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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:29 pm 
Coates has been horrible with drops


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Broken bones in your hand(s) will make catching a pass from Ben Roethlisberger extremely challenging to say the least. I can't wait to watch camp/preseason play out. I believe there is going to be some eye opening playmaking from guys. SBI

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 12:36 am 
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Scunge-- the Steelers are nothing if not predictable as hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:08 am 
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You mean predictable like taking a long snapper in the sixth round?

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:01 am 
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Let's put it this way: predictable in terms of almost always drafting day 3 to fill the training camp roster and not really looking for diamonds in the rough. I get the feeling we'll find out that Warren is retiring or has a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:26 am 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
OT here... but what's the need to run these punch drunk former players up to make these picks. Half of them can barely string three words together.
We had the guy making the Jackson Jacksonvilles pick.
The guy picking for the New York J-E-T-E Jets.
The New York football world Champions. WTF???
The former Cowboy shouting down the Iggles fans.
And ex Raider Willie Brown mumbling some incomprehensible BS...twice!

It was very entertaining Jobus.

I heard from one of them..........."with the 256th pick in the draft"
Was actually 2nd round and 56th pick.
I also heard..."In Two Hundred and seventeen NFL draft"

On the other hand....Loved Drew Pearson.lol

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:30 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Let's put it this way: predictable in terms of almost always drafting day 3 to fill the training camp roster and not really looking for diamonds in the rough. I get the feeling we'll find out that Warren is retiring or has a problem.


Yet they have one of the best diamonds in later rounds in the last ten years.


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:54 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
AB's first season: 16-167 10.4 avg. 26 Lng. 0TD
Rogers first season: 48-594 12.4 avg. 39 Lng. 3TD 1 rush att. 6 yds. 6.0 avg. 0 rush TD

I agree I think the 5th spot (if they decide to keep 5) is down to Coates vs Hunter. I give Coates the advantage for ST's play.

Colbert has basically never signed a veteran free agent that didn't make the 53.

DATE POS PLAYER PRIOR TEAM G GS CONTRACT
2/14/2000 NT Kimo von Oelhoffen Bengals 95 94 4-years, $10M
2/22/2000 DE Chris Sullivan Patriots 15 2 3-years, $4.73M
2/28/2000 G Rich Tylski Jaguars 28 26 3-years, $3.24M
2/28/2000 QB Kent Graham Giants 14 5 3-years, $5.1M
5/30/2000 S Brent Alexander Panthers 64 64 2-years, $1.29M
3/8/2001 C Jeff Hartings Detroit 91 89 6-years, $24.25M
3/23/2001 S Mike Logan Jaguars 73 17 3-years, $3.1M
4/20/2001 LB Mike Jones Rams 21 1 3-years, $2.75M
3/25/2002 K Todd Peterson Chiefs 10 0 4-years, $3.975M
4/5/2002 LB James Farrior Jets 154 154 3-years, $5.4M
3/5/2003 LB Clint Kriewaldt Detroit 74 2 3-years, $2.38M
3/17/2003 T Todd Fordham Jaguars 11 6 3-years, $2.38M
3/6/2004 P Chris Gardocki Browns 48 0 5-years, $6.3M
3/9/2004 RB Duce Staley Eagles 16 11 5-years, $14M
3/10/2004 DT Travis Kirschke 49ers 92 18 4-years, $6.41M
5/26/2004 CB Willie Williams Seahawks 20 11 1-year, $760K
3/8/2005 WR Cedrick Wilson 49ers 47 14 4-years, $8M
3/14/2006 S Ryan Clark Redskins 80 78 4-years, $7M
3/16/2006 DE Rodney Bailey Seahawks 12 0 1-year, $625K
3/10/2007 C Sean Mahan Buccaneers 16 16 5-years, $17M
4/17/2007 DT Nick Eason Browns 55 11 1-year, $510K
3/3/2008 RB Mewelde Moore Vikings 59 4 3-years, $4.95M
3/12/2008 LB Keyaron Fox Chiefs 45 3 1-year, $645K
4/24/2009 CB Keiwan Ratliff Colts 9 0 1-year, $620K
5/1/2009 WR Shaun McDonald Lions 4 0 1-year, $620K
3/8/2010 WR Arnaz Battle 49ers 25 0 3-years, $3.975M
3/8/2010 T Jonathan Scott Bills 29 15 1-year, $540K
3/8/2010 S Will Allen Buccaneers 30 0 3-years, $4.495M
3/15/2010 LB Larry Foote Lions 31 5 3-years, $9.3M
4/10/2012 TE Leonard Pope Chiefs 16 2 1-year, $725K
3/13/2013 QB Bruce Gradkowski Bengals 1 0 3-years, $4.95M
4/26/2013 RB LaRod Stephens-Howling Cardinals 1 0 1-year, $780K
3/11/2014 S Mike Mitchell Panthers 32 32 5-years, $25M
3/14/2014 DT Cam Thomas Chargers 32 10 2-years, $4M
3/24/2014 LB Arthur Moats Bills 32 20 1-year, $795K
3/28/2014 RB LeGarrette Blount Patriots 11 0 2-years, $3.85M
4/2/2014 WR Darrius Heyward-Bey Colts 32 5 1-year, $795K


Which makes sense....why sign a guy if you are even remotely gonna cut him ?

So its AB JuJu Bryant Hunter with DHB Rogers Ayers Hamilton Coates all fighting for 1 spot. Wow. Id really like them to decide this is the year to keep 6 at WR


Also means they have made up their mind on keeping these guys............ before the draft, before camp, before competition, pre-season games, etc......
On the other hand, most of those names have contributed to the 53........
Which means they like Hunter.
I think Hunter was certainly MB insurance and/or Coates/DHB replacement

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:09 am 
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Technically, didn't Steven Johnson not make the 53 last year? Wasn't it only because of injuries, Dupree, etc, that he was brought back? I remember people saying Dirty Red, Tyler Matakevich had no chance of making the roster but he did make the original 53 over free agent signee Steven Johnson.

It may be a technicality, a loop hole but there B2B, I found one free agent who was cut just last year ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:18 am 
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Quote:
I've said this before, and I might be wrong. But MB isn't going to walk into camp as #2. I personally think JuJu or Coates will take #2 until MB proves his trust and worth. Ayers and Rogers are AB clones. And then there's Hunter, who is a mystery to me.


It will be a battle though.
I agree COS.
Think Tomlin will make him earn it....especially in camp.
Why throw him right in with the #1's when there is weeks of camp and 4 pre-season games.
On top of a process that he needs to go thru.
Earn team mates trust, coaches trust, WR group and of course Bens trust.

Throwing him in right with the number ones would make it easy for him.
This could needs to continue putting in the hard work that it looks like he has been doing.
Now he needs to do it with his guys.

Go MB
Stay good.
Stay strong.
Last chance for you and you families future.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:19 am 
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If they go into camp with the depth chart from last season, which they tend to do, at wr it looks like: AB, Eli Rodgers, Hamilton, Ayers then probably DHB.

Clearly JUju will make it unless he assaults a st Vincent nun. MB very likely but I still won't believe it till I see him on opening day.

I think Eli is a lock too. He was effectively the #2 for much of last year and while that is a stretch for him he didn't get blown off the field either

Justin hunter I totally forgot about. Not saying he won't replace one of the guys. I'll put it this way though if hunter is the convention as starting day 1 something didn't go well.


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:34 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Let's put it this way: predictable in terms of almost always drafting day 3 to fill the training camp roster and not really looking for diamonds in the rough. I get the feeling we'll find out that Warren is retiring or has a problem.


Wexell has already reported this (without behind-the-paywall details, but said it on Twitter).

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
I think realistically that Brown, Bryant and JuJu are locks. Then it is a free for all at that point.

Coates is entering the 3rd year of his 4 year contract. He got his hand mangled but for me that is not the biggest concern. He is just so mechanical and has no instincts. His hands in terms of catching the ball was a problem before the injury. I will make this observation of a difference between Coates and JuJu. I saw too many plays where Coates allows the CB to reroute him where he is dangerously close to the sideline. Coates may use his speed to get separation but he is so close to the sideline that he doesn't give Ben much room to throw the ball to him. With JuJu in college I saw a player who was innately aware of his surroundings, where he was on the field. I saw him get deep and not get pinched in along the sidelines. He gave his QB options in throwing the ball deep, in placing the ball. Coates was a 3rd round pick but that does not mean much if he fails to step up in training camp and in the preseason. I can see him being cut.

Darius Hayward-Bey. I am ready to just cut him right now. Hurt last year, missed a lot of time and not quite as effective on special teams. He is now on the wrong side of 30 and it gets to the point where you just have to move on from a vet to promote growth and development of the younger WRs.

Rogers did okay for his first season as the slot WR but he was disappointing in that he just does not have the speed and quickness to get much yards after the catch. Maybe he can improve that with more playing experience and he has some value in being a reserve punt returner. I see him as being the 4th WR.

I think Cobi Hamilton and Demarcus Ayers are done. I think the only reason that they were on the roster is because of injuries. Bryant suspended, Coates with the injury, Wheaton ended up on IR, Bey missed a lot of time with injury as well. All of that resulted in both Hamilton and Ayers being on the roster but now with Bryant returning and the drafting of JuJu? Bye Bye.

So, Brown, Bryant, JuJu and Rogers.

I see it being a 3 man competition for 2 spots between Coates, Bey and Hunter.

Hunter has never really had a deep ball thrower like Ben throwing to him. Even so, he has 78 catches and 12 TDs good for 16.7 avg. 7 of those catches were over 40+ yards. He just has never played special teams, like at all, so that is the big downside to him. Maybe he realizes that he has to play special teams and thrive at it to continue his NFL career

But if Coates really just shows poorly as a WR in the preseason I can see them keeping Bey for ST and Hunter as that vertical deep threat.

If Bey gets banged up again or they feel he is slipping or that Coates can be that STer, then maybe they keep Coates and Hunter.

If Bey and Coates play well with all the competition then maybe they keep both and cut Hunter. We would only be out $30,000 which is what his signing bonus was.



Had JuJu in my mock Scunge.
A round later..............but love this kid.
Kid is only 20............does not turn 21 until November. Wow.
6'-1" and 215 will be 225-230 by the time he is 22/23.
Yes, he will be that tuff, box-out, out muscle, 3rd down battling, redzone target that Ward and Cotch were and that Ben has been missing.

Love how he tracks the ball, adjusts his routes, moves his body around defenders as the pass is coming, etc....
On top of what we see..........he seems to LOVE football. Big heart, played with a plate in his hand a weak after fracturing it.

I think heart and smarts was a big theme of our 2017 draft.
I've documented several times over the last year............ on the lengthy list of Steelers draft picks under Tomlin, that lacked smarts, hearts, football brains as well as players who put football as #2 in their lives.

Watt, Ju Ju and Conner will all be a huge part of reversing that trend under Tomlin.

I see the WR pecking order by Labor day as being

AB
MB
Ju Ju
Rogers
( 48/594 3td is right up there with any first year/rookie Steeler WR ) at 24, RAC will come with experience and confidence.

Clearly the top 4

Hunter
Coates
DHB
Hamilton
Ayers

I think they keep 6 WR's this year.

Hunter
Justin Hunter has had the following QB's throwing him the ball...................Fitzpatrick, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenburger, Mariotta rookie season, Tyrod Taylor.
Has played 4 years on three teams under 6 different head coaches...........yes, SIX head coaches and who knows how many different WR coaches.
With all that said, he is only 25 and in only 18 career starts he has 12 TD's from that mess above and almost 17 ypc.

He comes to the hallmark of stability, under the wings of one of the best WR coaches in Football in Mann.
And now will have future HOF BB throwing him the ball.
Out of the spotlight and only asked to be a #4, #5 or #6 and be ready to step on the field if injury occurs.
Like B2B says, they sign them......... they make the 53.
6'-4" 200+.is a plus , plus.
If he played ST, he would be a lock to make 53. Maybe the thought of being on his 4th team turns him into a ST contributor.

Coates.
Yes, this site was forgetting all about MB early on as Coates made plays and hit a couple of HR's. 2 to be exact.
Clumsy to me. Could not catch a clean screen.
Not even close to what MB can do in short distances / screens and in the open field.
Does not adjust to the ball in the air.
What does his finger look like now?. Did he get it fixed ?

My son and I watched him at St. Vincent his rookie year. The one thing I took from it was how he walked back to huddles after plays, even after long routes.
Which is probably why I also saw someone post about his issues with the coaching staff.
Yes he plays special teams. ...But think he gets edged by Hunter.

DHB
Tomlin loves his vet guys. DHB is one of them.
But i can not see how he makes this roster barring injury or stupidity.
And for all the ST talk of Bey, I just can not recall him making many big plays on ST's.
I see Hunter having the edge on Bey as well.

Hamilton and Ayers
Hamilton was a pleasant surprise. Grabbed some TD's.
But is a very long shot too make the 53..as is Ayers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:20 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised if they kept 6 WRs this year.

I think DHB might be a casualty in the last cut.

I think part of AB's new contract (as the team sees it) is he becomes the unanimous leader/mentor in the WR room. Which means DHB may be expendable.

I see Justin Hunter (if he's matured enough) as Tombert's next DHB project.

They drafted a lot of mature leader types this year and I think they expect them to step up in the very near future and probably not need the same hand holding other less mature draft picks might have needed.

I think the time has come (this year and next) to lose some old leadership and let the new step up.

RB's - Time for Bell to lead his room
WR's - AB with mo-money and mo-responsibility
DL - Cam, and I think Tuitt becomes more vocal
LB's - Deebo, and it's Shazier's time
DB's - Mitchell, and I think they want Cockrell to be a temp leader if Gay is gone.

Just my thoughts...

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Being a leader isn't just how you perform...it's about how you carry and conduct yourself. I don't see AB or Bell as ideal "leader" types. Much the same way I never bought in to the Hines Ward as a leader bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Being a leader isn't just how you perform...it's about how you carry and conduct yourself. I don't see AB or Bell as ideal "leader" types. Much the same way I never bought in to the Hines Ward as a leader bullshit.


While I agree with you on "being a leader" (and you may not see them as such), my guess is the PS want/hope them to take over those roles in those rooms.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Late to comment...

but I love it that we took a WR in the 2nd round.

As many have stated, we can't trust Martavis, and who knows with Coates.

Need that 2nd guy to really open things up.

Digging the skillset this kid can add to the team at the wr postion.


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:55 am 
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I see a few dooming Ayers to the Turk but I liked what I saw. If he progresses I'm betting he'll be a better slot than Rogers.


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:05 pm 
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They've set up some interesting competition at WR & CB.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:09 pm 
bradshaw2ben wrote:
They've set up some interesting competition at WR & CB.


Yep


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:45 am 
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steelclan wrote:
I see a few dooming Ayers to the Turk but I liked what I saw. If he progresses I'm betting he'll be a better slot than Rogers.


I think Ayers has a better shot at making the final roster than Eli. Ayers is little quicker and looked slightly stouter. Plus, Eli was reportedly in the Tomlin doghouse several times last year for various reasons (e.g. being late to meetings).

My prediction:

AB
Bryant
JuJu
Ayers
Coates (or possibly Hunter)
DHB (mostly for special teams)


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:50 am 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
steelclan wrote:
I see a few dooming Ayers to the Turk but I liked what I saw. If he progresses I'm betting he'll be a better slot than Rogers.


I think Ayers has a better shot at making the final roster than Eli. Ayers is little quicker and looked slightly stouter. Plus, Eli was reportedly in the Tomlin doghouse several times last year for various reasons (e.g. being late to meetings).

My prediction:

AB
Bryant
JuJu
Ayers
Coates (or possibly Hunter)
DHB (mostly for special teams)


While I agree with your premise that it likely comes down to Ayers vs. Eli and Coates vs. Hunter, I think Rogers has a decided advantage in his contest.

I love what Ayers brings to the table, but he is going to have to have a mind blowing camp AND be really special in the preseason contests to knock Eli Rogers off the roster. Rogers was simply too good last year (doghouse or not, he made several plays).

Coates vs. Hunter should be very, very interesting to watch, also. Coates has far less of an advantage vs. Hunter and I hope his hand is healed up. He has the dropsies this summer and Coates' ass will be off the roster.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:33 am 
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I'd cut bait with Coates in favor of Eli or Ayers. Outside of him being able to blaze, he can't catch for shit. Almost Sweed bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:05 am 
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KC wrote:
While I agree with your premise that it likely comes down to Ayers vs. Eli and Coates vs. Hunter, I think Rogers has a decided advantage in his contest.

I love what Ayers brings to the table, but he is going to have to have a mind blowing camp AND be really special in the preseason contests to knock Eli Rogers off the roster. Rogers was simply too good last year (doghouse or not, he made several plays).

Coates vs. Hunter should be very, very interesting to watch, also. Coates has far less of an advantage vs. Hunter and I hope his hand is healed up. He has the dropsies this summer and Coates' ass will be off the roster.


Is Ayers eligible for the practice squad? If so, that could also be a factor favoring Rogers.

Rogers made some clutch plays last year (foremost among them in the final drive in the Christmas Ravens game), but he was a non-factor in too many games for me to be particularly enthusiatic about him. He's nice to have around as a 4 or a 5, but I think he's subpar as a 3. He is just not physical enough. He doesn't fight for contested passes very well, and he hears footsteps too often (plus he had a killer fumble in the AFCC game). Given JuJu's skill set, I think JuJu was drafted to replace Rogers as slot more so than Bryant (or Coates) on the outside. As between Ayers and Rogers, I think that Ayers has the higher ceiling talent wise.


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 Post subject: Re: Ju Ju
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:03 am 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
KC wrote:
While I agree with your premise that it likely comes down to Ayers vs. Eli and Coates vs. Hunter, I think Rogers has a decided advantage in his contest.

I love what Ayers brings to the table, but he is going to have to have a mind blowing camp AND be really special in the preseason contests to knock Eli Rogers off the roster. Rogers was simply too good last year (doghouse or not, he made several plays).

Coates vs. Hunter should be very, very interesting to watch, also. Coates has far less of an advantage vs. Hunter and I hope his hand is healed up. He has the dropsies this summer and Coates' ass will be off the roster.


Is Ayers eligible for the practice squad? If so, that could also be a factor favoring Rogers.

Rogers made some clutch plays last year (foremost among them in the final drive in the Christmas Ravens game), but he was a non-factor in too many games for me to be particularly enthusiatic about him. He's nice to have around as a 4 or a 5, but I think he's subpar as a 3. He is just not physical enough. He doesn't fight for contested passes very well, and he hears footsteps too often (plus he had a killer fumble in the AFCC game). Given JuJu's skill set, I think JuJu was drafted to replace Rogers as slot more so than Bryant (or Coates) on the outside. As between Ayers and Rogers, I think that Ayers has the higher ceiling talent wise.


I agree with you- Rogers is an ok player and all but he just disappeared too much for the playing time he got

I'm on record as a HUUUUGE Ayers fan so whatever shakes out I'm really hoping he makes it

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