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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I though upon re-watch that Ben was damn good on Sunday. Didn't like his decision to throw to Bryant on the INT, but he's made that play many times.

Otherwise, he was throwing dimes. The 1st TD and the game-clincher to AB were fantastic throws.


He had his flashes of brilliance, but I thought overall it was an underwhelming performance. Dude has weapons galore, and could only put up 21 vs. Cleveland? He plays like that against Minnesota and it'll be a long Sunday.


Exactly. He is inconsistent but that's only part of it.

There was a time when he did things that few, IF ANY, other NFL QBs could do. Now, in ALL honestly, what do you see Ben do Sunday that other QBs can't do? He is still an excellent QB but he's not doing anything 8 other top QBs could not do. And some of them are now doing things he can't.

His MAIN calling card...was that no matter what style of game he played, he was a winner and outplayed the opposing QB (unless their names were Brady or Rogers).

Now the 4th quarter comebacks are not so frequent and he isn't always the best QB on the field in terms of gameday performance. Shit Kizer looked hungry and composed and took shots without flinching.

I know you're all gonna go ape shit...but you all went ape shit on Warren Sapp when he called our defense old and slow...and he was right.

Ben is old and slow...or worse, disinterested. 2007 is a decade ago. Is he putting in the hours in the film room? In the weight room? With the nutritionist or physical therapist? Does he put in the effort that Deebo, Bell, or Brown put into their craft? Or Brady?

Someone here said he looked like a bloated corpse. QBs his age and older... who want to win...are usually fitter than they were when they came into the league. They HAVE to be. The team didn't pay him $102 million to go through the motions or for past glory. They paid for an elite, motivated, and experienced athlete. He's got the experienced part down. What about the rest?

I don't care if he tosses 6 TDs in some random game. A lot of guys have great single games like Alex Smith did opening night and Bradford did last night. Elite, HOF QBs are supposed to put 10 great games together in a row. They are supposed to plow through the playoffs like he did in 2005. Right now, with his ridiculous weapons...weapons that every other QB in the league envies, can he put together 10 great quarters in a row?

I hope he does as much as any of you fellow homers. We can't win #7 any other way.

You may begin the crucifixion... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:53 am 
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Clan.

Great work. Appreciate reading these offensive and defensive game reviews.

So glad, as all of us are, that Tuit will be back rather than lost for the season........Damn Adam Shyster and his quick to draw news breakers, regardless of collateral damage - us, who had to suffer Sunday afternoon and evening.

Tuit is a wrecking ball. Can't wait to see what he does when he gets back on the field.

Excited about the rest of the DL as Heyward and Gravedigger are handfuls, while the depth of Alualu and Walton are above the line.
When I saw Alualu on the field so early, not knowing ST was injured, I assumed Tomlin was finally realizing CH and ST can not log 90% of defensive snaps on the year and he would bring a better rotation.
Lets hope this is the case for 2017 and we can keep the big boys fresh.

I too would like to see more of Hargrave. Thought I heard his snap count was low. He will be quick to the QB on passing downs and pressure up the middle will be the difference against Marsha and other top QB's

Watt was impressive. Relentless pursuit is in his blood. See Watt, J.J.
He has IT. He has intangibles. Will be fun to watch him again this week.
He does one thing I wish more of our guys do.....get his hands up and looks to batt down QB passes. Saw it in the pre-season........with his length, athleticism and big hands I bet he has double digit batt downs this year.

I will take your word on Chickillo. But glad he made some impact plays. Huge plays. Will be nice for the rotation once Bud is back in there. If anything, a pretty good pass rusher to push and motivate Bud.

I am hoping for the real Bud Dupree to show up. I saw signs in his limited pre-season action. Thought he looked quicker around the edge and thought he was getting lower on his dip/ bend. Will be tuff to get to Bradford as he gets the ball out quick and has quick WRs getting open.

I love James Harrison. Did not see the field much. Probably same game plan as last year with starting Jarvis and hoping the light turns on while keeping James fresh for the final stretch.
My one concern with Harrison is, Did he get too big with all his lifting. He looks like a short NT out there. He will still bull rush a LT into QB's laps this year........but hope he does not have to drop into coverage too much when on the field. That being said, as a back up OLB and rotational pass rusher, a mentor and example of hard work, I will have him on my team until he says bye-bye himself.

Shazier was all over the field. Still leads with the helmet and head down on almost every tackle. Kid is gonna hurt himself. Still too quick to fill wrong holes on wrong reads, but will take his impact play possibilities anytime.

Did not see much of Vince Williams either way?

The secondary is still a concern.
I did not think Haden had a great day myself. Anyone know the final catches and yards he gave up.
Seems like they worked the out and comeback a few times on him that set up the long ball on his side.
I will pass game 1 off as nerves playing for a new team and expectations of Joe Haden himself playing for the Pittsburgh Steelers, as well as learning the defense surrounded by new teammates.

Burns was solid. Bigger test on Sunday.
Mitchell will not get his hands on many footballs. Only 4 INT into his 4th season in Pittsburgh. We need more speed, range and ball skills, INTs back in center field.

Gay is who we thought he was. A few steps behind targeted players. Still a good tackler and good on run support. But a guy QB's will find on 3rd downs. Not good
Glad he was sharing time with Hilton.

Hilton, Wilcox and eventually Sutton and Allen bring youth speed and promise to the secondary. Hope they all can get worked into the rotation as the season goes on....with the hope of Sutton by mid-season or earlier.

Sunday will be a tuff game for this secondary. Bradford, Diggs, Thielen, Rudolph, Cook and Murray. Thats a good amount of talent to defend.

Lets hope the Steelers game plan is to attach that newly constructed OL. 3 new guys?
Lets test their cohesion and pass off responsibilities as well as blitz pick up by two new backs, one being a rookie too boot.
Stunts, double loaded sides, pressure up the middle, Shaz up the gut, safety and CB blitz.....

Give Bradford and those quick WR's a big cushion and Bradford will pick us apart all day.
If we instituted more man coverage in the off season....this is the game to start.
No free releases for Bradford and his guys to be on the same page, timing, routes, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:05 pm 
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If we instituted more man coverage in the off season....this is the game to start.

Okay... who's got Theilen? Who's got Fleener?

I'll believe we are going somewhere if we can man cover Theilen from the slot.

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:16 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Who's got Fleener?

I, for one, am not worried about how the Steelers will defend Fleener this weekend. Kyle Rudolph may pose a challenge, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:30 pm 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
Obviously wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I though upon re-watch that Ben was damn good on Sunday. Didn't like his decision to throw to Bryant on the INT, but he's made that play many times.

Otherwise, he was throwing dimes. The 1st TD and the game-clincher to AB were fantastic throws.


He had his flashes of brilliance, but I thought overall it was an underwhelming performance. Dude has weapons galore, and could only put up 21 vs. Cleveland? He plays like that against Minnesota and it'll be a long Sunday.


Exactly. He is inconsistent but that's only part of it.

There was a time when he did things that few, IF ANY, other NFL QBs could do. Now, in ALL honestly, what do you see Ben do Sunday that other QBs can't do? He is still an excellent QB but he's not doing anything 8 other top QBs could not do. And some of them are now doing things he can't.

His MAIN calling card...was that no matter what style of game he played, he was a winner and outplayed the opposing QB (unless their names were Brady or Rogers).

Now the 4th quarter comebacks are not so frequent and he isn't always the best QB on the field in terms of gameday performance. Shit Kizer looked hungry and composed and took shots without flinching.

I know you're all gonna go ape shit...but you all went ape shit on Warren Sapp when he called our defense old and slow...and he was right.

Ben is old and slow...or worse, disinterested. 2007 is a decade ago. Is he putting in the hours in the film room? In the weight room? With the nutritionist or physical therapist? Does he put in the effort that Deebo, Bell, or Brown put into their craft? Or Brady?

Someone here said he looked like a bloated corpse. QBs his age and older... who want to win...are usually fitter than they were when they came into the league. They HAVE to be. The team didn't pay him $102 million to go through the motions or for past glory. They paid for an elite, motivated, and experienced athlete. He's got the experienced part down. What about the rest?

I don't care if he tosses 6 TDs in some random game. A lot of guys have great single games like Alex Smith did opening night and Bradford did last night. Elite, HOF QBs are supposed to put 10 great games together in a row. They are supposed to plow through the playoffs like he did in 2005. Right now, with his ridiculous weapons...weapons that every other QB in the league envies, can he put together 10 great quarters in a row?

I hope he does as much as any of you fellow homers. We can't win #7 any other way.

You may begin the crucifixion... :twisted:


Alot of thruth to what you say.
I do not think Ben had a very good game.
Alot of his short throws were a step behind, not in stride, tuff adjustments, etc.
His every third day off and 7 pre-season passes was on full display.

Yes he zipped in some nice passes and the long pass to AB was more up for grabs and AB being AB........completed non the less.
I expect more from Ben.
More leadership and more take charge of this offense.
Don't want to hear the wait and see shit.....

That being said.
This offensive philosophy and game plan and play calling is atrocious and does such a huge disservice to Ben.
Very little motion, movement, shifting, trips, stacked WR's etc...... High school football.
The numerous WR screens. Asking TE's to sprint from the RT's side...........10-12-15+ yards to make a block.
I saw one WR screen in pre-season in which our TE lined up next to RT and another TE lined up right behind him......both sprint on snap 15 yards looking to block small, quick DB's. Begging for misses or holds.

The empty sets. The empty set 2nd and 1. Its insane.
Dumbest thing ever. Eliminates many things.
1. Just removed any pass/ run guesswork from defenders.
2. Made slow to read pass/ run defenders....smarter and quicker.
3. No one is biting up to the line of scrimmage.
4. LB's can take a step back and spread out
5. Ben is not scrambling......less responsibilities for LB's
6. Created less void and pockets in the secondary for Ben to find with 7 or 8 defenders in the secondary.
7. Also seems to make Ben want to get rid of the ball quicker............quick read and toss with less room for routes to develop.
8. Eliminates the 2nd and 1 carry bay bell vs. a spread out defense. Bell almost never loses yards and has very good numbers 2nd/3rd and short.
9. Eliminates PA pass in a perfect down and distance to do so.
10. Your choice - fill in the blank_________________________.

We are all pass or all run sets. Empty set....we are passing it. Two TE and a FB....we are running it.
PA is out the window.
No deception, no trickery, no guess work for defenders.
No rubs, no picks, no moving the pocket, no roll outs, no bootlegs while Ben is still bootless.......

I can reason that this team should seldom use empty sets as three or 4 wide with Lev Bell in the backfield keeps the defense honest.
Lev can always flair out of the backfield or go in motion.
Give Bell more running room while running out of this set.

Can always start out 5 wide, empty set and motion Bell back into the backfield.
Can always line up other guys in the H-back spots or motion them into the backfield. Rogers, JU JU,....AB motioning out of the backfield.
Martavis streaking behind the LOS with the threat of a hand-off or a running start with a free release should scare the shit out of defenses. Should see it 3-4 times a game.

We get none of this.
Its like Tomlin and Haley do not watch any other offenses around the league.
And its infuriating.

I am hoping we see an entirely different offense on Sunday.
It starts today, tomorrow, Saturday...
Its starts long before kick-off.
But, not sure they get this.

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Last edited by Stosh-67 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:33 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Quote:
If we instituted more man coverage in the off season....this is the game to start.

Okay... who's got Theilen? Who's got Fleener?

I'll believe we are going somewhere if we can man cover Theilen from the slot.

Don't think we will shut him down.
At minimum he needs to be mugged, tugged, re-directed and hit hard when he does catch it.
Have to start with Hilton on him.
He will run by Gay.

And if he is coming from the slot, I would play on his outside shoulder and re-direct and trail him to the inside for one of the ILB's for another shot.
We saw some more of this in pre-season games.

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Quote:
We are all pass or all run sets. Empty set....we are passing it. Two TE and a FB....we are running it.
PA is out the window.
No deception, no trickery, no guess work for defenders.
No runs, no picks, no moving the pocket, no roll outs, no bootlegs while Ben is still bootless.......


I disagree. They have successfully passed in 2 and 3 TE sets last year. They have run often with 3-4 WR sets.
sometimes they are setting up players later in the year. They will line up for what looks like a WR screen and one of the "blocking" Wr will run a fly. They have done that before.

That being said, you can't run without the RB in the backfield

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Who's got Fleener?

I, for one, am not worried about how the Steelers will defend Fleener this weekend. Kyle Rudolph may pose a challenge, however.

Sorry, mixed up my move TEs.

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Alot of his short throws were a step behind, not in stride, tuff adjustments, etc.

Again, not really true. Two throws to Bell (at least one of which was more a ME) and one to Bryant... maybe the throw to Bryant on the deep ball (more of a bad decision) out of 40 or more throws.

How many bad throws did Tom Brady have on opening night?

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 Post subject: Re: Re watch Defensive notes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:00 pm 
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I'll take any team playing against Saints D with a grain of salt. That D will be the worst in the NFL. They have one player and fuck all else. The secondary is so bad it painful to watch. Brees is going to have put up 35 plus to win games.


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