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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:49 am 
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On Steelers post game radio yesterday I think they talked about Butler unleashing the DL to rush the passer more. I think they also mentioned because of that, it leaves some gaps in the DL in the run game.

I am thrilled with the idea of unleashing the DL to rush the passer.

I didn't get to hear too much of that conversation, but I'm pretty sure that is something they discussed.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:08 am 
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Havoc wrote:
On Steelers post game radio yesterday I think they talked about Butler unleashing the DL to rush the passer more. I think they also mentioned because of that, it leaves some gaps in the DL in the run game.

I am thrilled with the idea of unleashing the DL to rush the passer.

I didn't get to hear too much of that conversation, but I'm pretty sure that is something they discussed.


Makes sense. The DL are getting up field more and that could cause more gaps in run D.

I know people say jags but outside of the bears no team has really been that successful running. That is the bears clearly game planned around their run game and had the right backs to execute it.

I think this D is for real. Upgrades all over. Front 7 getting more pressure, secondary much steadier. They’ll have some ugly moments like chiefs td with the burns miss coverage and tackle. But overall it’s a good unit.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:30 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I wish they would demote M Mitchell and promote Wilcox.


This.

I fucking HATE Mike Mitchell. Him wearing the black and gold is a complete joke.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:39 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
sgtrobo wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but...

rookie DeShone Kizer
backup Case Keenum
backup Mike Glennon
Joe Flacco
Blake Bortles

not exactly a murderer's row of talent there. That said, we rebounded magnificently and shut down a red hot team offensively.

Before today, the Steelers were the 3rd ranked Football Outsiders pass D-- and that is adjusted for strength of schedule (the steelers were downgraded to 3rd with the 27th ranked strength of offensive opponent.)

Well, Chiefs were #1 on O, so this performance is going to vault the Steelers to the top pass D spot-- ending up at #2 overall defense is a possibility, too. Huge performance today.



agreed thoroughly, and when you have 40 (edit - 36) minutes TOP, that helps relieve the pressure against the run on defense and we shut down the #1 RB so far this season. Outstanding performance indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:43 pm 
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I like Dupree more than most, but does he REALLY only have one pass rushing move?

The giant wide loop around the tackle praying the QB takes a very deep drop?

Is this the fucking only thing he can do?

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:07 pm 
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I’ve been patient with Dupree because he’s shown some flashes and is still developing.

With that being said, I’ve been trying to focus on him more and it seems his motor is stuck in idle at times.

I don’t think he gives intense effort down in and down out.

Thus far he’s underwhelming and not producing.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:12 pm 
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KC wrote:
I like Dupree more than most, but does he REALLY only have one pass rushing move?

The giant wide loop around the tackle praying the QB takes a very deep drop?

Is this the fucking only thing he can do?


Um, yes. That's it. He's an athlete playing football. I've seen very very little progress on hand fighting, technique, or any sort of counter moves on the pass rush. The wide loop he takes is his only real move. Now, it wouldn't be so bad if he actually was able to lean and dip his shoulder around the corner. But, he really can't.

Our #1 pick had one tackle yesterday. Last week, he has zero tackles and an assist. One tackle and one assist in 2 weeks. I'm really trying not to hate Dupree, but it's getting hard. Now, there were a few plays where he maintained the edge and played the run well yesterday, so I want to be objective here. But he is a far far cry from the dynamic playmaking force that everyone expected coming out as a #1 pick.

Imagine how good this D could be if Dupree actually stepped up his game. I'm not holding my breath though.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:15 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I’ve been patient with Dupree because he’s shown some flashes and is still developing.

With that being said, I’ve been trying to focus on him more and it seems his motor is stuck in idle at times.

I don’t think he gives intense effort down in and down out.

Thus far he’s underwhelming and not producing.


I saw that on film when he was at Kentucky. That's why I wanted no part of him despite his great combine numbers. I wanted Shane Ray. Dupree is an athlete but I don't see the motor and desire to get better there. With his speed and size, he should be DECIMATING NFL right tackles. After all, they are the weaker pass protectors of the line (usually). Instead he plays pattycakes or does a loop around the RT tackle that is wider than a turn at the Daytona Speedway. It's pathetic at times.

I will give him this. He's not bad versus the run and if we can scheme him to be unblocked, he can make some plays. Otherwise, he sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Wasn't Harrison taking reps in camp and preseason at Dupree's spot?

Remember, there's a "plan" for James Harrison :D

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:20 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
I think people are making too much re QBs. Our CBs have been dominate attacking WR. There hasn't been much separation. Haden is playing like a borderline No 1. Burns is a No 1. Hilton is playing like a legit corner. The quality of QB doesn't impact the quality of coverage.


Not to mention - how many years have we been making JAGs look like Pro Bowlers?

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I wish they would demote M Mitchell and promote Wilcox.


Really? Let me ask you question did you notice Hill or Kelce deep today?


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:36 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
exactly...and teams shredded us running the ball.. no need to pass..and we never had much of a lead for teams to play catch up vs our prevent ! racking up pass yards.. stats are deceiving..that said I do like the pressure I'm seeing.


This isn't universally true. Shredded v run is what happened to KC: sustained yardage gained over and over. Bears got x 2 big plays that inflated their yardage and same with Jags. Jags big run came when game was over and Steelers had everyone at LOS. Does run D need to improve? Yes it has to be more disciplined and we saw that against one of best rushing attacks was stifled and shut down.

Also v Bears: Steelers rarely had 8 in box, why I don't know but nonetheless they didn't. The scheme for that game was mindbogglingly bad. V Jags until Fournette had cherry on top run in game that was over he had 27 rushes for 91 yards.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:37 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Havoc wrote:
On Steelers post game radio yesterday I think they talked about Butler unleashing the DL to rush the passer more. I think they also mentioned because of that, it leaves some gaps in the DL in the run game.

I am thrilled with the idea of unleashing the DL to rush the passer.

I didn't get to hear too much of that conversation, but I'm pretty sure that is something they discussed.


Makes sense. The DL are getting up field more and that could cause more gaps in run D.

I know people say jags but outside of the bears no team has really been that successful running. That is the bears clearly game planned around their run game and had the right backs to execute it.

I think this D is for real. Upgrades all over. Front 7 getting more pressure, secondary much steadier. They’ll have some ugly moments like chiefs td with the burns miss coverage and tackle. But overall it’s a good unit.


They better watch out for some RB delays and draws where a back leaks thru our over-aggressive nature at times.

I love the DL and all the upside right now. Nobody is growing faster then Stephon Tuitt. Guy is a monster.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:42 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
vs the Chiefs, the Steelers played a lot more zone which helps them vs the run. They went back to some zone blitzes to generate more pressure. I am impressed with the amount of pressure they are getting. Dupree is getting pressure but not finishing. He needs to take a more direct line at some point ( see Deebo).


He will never have bend of Deebo. That sort of bend is rare, very rare. Dupree is fine and we need to focus less on sacks and more on overall impact. The impact of yesterday? Smith couldn't go down the field at all. It resulted in KC's offense being shut the fuck down because Smith was forced to dump off, throw it away and try to avoid sacks/turnovers rather than making plays. Dupree had by my count at least 6 pressures. For an OLB that is a banner day against a very good RT in Schwartz.

Sacks will come and when they do they'll be in bunches. One of things we overlook is pressure from multiple places is opening up great chances for others. Vince Williams was beneficiary today.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Hinestuff wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
Havoc wrote:
On Steelers post game radio yesterday I think they talked about Butler unleashing the DL to rush the passer more. I think they also mentioned because of that, it leaves some gaps in the DL in the run game.

I am thrilled with the idea of unleashing the DL to rush the passer.

I didn't get to hear too much of that conversation, but I'm pretty sure that is something they discussed.


Makes sense. The DL are getting up field more and that could cause more gaps in run D.

I know people say jags but outside of the bears no team has really been that successful running. That is the bears clearly game planned around their run game and had the right backs to execute it.

I think this D is for real. Upgrades all over. Front 7 getting more pressure, secondary much steadier. They’ll have some ugly moments like chiefs td with the burns miss coverage and tackle. But overall it’s a good unit.


They better watch out for some RB delays and draws where a back leaks thru our over-aggressive nature at times.

I love the DL and all the upside right now. Nobody is growing faster then Stephon Tuitt. Guy is a monster.


Sure but Hargave is reason KC had F all inside runs. Hargrave blew up LOS on Smith QB sneak a big play not being discussed because it doesn't leap out on screen.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:08 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
bam morris wrote:
exactly...and teams shredded us running the ball.. no need to pass..and we never had much of a lead for teams to play catch up vs our prevent ! racking up pass yards.. stats are deceiving..that said I do like the pressure I'm seeing.


This isn't universally true. Shredded v run is what happened to KC: sustained yardage gained over and over. Bears got x 2 big plays that inflated their yardage and same with Jags. Jags big run came when game was over and Steelers had everyone at LOS. Does run D need to improve? Yes it has to be more disciplined and we saw that against one of best rushing attacks was stifled and shut down.

Also v Bears: Steelers rarely had 8 in box, why I don't know but nonetheless they didn't. The scheme for that game was mindbogglingly bad. V Jags until Fournette had cherry on top run in game that was over he had 27 rushes for 91 yards.


I'm not sure what Bears game you were watching. There was no inflation because of a couple big plays, unless you're only talking about Cohen's numbers.

Howard had runs of.......11, 8, 13, 8, 9, 6, 13, 17, 15, 18, 19........that's called gashed.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:10 pm 
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R S wrote:
steelclan wrote:
bam morris wrote:
exactly...and teams shredded us running the ball.. no need to pass..and we never had much of a lead for teams to play catch up vs our prevent ! racking up pass yards.. stats are deceiving..that said I do like the pressure I'm seeing.


This isn't universally true. Shredded v run is what happened to KC: sustained yardage gained over and over. Bears got x 2 big plays that inflated their yardage and same with Jags. Jags big run came when game was over and Steelers had everyone at LOS. Does run D need to improve? Yes it has to be more disciplined and we saw that against one of best rushing attacks was stifled and shut down.

Also v Bears: Steelers rarely had 8 in box, why I don't know but nonetheless they didn't. The scheme for that game was mindbogglingly bad. V Jags until Fournette had cherry on top run in game that was over he had 27 rushes for 91 yards.


I'm not sure what Bears game you were watching. There was no inflation because of a couple big plays, unless you're only talking about Cohen's numbers.

Howard had runs of.......11, 8, 13, 8, 9, 6, 13, 17, 15, 18, 19........that's called gashed.


Yeah that is fair enough. I was wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:39 pm 
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sgtrobo wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but...

rookie DeShone Kizer
backup Case Keenum
backup Mike Glennon
Joe Flacco
Blake Bortles

not exactly a murderer's row of talent there. That said, we rebounded magnificently and shut down a red hot team offensively.


I see this argument a lot when our D has success and the argument definitely has a degree of merit. That being said, and I know many may disagree, but that group represents about 90% of the QBs in the NFL. The elite NFL QB (consistently elite, not just a flash in the pan year or two) is a limited breed these days. If everyone in the league is also playing 90% shit QBs too than its a reasonably even measuring stick for all. If there is a team out there only playing the top 5 elite QBs every week of the 16 week season than, yeah, they should get some extra consideration.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:46 pm 
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R S wrote:
RemoAZ wrote:
I'm sure being 28th against the run plays into the opposing team's game plan.


historically, if your team gets consistently gashed in the run game, you will have artificially bloated ranking in pass defense. That's part of it, but this is the best overall secondary the Steelers have had since possibly the steel curtain if you think about it.


They are better there for sure but they couldn't get much worse. It still doesn't make the run defense any better. They've been pounded by the run and I don't trust this defense against anyone. Hopefully they continue to improve but the offense simply has to score more touchdowns. If we leave the game in the hands of the defense, we're going nowhere. I still haven't been able to wipe that winning drive by the Cowboys last year from my memory. We've looked that bad against the run in a few games this season.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:51 am 
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steelclan wrote:
jebrick wrote:
vs the Chiefs, the Steelers played a lot more zone which helps them vs the run. They went back to some zone blitzes to generate more pressure. I am impressed with the amount of pressure they are getting. Dupree is getting pressure but not finishing. He needs to take a more direct line at some point ( see Deebo).


He will never have bend of Deebo. That sort of bend is rare, very rare. Dupree is fine and we need to focus less on sacks and more on overall impact. The impact of yesterday? Smith couldn't go down the field at all. It resulted in KC's offense being shut the fuck down because Smith was forced to dump off, throw it away and try to avoid sacks/turnovers rather than making plays. Dupree had by my count at least 6 pressures. For an OLB that is a banner day against a very good RT in Schwartz.

Sacks will come and when they do they'll be in bunches. One of things we overlook is pressure from multiple places is opening up great chances for others. Vince Williams was beneficiary today.


Deebo does not have the bend anymore. His move on Fisher was position and strength and a direct line to the QB.

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