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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:49 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
Furthermore.....why do we have such chronic redzone issues ? What would fix that ?


People aren't going to like this answer, but the one constant of shitty RZ performance is Ben. He's just not good down there, whether it's him checking into the wrong plays or execution errors


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 am 
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Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....


Lackadaisical approach, poor situational football play calling that's apparently endorsed by the FO and head coach. Example: You don't feel like practicing Wednesday's? Awe... el pobrecito..., go ahead and take the day off. Or..., it's 3rd down and 2 go ahead and have Bryant streak down the sideline for a 40 yard bomb that has less chance of completing than to simply Run Bell or Conner the 3 yards and a cloud of dust. /rant


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:24 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
Furthermore.....why do we have such chronic redzone issues ? What would fix that ?


People aren't going to like this answer, but the one constant of shitty RZ performance is Ben. He's just not good down there, whether it's him checking into the wrong plays or execution errors

Why was Ben able to be so good in 2005 & 2007? Was it just his mobility?

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:46 am 
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Haley doesn't know how to scheme guys open at our own 20 yard line! How the hell could he scheme guys open from inside the 10 yard line with such little field to work with? If you couple this with him either telegraphing what he wants to do (extra lineman and 1 WR or empty backfield and Ben in the gun), you then realize why we can't score in the red zone. Haley is no strategist - that's for sure!


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:53 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
Furthermore.....why do we have such chronic redzone issues ? What would fix that ?


People aren't going to like this answer, but the one constant of shitty RZ performance is Ben. He's just not good down there, whether it's him checking into the wrong plays or execution errors

Why was Ben able to be so good in 2005 & 2007? Was it just his mobility?


Heath Miller and Hines Ward could get open in tight space.

Randle El a bit too.

And Whiz did a great job with multiple plays out of one formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:56 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
Furthermore.....why do we have such chronic redzone issues ? What would fix that ?


People aren't going to like this answer, but the one constant of shitty RZ performance is Ben. He's just not good down there, whether it's him checking into the wrong plays or execution errors

Why was Ben able to be so good in 2005 & 2007? Was it just his mobility?


2 seasons out of 13. I'd call those statistical outliers more than anything else.

Like Parcells always says: at the end of the day, your record is pretty reflective of who you are. You lose some you should have won. You won some you should have lost.

Ben will go down as a mediocre RZ QB for his career.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:24 am 
alancac98 wrote:
Haley doesn't know how to scheme guys open at our own 20 yard line! How the hell could he scheme guys open from inside the 10 yard line with such little field to work with? If you couple this with him either telegraphing what he wants to do (extra lineman and 1 WR or empty backfield and Ben in the gun), you then realize why we can't score in the red zone. Haley is no strategist - that's for sure!


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:33 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Quote:
Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....


Lackadaisical approach, poor situational football play calling that's apparently endorsed by the FO and head coach. Example: You don't feel like practicing Wednesday's? Awe... el pobrecito..., go ahead and take the day off. Or..., it's 3rd down and 2 go ahead and have Bryant streak down the sideline for a 40 yard bomb that has less chance of completing than to simply Run Bell or Conner the 3 yards and a cloud of dust. /rant


To be fair to Ben he didn't practice Wednesdays because the coaches told him not to.

That changed this week.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
Furthermore.....why do we have such chronic redzone issues ? What would fix that ?


People aren't going to like this answer, but the one constant of shitty RZ performance is Ben. He's just not good down there, whether it's him checking into the wrong plays or execution errors

Why was Ben able to be so good in 2005 & 2007? Was it just his mobility?


Influence of Cowher & leftover influence of Cowher.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:52 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Heath Miller and Hines Ward could get open in tight space.

Randle El a bit too.

And Whiz did a great job with multiple plays out of one formation.

Exactamundo. I'd argue 2007 Ben wasn't as good at prereads as he is now, even.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:54 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
2 seasons out of 13. I'd call those statistical outliers more than anything else.

Like Parcells always says: at the end of the day, your record is pretty reflective of who you are. You lose some you should have won. You won some you should have lost.

Ben will go down as a mediocre RZ QB for his career.

Ben was neither a consistently mediocre RZ QB nor poor on the road before Haley. Both those trends developed after that point.

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But it’s your fault that you are kind of a stubborn jagoff that would argue with a fence post


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:01 pm 
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those next gen stats visuals were great

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:38 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
2 seasons out of 13. I'd call those statistical outliers more than anything else.

Like Parcells always says: at the end of the day, your record is pretty reflective of who you are. You lose some you should have won. You won some you should have lost.

Ben will go down as a mediocre RZ QB for his career.

Ben was neither a consistently mediocre RZ QB nor poor on the road before Haley. Both those trends developed after that point.


So you're saying that Ben doesn't have the capability to change the original playcall in the RZ? Whatever call comes in, he MUST go with that?


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:44 pm 
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He has the ability to change from some things to other things, not necessarily the ability to change drastically.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:22 pm 
And lets be honest about 2 things as far as audibles go....

1. Haley is probably the worst in the nfl at getting the play call in on time.

2. Any audible is still going to be a play in the limited HaleyBall playbook


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:41 pm 
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SteelerChef wrote:
And lets be honest about 2 things as far as audibles go....

1. Haley is probably the worst in the nfl at getting the play call in on time.

2. Any audible is still going to be a play in the limited HaleyBall playbook

Right. The QB doesn’t have an open playbook when he audibles. Its usually 2 or 3 options. And the audibles are also part of the weeks gameplan. The team knows going in the options out of every play call. And I’m sure there are some plays where the audible isn’t an option.

I just laugh when people insist that Ben has a hand in designing the offense and installing the game plan. I’d bet a dollar to a donut he has no say in the installation of the weeks gameplan. Todd Haley designs and installs, should take about 3 minutes since it’s pretty much the same each week, and Aviators In The Rain signs off on it. Ben probably gets to voice his preference of plays within the game plan, but that’s probably it. I seriously doubt that other than maybe Peyton, there are any other QBs with that kind of authority over the offense.
Does the frustration Ben shows over what he’s getting from the sidelines look like a guy that’s had a say in the offense?

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Last edited by Jobus Rum on Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:11 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
He has the ability to change from some things to other things, not necessarily the ability to change drastically.


Which QB's have the ability to change the call "drastically?"

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:35 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Which QB's have the ability to change the call "drastically?"


None. I've always heard the audibles are usually 2 runs and 1 pass.

You can then argue about "check with me" plays, and especially the patented "long hand-off"...but then you're really talking about chemistry and individual efforts outside the scheme.

Of course, more common today are option routes. Manning once joked, somewhat facetiously, that they only had "like 3 plays". Not sure how much option routes, outside of AB, PIT runs any more. The team simply doesn't have the focus and discipline for that, and the revolving door of young receivers hasn't helped.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Ben has made Pro Bowl alternate 3 times under Haley. He made it only twice before Haley.

Ben's best season was under Haley. With an improved starting cast, in 2014 he put the team on his shoulders and threw for 4900+ yards. 32 TDs. 9 INTS.

He had the 2nd highest QBR in the league 2015 under Haley despite missing a few games

Last year he declined against his peers to 11th. Then he whined about retiring in the off-season.

This year he has dropped off the map.

He had good years before Haley but his yards per game statline in some seasons were out 1979. He wasn't asked to throw much even in a league where pussified rules made it routine to average 300 ypg.

You guys are acting as if Ben never thrived under Haley. He has the greatest group of skill players (sans superstar TE) in the league.

Gee...wonder who changed? :roll:

Will the All-22 show the WRs consistently wide open? Or will they show every opposing team including the BROWNS playing as if they had Mel Blount, Rod Woodson and Troy Polamalu in their secondary?

Which seems more plausible...that Haley has changed or that Ben is old? Again, I don't like Todd Haley (like his wife though). The point here is if Haley sucked all these years, why is it only showing NOW?

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:09 pm 
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What would happen if BR completely ignored haley's play call, and called his own for a TD in the red zone.

You think Haley or anybody else on the team would bitch?

Now flip that, still a BR call, and it results in a stop, and a THTD. Would any of us even know?

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:24 pm 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
Ben has made Pro Bowl alternate 3 times under Haley. He made it only twice before Haley.

Ben's best season was under Haley. With an improved starting cast, in 2014 he put the team on his shoulders and threw for 4900+ yards. 32 TDs. 9 INTS.

He had the 2nd highest QBR in the league 2015 under Haley despite missing a few games

Last year he declined against his peers to 11th. Then he whined about retiring in the off-season.

This year he has dropped off the map.

He had good years before Haley but his yards per game statline in some seasons were out 1979. He wasn't asked to throw much even in a league where pussified rules made it routine to average 300 ypg.

You guys are acting as if Ben never thrived under Haley. He has the greatest group of skill players (sans superstar TE) in the league.

Gee...wonder who changed? :roll:

Will the All-22 show the WRs consistently wide open? Or will they show every opposing team including the BROWNS playing as if they had Mel Blount, Rod Woodson and Troy Polamalu in their secondary?

Which seems more plausible...that Haley has changed or that Ben is old? Again, I don't like Todd Haley (like his wife though). The point here is if Haley sucked all these years, why is it only showing NOW?


Tomlin has really clamped down on what Haley is allowed to do. Orders from above is what I've heard.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Quote:
He has the greatest group of skill players (sans superstar TE) in the league.

Biggest load of Steelers fanboy bullshit out there. Not even close!

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
ChicagoSteel wrote:
Ben has made Pro Bowl alternate 3 times under Haley. He made it only twice before Haley.

Ben's best season was under Haley. With an improved starting cast, in 2014 he put the team on his shoulders and threw for 4900+ yards. 32 TDs. 9 INTS.

He had the 2nd highest QBR in the league 2015 under Haley despite missing a few games

Last year he declined against his peers to 11th. Then he whined about retiring in the off-season.

This year he has dropped off the map.

He had good years before Haley but his yards per game statline in some seasons were out 1979. He wasn't asked to throw much even in a league where pussified rules made it routine to average 300 ypg.

You guys are acting as if Ben never thrived under Haley. He has the greatest group of skill players (sans superstar TE) in the league.

Gee...wonder who changed? :roll:

Will the All-22 show the WRs consistently wide open? Or will they show every opposing team including the BROWNS playing as if they had Mel Blount, Rod Woodson and Troy Polamalu in their secondary?

Which seems more plausible...that Haley has changed or that Ben is old? Again, I don't like Todd Haley (like his wife though). The point here is if Haley sucked all these years, why is it only showing NOW?


Tomlin has really clamped down on what Haley is allowed to do. Orders from above is what I've heard.

Once again...prove it, Shithead.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:16 pm 
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If the proof that's in the post I quoted isn't enough for you, pop a few game in from years past. Look at some cards and chief games too.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the HaleyBall offense a consequence of....
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:17 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
ChicagoSteel wrote:
Ben has made Pro Bowl alternate 3 times under Haley. He made it only twice before Haley.

Ben's best season was under Haley. With an improved starting cast, in 2014 he put the team on his shoulders and threw for 4900+ yards. 32 TDs. 9 INTS.

He had the 2nd highest QBR in the league 2015 under Haley despite missing a few games

Last year he declined against his peers to 11th. Then he whined about retiring in the off-season.

This year he has dropped off the map.

He had good years before Haley but his yards per game statline in some seasons were out 1979. He wasn't asked to throw much even in a league where pussified rules made it routine to average 300 ypg.

You guys are acting as if Ben never thrived under Haley. He has the greatest group of skill players (sans superstar TE) in the league.

Gee...wonder who changed? :roll:

Will the All-22 show the WRs consistently wide open? Or will they show every opposing team including the BROWNS playing as if they had Mel Blount, Rod Woodson and Troy Polamalu in their secondary?

Which seems more plausible...that Haley has changed or that Ben is old? Again, I don't like Todd Haley (like his wife though). The point here is if Haley sucked all these years, why is it only showing NOW?


Tomlin has really clamped down on what Haley is allowed to do. Orders from above is what I've heard.

i don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, then you're blaming Tomin because...?


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