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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Third, what are these "unrealistic standards" you're referring to? Bell is paid 150% more than the next highest paid RB. While much racism is ignored or denied, much racism is also imagined. Seems kind of moronic, IMO, to suggest that fans of a league that has been, for years, less than 20% white are looking to put black athletes in their place.


Sorry, but just because somebody is a huge Steeler fan does not mean they aren't racist. I grew up in rural Pennsylvania where they LOVE their Steelers. However, the amount of racial slurs that can fly in the local sports bar during the game really pisses me off. I have called people out on it before, then refused to acknowledge their existence when they refused to relent, or denied being racist despite the obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:23 pm 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
The difference between a Great RB like Le'Veon Bell and a good RB like James Conner is huge. You could say that for any position. Why don't we just dump Tuitt and Heyward to save some money, the backups will be just fine. That's Bullshit. Having a guy like Bell who many players and analysts say is the Best RB in the league, and at least top 3, makes a huge difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o64DIbOs9vI


We don't even know that James Conner is a "good" running back yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
The difference between a Great RB like Le'Veon Bell and a good RB like James Conner is huge. You could say that for any position. Why don't we just dump Tuitt and Heyward to save some money, the backups will be just fine. That's Bullshit. Having a guy like Bell who many players and analysts say is the Best RB in the league, and at least top 3, makes a huge difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o64DIbOs9vI


Let me say it for you slowly. With a rb, what you see in college, is what you get in the NFL, more often than not.

That is not the case for WR, see the first mike williams, or countless others before and after.

Nearly the same could be said for DL, see Tyson Alualu, and countless others before and after.


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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Location: Born and raised "Yinzer" living in OKC!
Vikings just signed a QB off their practice squad to their 53. Does it mean Bradford's gimpy or not playing??? Looking like they won't be 100% though.


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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:49 am 
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Again, who are you guys going to spend the money on that you save from letting Bell go? There's a BIG drop-off in FA from guys like Bell to guys that are available (read: neither franchise guys, nor a step belwo, are NEVER available)....that is a losing value proposition to overpay a guy who won't be a difference maker.

Second, the Steelers have been at least as good at drafting WR as they have been at RB (arguably more so). Let's talk difference makers. Finding a difference maker at RB is harder than WR.

Third, RB success depends on their OL. WR success depends on their QB, AND their OL. Not to ignore longevity, but Bell is the best player on this team...and it isn't close.

I don't know why the value is so out of whack. No way are WR worth 2X when they are easier to draft and heavily dependent on who is throwing them the ball. OK, you want to talk 2-minute drills then maybe WR is worth 25% more. Look, Emmanuel fucking Sanders signed a $6M+ deal two years ago - are you telling me he has similar value to Bell (at $8M per for top RBs). I mean, SERIOUSLY?!?!? There are at least 3-4 Sanders in every draft....there's one Bell in every 3-4 drafts.

Get off AB's nuts....we aren't having this conversation if anyone other than Ben or Rodgers is throwing him the ball. Remember Santonio Holmes? People thought the SAME THING about Holmes when he was here as they do AB now. AB is a top-10ish receiver who could make a case for all-time great playing with Ben....with a lesser QB, he might not be making a case for the Pro Bowl. I love the guy, but that's just a fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:59 am 
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Vertical Steel wrote:
Sorry, but just because somebody is a huge Steeler fan does not mean they aren't racist.


That's not what I said. What I said was that I reject that Steeler fans root or criticize players based on race. And I'm tired of hearing that bullshit on the boards when certain players are criticized, and tired of hearing the reverse bullshit when certain players aren't criticized to someone's satisfaction. Sports is the most color-blind, biggest meritocracy out there and I have 0 respect for people who use it to race bait.

I mean, if you root for the laundry then you're rooting for black....

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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:27 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Again, who are you guys going to spend the money on that you save from letting Bell go? There's a BIG drop-off in FA from guys like Bell to guys that are available (read: neither franchise guys, nor a step belwo, are NEVER available)....that is a losing value proposition to overpay a guy who won't be a difference maker.

Second, the Steelers have been at least as good at drafting WR as they have been at RB (arguably more so). Let's talk difference makers. Finding a difference maker at RB is harder than WR.

Third, RB success depends on their OL. WR success depends on their QB, AND their OL. Not to ignore longevity, but Bell is the best player on this team...and it isn't close.

I don't know why the value is so out of whack. No way are WR worth 2X when they are easier to draft and heavily dependent on who is throwing them the ball. OK, you want to talk 2-minute drills then maybe WR is worth 25% more. Look, Emmanuel fucking Sanders signed a $6M+ deal two years ago - are you telling me he has similar value to Bell (at $8M per for top RBs). I mean, SERIOUSLY?!?!? There are at least 3-4 Sanders in every draft....there's one Bell in every 3-4 drafts.

Get off AB's nuts....we aren't having this conversation if anyone other than Ben or Rodgers is throwing him the ball. Remember Santonio Holmes? People thought the SAME THING about Holmes when he was here as they do AB now. AB is a top-10ish receiver who could make a case for all-time great playing with Ben....with a lesser QB, he might not be making a case for the Pro Bowl. I love the guy, but that's just a fact.


I'm laughing at you for comparing AB to Holmes. That's rich! Well, how do we know that without AB Ben's golden years are nearly as impressive? Must be nice to have a WR to whom you can lob balls into triple coverage and to whom you can throw it short of EZ with three guys on his back with the season on the line. What we do know is that they are an all time great combo. And since AB is a Steeler and you cannot demonstrate an empirical hypothetical, saying what you posted is a fact is another reason to laugh. But but but AB sucked with Laundry and Dog Killer. Yeah, shocker.


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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:19 am 
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I agree with you Lit,. There NOBODY in the NFL fans or pundits that praised Holmes the way AB gets press. Santonio was today's Pierre Garcon in his prime or Golden Tate. They aren't in the same universe. Yes, I know but but Santonio made "the catch". AB would be an all-world player with Carson Wentz, Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Russel Wilson, etc,,,,,,,,,,list goes on and on. Yeah, Ben is good, but any QB could have thrown that pass up for grabs last week, but few receivers could have when up and got it.

Stop being a Ben jock sniffer and saying nobody would do anything without him.

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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:34 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Thank you SP, that about sums it up perfectly concerning Bell.

I know this may raise a few eyebrows as well, but I was not as impressed with Brown's game last week either for many of the same reasons that I have for Bell. When Brown and Bell are the dual centerpieces of your offense, when so much of the touches, carries, catches go to them, shouldn't they be lighting up the scoreboard?

How is this offense ever going to be elite, score over 30+ points a game, if we have guys that are great at getting yardage but not good at scoring TDs?

Yes, you can blame some of it on Haley, I suppose, but your playmakers are supposed to make big plays, score TDs, yes?

11 catches, 182 yards but 0 TDs for Brown. Offensively we scored just 14 points.

My fear is that teams are learning how to play bend but don't break with Brown and Bell. They are content to give up the yardage if they can keep the offense out of the end zone.

Which makes it all the more frustrating that Bryant and Rogers and JuJu did nothing last week. I am concerned and many of you should be too.


The bolded. Was the lack of TDs AB's fault, though? He runs the routes he's told to run. Not his job to throw the ball or call the plays. And without AB, the Steelers lose that game.

Is there a better RAC receiver in the NFL? Last year his RAC went down, but he was double covered every damn play. If Bryant finds himself, I think we will find AB getting a few more TDs.

The Steelers have been a shitty RZ team for as long as we can remember. I don't understand why you think the cause of lack of RZ TD production is all of sudden because teams are learning to play bend don't break with AB and Bell. We've been bitching about lack RZ TD production since before Bell was drafted. Certainly the ReTodd TD (i.e., a FG) meme precedes Bell. Am I wrong about this?

I am a total Bell homer. But I take AB all day every day if I have to choose one. The idea that Ben makes AB (not your idea Scunge, but an idea that gets floated every now and then here on 'Fury) is risible.

EDIT: In fact, upon further thought, RZ TD production is a complaint that goes back to the Arians days, is it not? Only two constants if that perception is accurate (but is it accurate?): Ben and Mikey T.


Yes. No mismatch TEs in the EZ, small WR that are great in the open field, but not great in the EZ, and a running game that often cannot operate near the EZ.


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 Post subject: Re: Leveon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:21 am 
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Lynch wrote:
Meh, anything north of $10,000,000 a year, for a rb today, is money better spent elsewhere on the team. I think those that take issue with Bell are more concerned about the team, than their own personal feelings. I could be wrong though.


But its a good idea to pay a center $11.1MM a year. Which position directly impacts the final outcome of the game more? Its not close yet you wont pay an important position like RB more than $10MM a year :shock: :o :roll: Remember Bell has the potential if he stays healthy to be the Steelers GOAT. Also remember if the corpulent QB retires at years end Bell can be the kind of player you keep competitive with while the new young QB matures. You think Elliot was not responsible for Prescott having a super rookie season and allowing Dallas to be a playoff team?? In fact I remember him running it down our throats and killing a last minute comeback.

Bell is the best running back in the league and I want him on my team and $10MM for his talents is a joke


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