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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:11 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Interestingly, Grimble (5.62) and James (5.63) had nearly the same yards per target last year. For comparison, Ladarius Green (8.94).

Grimble had 1 TD every 10.5 targets, James every 23.6, Green every 34.

Even in a down year last year, playing with hot garbage at QB and WR, Barnidge did 7.46 YPT & a TD every 41 attempts. In 2015, he did 8.34 YPT & 1 TD every 13.88 attempts.

I think Barnidge is no worse than a 800 yd, 70 or so catches, 3-4 TD guy in Pittsburgh 2017. I don't think James can do that.

Barnidge, in 2015, was Cleveland primary and lone reliable target. Last season, just he and Pryor. Put him in Steelers offense, and he's about the third or fourth, mostly fourth option. He's not seeing that type of production. Sorry, but I just don't see where Barnidge upgrades this offense.
He's the hot topic here right now, because he's available. Nothing more...

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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Yes he can. In the time (limited) Grimble saw on the field before his picture was on milk cartons he showed great promise. No reason to believe he can't regain the limelight again. Besides, the fact that the Steelers really have no more alternatives, I think Grimble is all but forced to play. To me this means another season of david johnson too. Unless Orndoff or Odom really make the most of this opportunity. We'll see. Training camp, OTA's and Preseason are going to be very interesting this season.


He broke his ribs vs Baltimore on 12/25 game so we went into the playoffs with just James and Johnson at TE position plus maybe Nix in certain bunch formations. I am not gonna hold broken ribs over a guy. Breathing is hard much less playing football.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Interestingly, Grimble (5.62) and James (5.63) had nearly the same yards per target last year. For comparison, Ladarius Green (8.94).

Grimble had 1 TD every 10.5 targets, James every 23.6, Green every 34.

Even in a down year last year, playing with hot garbage at QB and WR, Barnidge did 7.46 YPT & a TD every 41 attempts. In 2015, he did 8.34 YPT & 1 TD every 13.88 attempts.

I think Barnidge is no worse than a 800 yd, 70 or so catches, 3-4 TD guy in Pittsburgh 2017. I don't think James can do that.

Barnidge, in 2015, was Cleveland primary and lone reliable target. Last season, just he and Pryor. Put him in Steelers offense, and he's about the third or fourth, mostly fourth option. He's not seeing that type of production. Sorry, but I just don't see where Barnidge upgrades this offense.
He's the hot topic here right now, because he's available. Nothing more...

He doesn't have to be the best or 3rd best option-- he just has to be better than JJ & Grimble. Which he is. How many targets did Heath Miller get while playing alongside AB, Bryant, & Bell? I'll tell you: 81. Last year, with no one to take coverage away from him, Barnidge had 82 targets. He ended up with 55 catches, 612 yds, 11.1 YPC, 2 TD. In 2015, those 81 targets would have projected to 52/684 13.1 YPC with 6 TDs. That's with a QB that struggled to throw TD passes to anyone. Last year, Steelers tight ends not named Ladarius Green had 81 targets, 50/466, 9.32 YPC, 5 TDs. Can you see the upgrade potential?

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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Interestingly, Grimble (5.62) and James (5.63) had nearly the same yards per target last year. For comparison, Ladarius Green (8.94).

Grimble had 1 TD every 10.5 targets, James every 23.6, Green every 34.

Even in a down year last year, playing with hot garbage at QB and WR, Barnidge did 7.46 YPT & a TD every 41 attempts. In 2015, he did 8.34 YPT & 1 TD every 13.88 attempts.

I think Barnidge is no worse than a 800 yd, 70 or so catches, 3-4 TD guy in Pittsburgh 2017. I don't think James can do that.

Barnidge, in 2015, was Cleveland primary and lone reliable target. Last season, just he and Pryor. Put him in Steelers offense, and he's about the third or fourth, mostly fourth option. He's not seeing that type of production. Sorry, but I just don't see where Barnidge upgrades this offense.
He's the hot topic here right now, because he's available. Nothing more...

If he's on our offense and David Johnson isn't, then he upgrades it, imo. I agree, he's not a 800 yd, 70 or so catches, 3-4 TD guy in Pittsburgh 2017 without someone (maybe two) getting hurt, which is possible though.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Interestingly, Grimble (5.62) and James (5.63) had nearly the same yards per target last year. For comparison, Ladarius Green (8.94).

Grimble had 1 TD every 10.5 targets, James every 23.6, Green every 34.

Even in a down year last year, playing with hot garbage at QB and WR, Barnidge did 7.46 YPT & a TD every 41 attempts. In 2015, he did 8.34 YPT & 1 TD every 13.88 attempts.

I think Barnidge is no worse than a 800 yd, 70 or so catches, 3-4 TD guy in Pittsburgh 2017. I don't think James can do that.

Barnidge, in 2015, was Cleveland primary and lone reliable target. Last season, just he and Pryor. Put him in Steelers offense, and he's about the third or fourth, mostly fourth option. He's not seeing that type of production. Sorry, but I just don't see where Barnidge upgrades this offense.
He's the hot topic here right now, because he's available. Nothing more...


Counter to that is that teams will be gearing up to stop Brown, Bryant, Bell, and maybe JuJu first. He will get a lot of one-on-one against one of the weaker pass defending backers / safeties. Also, the Seam for the Steelers will be quite large because of the strength at X and Y. Also better QB.

Basically, it would likely be less targets but more productive ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:36 pm 
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He is better than who we would otherwise start at TE. That's the bottom line.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:43 pm 
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SBI..., if it unfolds the way folks project it to. Ju Ju isn't a TE by trade. He is a WR but now we're reading projections from folks that he'll be a better TE than anyone else on the roster? Dude has yet to play a single down in the NFL and already he's better than some player(s) with 2-3 seasons under his belt? I get it...It's not that unheard of and for the Steelers sake, If Ju Ju is deployed in that manner then I root for his/ the offenses success.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Well, the Steelers were showing interest in more of the smaller, athletic TEs like Engram and Everette. Are they real TEs or are they big WRs? Even the Giants are being coy as to what Engram is or how he will be used calling him both a TE, and an H-back.

I look around the NFL and I see teams that are blurring the preconceived notions of what a WR or what a TE is by definition. For example, Quincy Enunwa of the NY Jets, what is he exactly? Big WR? Small TE? He is 6'2" 225 and the JETs used him as both a WR and TE. If you are a big WR and have the nasty disposition and ability to block why wouldn't a team use you as a TE at times? Enunwa did that last season for the JETs and I see no reason why JuJu could not do some of the same things, yes, he is only 6'1 215 but he is only 20 and will probably add more weight and muscle.

He could be an x-factor, line up at outside WR, inside in the slot, line up as an H-back, as the second TE, the move TE. I don't get the idea that he will not get separation, JuJu is not a 4.7 guy, he ran a very nice 4.54 40 at 215. Where are all of these ILBs, OLBs and Ss that can run 4.54 and keep up with JuJu?

Maybe, just maybe, teams like the Jets with Enunwa and the Steelers with JuJu are starting a trend. It just seems like the Steelers have a genuine plan for JuJu and put a lot of thought into what type of player they needed for the offense.

Back to the original topic, yeah, I can see Grimble contributing more than the 11 catches he had last season. What really goes unnoticed with him is how often they used him as a decoy to clear the middle of the field or open things up to one side or the other. I remember one long Brown TD catch that happened because the defense was so concerned with Grimble that he drew the safety to his side of the field as he was crossing over. Grimble, now that Green is gone, is the smoothest, most dynamic TE that we have and he can show great flashes in catching the ball and making plays on the ball. He just needs consistency and opportunities. I wish they would move on from DJ Johnson. I feel like his blocking is very over-rated and he is not a great special teams player. Tell me what he does that Rosie Nix does not do better? I would rather have Nix in at FB then Johnson on the field as the 2nd TE.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Scunge always bringing it to this site. One of my favorite posters. Thank you sir for your logical and fact based comments. A player this 'new era TE' reminds me of... Shannon Sharpe.

My hope is Odom or even Orndoff eventually replace johnson. That depends on them.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Xavier Grimble play a bigger role?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:54 am 
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Yeah, I just see the Steelers over the last two seasons becoming sort of frustrated with the WRs. Everyone talks of Eli Rogers and how we shouldn't count him out, but the guy is only 185 pounds or so and really is not going to get it done in terms of blocking or breaking tackles. I saw many times over the past two seasons the team getting Hayward-Bey on the field not just to throw a deep ball to him but to have him on the field as a more physical blocker in some formations. I remember Jericho Cotchery's last season yes he did have 10 TDs and Ben loved having a bigger WR to throw to, but he was also a very good blocker.

But the way the WR core was constructed the past two seasons it is like we telegraph everything. With JuJu, I think the Steelers saw a big bodied WR who could do it all, line up outside, inside, catch passes deep, catch short, has great hands, is physical and takes pride in his blocking. I don't think it is lip service that they might think of him as being able to play H-back or a receiving TE. Imagine he is out on the field as the slot WR but then he goes in motion and lines up on the opposite side of Jesse James at TE. Sure, having a 215 pound WR line up as a TE may seem crazy but I saw the Jets do it with Quincy Enunua, and JuJu is going to be more successful at it than Rogers who is 30 pounds lighter. And just as with Enunwa lining up at TE, it can give a favorable matchup that you can exploit if you decide to throw the ball. How many times have we seen the Steelers attempt to line up an ILB on a TE in coverage and fail at it?

Jesse James will get the lion's share of snaps at TE as the starter but then I think the 2nd TE snaps will be distributed between a combination of Grimble, and then JuJu and Rosie Nix stealing away snaps that might go traditionally to the 2nd TE. That might not be a bad way to go, it offers more diversity, and options.

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