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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:35 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben had about 28 throws less than 10 yards downfield on Sunday. He had 7 incompletions, of which at least 3 were drops (Bryant, Eli, McDonald) and one was a horrible route by Bell where Ben's throw was good.

That leaves 3/28 throws that were not accurate short throws. Here's the chart (doesn't count at least three throws negated by penalties- two screens and the throw to AB negated by Bell chop block):
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/pittsburgh-steelers/season/week/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/2017/1/pass

Again, how many inaccurate throws do you think Tom Brady had on Thursday night? 3/28 doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. Maybe I'm wrong about this.


KC's defense vs. Cleveland's defense. C'mon, man!

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben had about 28 throws less than 10 yards downfield on Sunday. He had 7 incompletions, of which at least 3 were drops (Bryant, Eli, McDonald) and one was a horrible route by Bell where Ben's throw was good.

That leaves 3/28 throws that were not accurate short throws. Here's the chart (doesn't count at least three throws negated by penalties- two screens and the throw to AB negated by Bell chop block):
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/pittsburgh-steelers/season/week/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/2017/1/pass

Again, how many inaccurate throws do you think Tom Brady had on Thursday night? 3/28 doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. Maybe I'm wrong about this.


KC's defense vs. Cleveland's defense. C'mon, man!

open short throws are open short throws, man

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:42 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Obviously wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben had about 28 throws less than 10 yards downfield on Sunday. He had 7 incompletions, of which at least 3 were drops (Bryant, Eli, McDonald) and one was a horrible route by Bell where Ben's throw was good.

That leaves 3/28 throws that were not accurate short throws. Here's the chart (doesn't count at least three throws negated by penalties- two screens and the throw to AB negated by Bell chop block):
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/pittsburgh-steelers/season/week/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/2017/1/pass

Again, how many inaccurate throws do you think Tom Brady had on Thursday night? 3/28 doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. Maybe I'm wrong about this.


KC's defense vs. Cleveland's defense. C'mon, man!

open short throws are open short throws, man


KC will be missing arguably their best defensive player. Toss up between Berry and Houston.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:44 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben had about 28 throws less than 10 yards downfield on Sunday. He had 7 incompletions, of which at least 3 were drops (Bryant, Eli, McDonald) and one was a horrible route by Bell where Ben's throw was good.

That leaves 3/28 throws that were not accurate short throws. Here's the chart (doesn't count at least three throws negated by penalties- two screens and the throw to AB negated by Bell chop block):
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/pittsburgh-steelers/season/week/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/2017/1/pass

Again, how many inaccurate throws do you think Tom Brady had on Thursday night? 3/28 doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. Maybe I'm wrong about this.


Cool graphic. Even more damning is the one of bells runs. Now that's some boring play calling.

Any rate I'm over it and ready to take on Sam fucking Bradford!


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:44 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben had about 28 throws less than 10 yards downfield on Sunday. He had 7 incompletions, of which at least 3 were drops (Bryant, Eli, McDonald) and one was a horrible route by Bell where Ben's throw was good.

That leaves 3/28 throws that were not accurate short throws. Here's the chart (doesn't count at least three throws negated by penalties- two screens and the throw to AB negated by Bell chop block):
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/pittsburgh-steelers/season/week/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/2017/1/pass

Again, how many inaccurate throws do you think Tom Brady had on Thursday night? 3/28 doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. Maybe I'm wrong about this.

I don't how I can explain it in any more detail. The pass you mention to Fleener is another example of what I'm talking about. You keep going to drops and incompletions, but I'm not only talking about those. Did Fleener not make the catch he "dropped"? Yes, but was the pass towards his back shoulder instead of "in-stride"? Yes, it sure was. The best placement of that pass would have been at his front shoulder where he could grab it with his hands and continue his path without losing any momentum. Ben does this a lot, you either don't want to see it or you want to make excuses for why it happens and they are almost always not his fault, in your mind.

Trust me, I wish I didn't have to mention his below the line play in this area, but I want near perfection from my elite, $100M, HOF QB on the simpler duties of being just that.

We obviously see this area of Ben's game completely different. I totally agree with you on Ben's over 20 yd long passing ability....he pretty damn good/great.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:46 pm 
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I just want to reiterate something from earlier on Alien. Yes he didn't have game we all wanted him to have, however, go back and look play AB drew DPI to put Steelers in position for eventual TD. Focus on Bryant on other side of the field and attention he draws. It highlights that even when he isn't lighting up the stat sheet his presence alone results in favorable match ups elsewhere. Steelers did not have that last season at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:59 pm 
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DP39-- it's arguable, I guess, but I'm not sure the right play on that throw to McDonald is to put the ball out in front of him, towards the defender. It seems a little risky for the situation. Regardless, in slow motion view, the throw missed hitting him between the 8 and the 9 by about three inches.

I fully understand the point you are making, but I think you are seeing the outliers and using it (unintentionally) to manufacture a position that ignores the vast majority of the throws and the context of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:27 pm 
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There has been a couple articles today discussing the intention to run more 4 wife sets moving forward. Thing is, it was also suggested those formations would be coupled with an empty backfield.

My initial response is I like the idea of running some more 4 wide but why take away the threat of run by using a TE?

Seems you have infinitely more option out of 4 wide with a running back than you do 4 wife and a TE.

Hopefully they aren't rigid in this approach and realize the huge benefit of running out of spread sets as well as using play action.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:36 pm 
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955876 wrote:
There has been a couple articles today discussing the intention to run more 4 wife sets moving forward.


The polygamist steeler fans approve, but caution that wife 1 is most likely the size of a lineman at this point in time,


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:38 pm 
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955876 wrote:
There has been a couple articles today discussing the intention to run more 4 wife sets moving forward. Thing is, it was also suggested those formations would be coupled with an empty backfield.

My initial response is I like the idea of running some more 4 wide but why take away the threat of run by using a TE?

Seems you have infinitely more option out of 4 wide with a running back than you do 4 wife and a TE.

Hopefully they aren't rigid in this approach and realize the huge benefit of running out of spread sets as well as using play action.

Thoughts?

Because the short passes to WRs and TE ARE run plays disguised as passes. They are just run plays not run into a box of large people.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:51 pm 
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A lil dump-off to a TE orbWR in the flat may serve as a "run" play but isn't quite the same as spreading a D and then hitting them with a RB between the tackles.

It also forces the D to account for both vs just playing pass and worrying about he flats.

Gimme one of our RBs between the tackles vs a spread out D over a pass to Jesse James in there flat.

This is where I think the coaches sabotage themselves at times.

Will see how this plays out.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:53 pm 
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dropemjaybird wrote:
955876 wrote:
There has been a couple articles today discussing the intention to run more 4 wife sets moving forward.


The polygamist steeler fans approve, but caution that wife 1 is most likely the size of a lineman at this point in time,


Ha. I didn't catch that.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:21 pm 
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955876 wrote:
dropemjaybird wrote:
955876 wrote:
There has been a couple articles today discussing the intention to run more 4 wife sets moving forward.


The polygamist steeler fans approve, but caution that wife 1 is most likely the size of a lineman at this point in time,


Ha. I didn't catch that.


The dreaded Mormon Coast offense?


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:04 pm 
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No, I didn't catch my typo.

Not sure what the Mormon Coast Offense is...


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Nevermind. That went right over my head.

West Coast Offense.

Mormon Coast Offense.

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:37 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Nevermind. That went right over my head.

West Coast Offense.

Mormon Coast Offense.

:D

Coffee, 95. Just do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:43 pm 
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I did get an early start this morning. Maybe I should up the dose to two cups.

I was sitting here like, what the hell is the Mormon Coast Offense. My mind was on polygamy.

Even funnier, I Googled it... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:01 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
955876 wrote:
Nevermind. That went right over my head.

West Coast Offense.

Mormon Coast Offense.

:D

Coffee, 95. Just do it.

Unless, of course, you're Mormon.....

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:08 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
Trust me, I wish I didn't have to mention his below the line play in this area, but I want near perfection from my elite, $100M, HOF QB on the simpler duties of being just that.

Sorry, never going to happen. Not from Ben, not from Tom Brady, not from Aaron Rogers, Drew Bree's, Matt Ryan, so on and so forth. It's just a very difficult job, and there are only a handful of human beings that can do it satisfactory, and one of them wears the Black and Gold on Sundays. You're setting a standard in your mind that is unattainable.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
DP39 wrote:
Trust me, I wish I didn't have to mention his below the line play in this area, but I want near perfection from my elite, $100M, HOF QB on the simpler duties of being just that.

Sorry, never going to happen. Not from Ben, not from Tom Brady, not from Aaron Rogers, Drew Bree's, Matt Ryan, so on and so forth. It's just a very difficult job, and there are only a handful of human beings that can do it satisfactory, and one of them wears the Black and Gold on Sundays. You're setting a standard in your mind that is unattainable.

Two things, you obviously don't watch much NFL football nor have you watch Ben closely on his short throws over the last six years. His short game accuracy (easiest part of the game) is not close to many of the top QBs in the league.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:22 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
DP39 wrote:
Trust me, I wish I didn't have to mention his below the line play in this area, but I want near perfection from my elite, $100M, HOF QB on the simpler duties of being just that.

Sorry, never going to happen. Not from Ben, not from Tom Brady, not from Aaron Rogers, Drew Bree's, Matt Ryan, so on and so forth. It's just a very difficult job, and there are only a handful of human beings that can do it satisfactory, and one of them wears the Black and Gold on Sundays. You're setting a standard in your mind that is unattainable.

Two things, you obviously don't watch much NFL football nor have you watch Ben closely on his short throws over the last six years. His short game accuracy (easiest part of the game) is not close to many of the top QBs in the league.

Let me ask you something...
1-have you ever played football? And if yes, have you ever played QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
DP39 wrote:
Sorry, never going to happen. Not from Ben, not from Tom Brady, not from Aaron Rogers, Drew Bree's, Matt Ryan, so on and so forth. It's just a very difficult job, and there are only a handful of human beings that can do it satisfactory, and one of them wears the Black and Gold on Sundays. You're setting a standard in your mind that is unattainable.

Two things, you obviously don't watch much NFL football nor have you watch Ben closely on his short throws over the last six years. His short game accuracy (easiest part of the game) is not close to many of the top QBs in the league.

Let me ask you something...
1-have you ever played football? And if yes, have you ever played QB.

Yes and yes. More importantly, I've watch/evaluated on average 20+ NFL QBs per week for about 22+ weeks out of the year for the last 20 years. Add in College QBs over that period and fewer NFL, College and HS QBs for 20 years prior to that and I feel I'm more than qualified to understand if Ben is somewhat below the line on his short passes (elite QB comparatively speaking). Also, I have seen every single snap of Ben's NFL career (some in person including his last Super Bowl, HD, and re-watching games and a lot of All 22) usually more than once.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:57 pm 
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dropemjaybird wrote:
955876 wrote:
There has been a couple articles today discussing the intention to run more 4 wife sets moving forward.


The polygamist steeler fans approve, but caution that wife 1 is most likely the size of a lineman at this point in time,


There's an easy joke about Haley and four wife sets here.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:09 pm 
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I thought Haley's kink was playing the cuckokd role.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-watch Offense
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:34 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Let me ask you something...
1-have you ever played football? And if yes, have you ever played QB.

Yes and yes. More importantly, I've watch/evaluated on average 20+ NFL QBs per week for about 22+ weeks out of the year for the last 20 years. Add in College QBs over that period and fewer NFL, College and HS QBs for 20 years prior to that and I feel I'm more than qualified to understand if Ben is somewhat below the line on his short passes (elite QB comparatively speaking). Also, I have seen every single snap of Ben's NFL career (some in person including his last Super Bowl, HD, and re-watching games and a lot of All 22) usually more than once.

Well then, you obviously are.
I just get a kick out of fanboys that have never played the game, never stood in a pocket, sitting in their recliner with a cold Bud in their hand, thinking that what they see on their 65 inch hi def is exactly what the QB is seeing. No clue of the reads, no clue of the progressions no freaking clue of the mayhem going on around him.
And just for the record, not saying I'm right, but I totally disagree that short range accuracy is the easiest part of the QBs game. I believe it's just the opposite.

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