That said, we rebounded magnificently and shut down a red hot team offensively.


I see this argument a lot when our D has success and the argument definitely has a degree of merit. That being said, and I know many may disagree, but that group represents about 90% of the QBs in the NFL. The elite NFL QB (consistently elite, not just a flash in the pan year or two) is a limited breed these days. If everyone in the league is also playing 90% shit QBs too than its a reasonably even measuring stick for all. If there is a team out there only playing the top 5 elite QBs every week of the 16 week season than, yeah, they should get some extra consideration.


2000 Ravens faced a line up of QBs so bad it was almost comical.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:21 pm 
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I thought I read somewhere that Wilcox had only one snap. Is that correct?

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:26 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Steel Reign wrote:
sgtrobo wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but...

rookie DeShone Kizer
backup Case Keenum
backup Mike Glennon
Joe Flacco
Blake Bortles

not exactly a murderer's row of talent there. That said, we rebounded magnificently and shut down a red hot team offensively.


I see this argument a lot when our D has success and the argument definitely has a degree of merit. That being said, and I know many may disagree, but that group represents about 90% of the QBs in the NFL. The elite NFL QB (consistently elite, not just a flash in the pan year or two) is a limited breed these days. If everyone in the league is also playing 90% shit QBs too than its a reasonably even measuring stick for all. If there is a team out there only playing the top 5 elite QBs every week of the 16 week season than, yeah, they should get some extra consideration.


2000 Ravens faced a line up of QBs so bad it was almost comical.

Might just be the rule rather than the exception. I doubt that there are any defenses facing the likes of Brady and Rogers every other week. I'd venture that most gaudy defensive stats are built off the backs of JAG or worse QBs.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Might just be the rule rather than the exception. I doubt that there are any defenses facing the likes of Brady and Rogers every other week. I'd venture that most gaudy defensive stats are built off the backs of JAG or worse QBs.


Yeah, most years it's a stretch to identify 10 "good" QB's. Might be more that occasionally have a good year, like the Alex Smith's of the world, but still not guys you fear.

This year, as of right now, you otherwise have Brady, Rodgers, Brees....maybe Carr, maybe Prescott (still TBD, in my book). No one else is exactly lighting it up.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Might just be the rule rather than the exception. I doubt that there are any defenses facing the likes of Brady and Rogers every other week. I'd venture that most gaudy defensive stats are built off the backs of JAG or worse QBs.


Yeah, most years it's a stretch to identify 10 "good" QB's. Might be more that occasionally have a good year, like the Alex Smith's of the world, but still not guys you fear.

This year, as of right now, you otherwise have Brady, Rodgers, Brees....maybe Carr, maybe Prescott (still TBD, in my book). No one else is exactly lighting it up.


I notice you did not include Ben on your list.

:P

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I notice you did not include Ben on your list.

:P


Even without the unlucky 3-4 picks, I'm guessing he still has a QBR below or @90, right around Rivers, Palmer, Wilson, Eli, Ryan and some of the other usual suspects. And even if his numbers were a little better, we're still averaging less than 20 a game.

I don't think Ben has been bad this year, but he's not been good. Look at that list above - a lot of "top-10" guys are off to slow starts.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:01 pm 
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I haven't seen D. Watson play yet, but Houston sure is scoring a lot of points with him. Obviously way too early to call him elite.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Steel Drummer wrote:
I haven't seen D. Watson play yet, but Houston sure is scoring a lot of points with him. Obviously way too early to call him elite.

Watson has been pretty good. We’ll see how DCs adjust to him once they have enough film to break down. Personally, I think he’s going to have a very good career.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Watson has been pretty good. We’ll see how DCs adjust to him once they have enough film to break down. Personally, I think he’s going to have a very good career.


Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Watson has been pretty good. We’ll see how DCs adjust to him once they have enough film to break down. Personally, I think he’s going to have a very good career.


Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

True...

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

Luck has been getting the snot beaten out of him for years now. Indy should be sued for criminal negligence.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Steel Drummer wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

Luck has been getting the snot beaten out of him for years now. Indy should be sued for criminal negligence.


Ryan had one great season. Ryan plays 9 games a year in domes. He also has been playing in a division with some putrid pass defenses for years. Elite? Nah. Good yeah.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:30 pm 
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6th in goal-to-goal is pretty good - if you're getting there often.

16th in RZ is bad for an elite offense, period....especially when you aren't getting there often.

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